FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #13

[flgrl017]

Yes. Try Unconcluded 11. Sorry, didn't write down timestamps for the following:

There was no working security system in Jennifer's condo. It did have an alarm panel, but she didn't have a code or the ability to arm and disarm it. (It wasn't hooked up). There was a panic cord next to her bed which would call or notify 911 in an emergency. It was not pulled.

In episode 6 it’s around the 6 minute mark. I listed to it after making that post earlier. It sounds like the system was installed since they had the panel on the wall, but she just needed a code for it. I ran into the same situation last time I moved.
It was probably logging events even though Jennifer didn’t have a code. The other units probably were too even if they were vacant. I believe they log events and store a certain amount whether or not they’re being monitored.

 

[IDK]

I've posted John Lordan's videos here and this is a fairly new one. While most of it is details I've heard before I did learn one or two things about suspicions the former detective and the PI have about the case.

Thanks for sharing—this is a great video.

 

[annpats]

There was no working security system in Jennifer's condo. It did have an alarm panel, but she didn't have a code or the ability to arm and disarm it. (It wasn't hooked up). There was a panic cord next to her bed which would call or notify 911 in an emergency. It was not pulled.

That's sad, especially if she told family she didn't feel safe there.
The alarm wasn't working because the complex was still new and hadn't been connected yet?

Edited to add: just saw it was because she didn't have a code for it. (That really should've been provided on move in day, and she should have pushed for it every day).

But it still may not have saved her, as I don't think she was abducted straight from inside her apartment.

 

[Truth Prevails]

That's sad, especially if she told family she didn't feel safe there.
The alarm wasn't working because the complex was still new and hadn't been connected yet?

Edited to add: just saw it was because she didn't have a code for it. (That really should've been provided on move in day, and she should have pushed for it every day).

But it still may not have saved her, as I don't think she was abducted straight from inside her apartment.

I think it was mostly due to the renovations that were underway. At that time they were even leaving the gate up at the entrance--24/7. There was no security anywhere in the complex, or very little if you want to call the panic cord such.

Keys to all the condos had been stolen. The locks had never been changed since people rented the unit prior to it being sold as a condo. That whole place was a mess.

It is sad. Every bit of it. Jennifer had never even lived alone before she moved into the Mosaic and I don't think she was comfortable living alone. I don't think she was prepared at all for what she faced there on any level.

No, a working security system would not have saved her, IMO. However, if she had never moved in there in the first place things could very well have turned out differently.

 

[annpats]

It is sad. Every bit of it. Jennifer had never even lived alone before she moved into the Mosaic and I don't think she was comfortable living alone. I don't think she was prepared at all for what she faced there on any level.

No, a working security system would not have saved her, IMO. However, if she had never moved in there in the first place things could very well have turned out differently.

I wish she'd had the strength to not move in until everything was up and running 100%, or better yet, just move out and rent somewhere else, even temporarily.

I'm convinced one (or some) of the construction workers there took advantage of the no security gate, stolen keys, single lone female situation.

As illegal migrant day-wage workers, they would have been under the radar anyway.
They could just leave, no SS cards, no trace, no ID..... and if they didn't turn up the next day, I'm sure no-one would've batted an eyelid. The boss would just recruit new ones and the perps would just move on to a new city or state.

And in Florida, Hispanic men can blend in easily. They're not going to stick out or look unusual.

MOO.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I wish she'd had the strength to not move in until everything was up and running 100%, or better yet, just move out and rent somewhere else, even temporarily.

I'm convinced one (or some) of the construction workers there took advantage of the no security gate, stolen keys, single lone female situation.

As illegal migrant day-wage workers, they would have been under the radar anyway.
They could just leave, no SS cards, no trace, no ID..... and if they didn't turn up the next day, I'm sure no-one would've batted an eyelid. The boss would just recruit new ones and the perps would just move on to a new city or state.

And in Florida, Hispanic men can blend in easily. They're not going to stick out or look unusual.

MOO.

It could have been anyone, really. They never found a clear motive, if anyone even bothered to look for one.

Jennifer wasn't a likely victim of sexual assault. For one thing, she didn't live her life that way. And most sexual assault victims are found discarded in a ditch or the woods or left right at the scene.

Why was Jennifer never found? Was she missed in the searches or did something more sinister occur? Why take the risk of moving her vehicle?

I want so desperately for Jennifer to be found. I don't believe that will ever happen unless they are willing to look at the actual events leading to her disappearance without using preconceived ideas to interpret the events.

The only other hope I have is that she is found by accident, but the chances of that happening now seem slim. I hope I'm wrong.

I know it's a cliche but someone has to know something. There is information out there somewhere that everyone is missing.

 

[EllaMinnowP]

Jennifer wasn't a likely victim of sexual assault. For one thing, she didn't live her life that way. And most sexual assault victims are found discarded in a ditch or the woods or left right at the scene.

Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

I would like to know what you mean by saying “she didn’t live her life that way”.
I’m a little nauseated and trying to remain calm while asking for some clarification, and hoping you don’t mean what you appear to have stated here.

Sexual assault happens to people from all walks of life including wealthy, poor, little children, college students, hardworkers, elderly, disabled, church members, and it even happens to middle aged housewives in their own home. It happens to the pretty, the plain, and the “unattractive”. It can happen while one is wearing jeans and tshirt or a business dress just as easily as it can happen to the scantily clad. I could go on…

To any other survivors who are reading here, what happened to you is NO fault of yours!

I agree that someone knows what happened to Jennifer. I hope I’m still around when her case is finally solved.

 

[annpats]

Jennifer wasn't a likely victim of sexual assault.

I think she probably was. Otherwise, why else go after a lone female?

I suppose it depends on whom you think is the perpetrator. I think one (or more) of the construction workers may have done it, and that's why I think sexual assault likely. Combined with murder.

I don't really see what any other motive could have been for them?
Money? No.
Revenge? No.
Jealousy? No.

She was living alone and the construction workers knew it AND had the opportunity to do the crime, they knew security was lax and knew when she was in or out.

 

[flgrl017]

I think she probably was. Otherwise, why else go after a lone female?

I suppose it depends on whom you think is the perpetrator. I think one (or more) of the construction workers may have done it, and that's why I think sexual assault likely. Combined with murder.

I don't really see what any other motive could have been for them?
Money? No.
Revenge? No.
Jealousy? No.

She was living alone and the construction workers knew it AND had the opportunity to do the crime, they knew security was lax and knew when she was in or out.

Why would the workers pick Tuesday morning? It was light outside. They were supposed to be working. The gardeners showed up like clockwork at 7:30 am on Tuesdays. Tuesday seems like an unlikely day to attempt this if you know the routine of the property because of the gardeners.

I also don’t think we know enough about Jennifer to answer no to those questions. Moo.

 

[annpats]

Why would the workers pick Tuesday morning? It was light outside. They were supposed to be working. The gardeners showed up like clockwork at 7:30 am on Tuesdays. Tuesday seems like an unlikely day to attempt this if you know the routine of the property because of the gardeners.

I also don’t think we know enough about Jennifer to answer no to those questions. Moo.

Why? Because perpetrators pick any time of the day or night that is convenient to them, but also when they're most likely to be sure of getting away with their crime. Tuesday morning was their best time. Here's why:

The Jennifer Keese perps wouldn't strike at night as they had no reason to be at the condo complex then!

They showed up at 07.30am which is just about the time Jennifer gets ready and leaves for work.

A towel in her apartment was wet, her make up was out, a choice of work clothes had been laid out on her bed.

It happened in the morning when they were there at the condos.

It didn't happen on Monday morning as the construction men/gardners didn't work Sunday and they weren't there to see when/if she got back from her trip.

No point rushing it. When she was definitely back from her trip on Monday, they saw that, made plans, and struck first thing Tuesday before she went to work. I think one of them followed her out to her car and practically carjacked her.

MOO.

 

[flgrl017]

Perpetrators pick any time of the day or night that is convenient to them.

The Jennifer Keese perps wouldn't strike at night as they had no reason to be at the condo complex then!

They showed up at 07.30am which is just about the time Jennifer gets ready and leaves for work.

A towel in her apartment was wet, her make up was out, a choice work clothes had been laid out on her bed.

It happened in the morning when they were there.

It didn't happen on Monday morning as the construction men/gardners didn't work Sunday and they weren't there to see when/if she got back from her trip.

When she was definitely back, on Monday, they saw that and struck first thing Tuesday before she went to work.

MOO.

I would imagine it would be easier to pull this off when you’re not on the clock. They could have waited until she got home and acted then. Wouldn’t it make more sense to do it when you’re not on the clock and it’s dark plus pick a day when the gardeners aren’t swarming around.

She also tried on her work clothes at night according to Rob. Perhaps the clothes on the bed meant she didn’t sleep in it. Perhaps the towel was wet from the night before. Towels can stay wet for days depending on their thickness and how wet it was originally (which we have no way of knowing). It could have been sopping wet and that’s why it was hung over the washer. Perhaps she took a shower that night and her makeup was out from that. We just don’t know. All the evidence that we know of could go either way.

 

[annpats]

All the evidence that we know of could go either way.

Correct. I'm only giving my thoughts and theory on it. Other may vary or be completely different.

The construction workers probably wouldn't have hwd their own cars. They are poor day-laborers with no legal right to be in the country.
They would probably be bussed to the site as a group.
They weren't able to do it at night as they had no way of getting to the condo complex from where they lived in Orlando. Plus, someone (a girlfriend, room-mate, etc.) may have wondered where they've gone.

Plus to do it in the morning, one of more of the other workers could have covered for the perp. I don't necessarily think it was one person involved, two or more could have been involved in covering for the main perp.
And those types don't squeal on each other - or to the police.

 

[JnRyan]

I think she probably was. Otherwise, why else go after a lone female?

I suppose it depends on whom you think is the perpetrator. I think one (or more) of the construction workers may have done it, and that's why I think sexual assault likely. Combined with murder.

I don't really see what any other motive could have been for them?
Money? No.
Revenge? No.
Jealousy? No.

She was living alone and the construction workers knew it AND had the opportunity to do the crime, they knew security was lax and knew when she was in or out.

I don't know whether Jennifer was the victim of a sexual assault. To put it another way, the abductor(s) could have failed in that she died during the attempt. BUT I believe a sexual motive was at the top of the list in any event.

 

[flgrl017]

Correct. I'm only giving my thoughts and theory on it. Other may vary or be completely different.

The construction workers probably wouldn't have hwd their own cars. They are poor day-laborers with no legal right to be in the country.
They would probably be bussed to the site as a group.
They weren't able to do it at night as they had no way of getting to the condo complex from where they lived in Orlando. Plus, someone (a girlfriend, room-mate, etc.) may have wondered where they've gone.

Plus to do it in the morning, one of more of the other workers could have covered for the perp. I don't necessarily think it was one person involved, two or more could have been involved in covering for the main perp.
And those types don't squeal on each other - or to the police.

It would be risky to rely on the rest of the work crew covering for you. My husband’s construction workers get mad at each other and tell on each other all the time. They remind me of children.

Also if the worker didn’t have access to a vehicle, then what did they use? The family has said that they don’t believe she was placed inside the car after she was abducted. I truly believe there was another vehicle used in this crime.

 

[JnRyan]

So FDLE is supposedly handling the case. Then I wonder why when I search the Florida Crime Information Center under Missing Persons I can't find her case.

Missing Persons

 

[flgrl017]

So FDLE is supposedly handling the case. Then I wonder why when I search the Florida Crime Information Center under Missing Persons I can't find her case.

Missing Persons

Jennifer Kesse: Family and FDLE continue efforts to find answers

The investigation from almost 17 years ago was given to the FDLE for a cold-case review earlier this month.

www.wftv.com

Lee Massie New Special Agent in Charge of FDLE Orlando

www.fdle.state.fl.us

Not sure. The head of the Orlando division said they were taking it. FBI didn’t look at it long when they had it. Drew has made comments they wanted 5-7 people spoken to. I would assume these people were people that wouldn’t speak to the Kesse team so I doubt they spoke to FDLE. You can’t make people talk. I’m not sure how long it will take to retest the forensics. It’s a high probability that the hair and prints have nothing to do with the crime anyways. I would assume they had the prints in the database all along just in case there is a hit. Even if there is a hit on the prints, if the person could explain away their presence then they have nothing. The hair could have been transferred to her car. I get hair on my clothing sometimes. We won’t hear anything until there is an arrest. I don’t think they’ll make an arrest unless they find her. Reading between the lines they think she is buried somewhere west of the Wftv station, but I could be making too much out of Bill Moore’s comments. Truth Prevails is right. We need to find motive. That’s the best chance of narrowing down who took her and figuring out where they would dispose of her. I know some people don’t like the pings but they could also see if any other phones were pinging with hers Monday night. Maybe that phone continued pinging after hers went dead. I think that’s how they made an arrest in the Jessica Chambers case, if I remember correctly.

 

[humblegroundxx]

I think everyone saying "off the clock" or "in the night" was the best time - obviously is giving any criminal(s) too much structure. If you've got a plan, and everyone saw you at work, especially on a large site, why would you not take advantage of potentially slipping away for a moment during the day? You're supposed to be busy, you could have run to the hardware store for all your coworkers knew - literally on the clock if it was any of the workers would have been the best time.

 

[flgrl017]

I think everyone saying "off the clock" or "in the night" was the best time - obviously is giving any criminal(s) too much structure. If you've got a plan, and everyone saw you at work, especially on a large site, why would you not take advantage of potentially slipping away for a moment during the day? You're supposed to be busy, you could have run to the hardware store for all your coworkers knew - literally on the clock if it was any of the workers would have been the best time.

IMO this crime is going to take more than a moment. I would believe someone could slip away from work for a moment if they has found evidence and/or even her body on site. This crime was very clean though. The police detective has described it as “as close to a vanishing as he has ever seen” and a “targeted preplanned attack” so I think there was a lot of structure for the criminal that did this. Whoever did this needed time to commit the crime, clean up the scene, clean up themselves, drop the car off, and dispose of her. If they didn’t do everything themselves then they would have to rely on an accomplice.

Large commercial construction projects have more structure than people think. My husband is high up in a commercial construction company. A worker would never slip away and give the excuse they were going to the store. Purchasing would be done by specific people such as the project manager and/or the foreman. If a general laborer said they randomly went to a store during the timeframe this crime could have been committed then it should have sent off red flags with their superior.

For me it has helped to break down the Mosaic site. The backside is where the large project was going on and that wasn’t right beside her building. Her building was already built. The maintenance workers were the main workers for it, and they are the crew that has been discussed for years. That’s the crew that Ben and Chino were on. This was a small crew of 7 members, and we know 2 of them passed polys. More could have passed them, but we don’t know. The manager stated they were all at work. This is in the police report. The police have said that the Mosaic maintenance crew were all readily available for questioning.

If we have a Point A to Point B (Point A being her condo door and Point B being her car) then who is most likely to cross paths with her? More importantly, where do they go once they kidnap her? There are very few options in this scenario. There were 4 other condos on her hall. If he fought her up a flight of steps there were 5 condos. If he fought her down a flight of steps there were 4 condos. If you leave that side of the building you have to a fight Jennifer across a open grass lawn to a vehicle or another building on the complex (Post 435 of this thread breaks down her building layout). If you attack her at her car, then you either put her in your vehicle or use hers. I don’t feel like her car was used so then you are left with the perp’s vehicle. If the perp used his vehicle, then you have to explain how her car was moved. Her car was most likely moved at least 2x since it wasn’t there when the manager checked at 11:30 am.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[Ozoner]

IMO this crime is going to take more than a moment. I would believe someone could slip away from work for a moment if they has found evidence and/or even her body on site. This crime was very clean though. The police detective has described it as “as close to a vanishing as he has ever seen” and a “targeted preplanned attack” so I think there was a lot of structure for the criminal that did this. Whoever did this needed time to commit the crime, clean up the scene, clean up themselves, drop the car off, and dispose of her. If they didn’t do everything themselves then they would have to rely on an accomplice.

Large commercial construction projects have more structure than people think. My husband is high up in a commercial construction company. A worker would never slip away and give the excuse they were going to the store. Purchasing would be done by specific people such as the project manager and/or the foreman. If a general laborer said they randomly went to a store during the timeframe this crime could have been committed then it should have sent off red flags with their superior.

For me it has helped to break down the Mosaic site. The backside is where the large project was going on and that wasn’t right beside her building. Her building was already built. The maintenance workers were the main workers for it, and they are the crew that has been discussed for years. That’s the crew that Ben and Chino were on. This was a small crew of 7 members, and we know 2 of them passed polys. More could have passed them, but we don’t know. The manager stated they were all at work. This is in the police report. The police have said that the Mosaic maintenance crew were all readily available for questioning.

If we have a Point A to Point B (Point A being her condo door and Point B being her car) then who is most likely to cross paths with her? More importantly, where do they go once they kidnap her? There are very few options in this scenario. There were 4 other condos on her hall. If he fought her up a flight of steps there were 5 condos. If he fought her down a flight of steps there were 4 condos. If you leave that side of the building you have to a fight Jennifer across a open grass lawn to a vehicle or another building on the complex (Post 435 of this thread breaks down her building layout). If you attack her at her car, then you either put her in your vehicle or use hers. I don’t feel like her car was used so then you are left with the perp’s vehicle. If the perp used his vehicle, then you have to explain how her car was moved. Her car was most likely moved at least 2x since it wasn’t there when the manager checked at 11:30 am.

There were probably more than one crime scene. If Jennifer was abducted from her parking lot, she was probably taken somewhere else before being sexually assaulted and murdered. We have have no idea where that other crime scene was, so we don't know whether it was cleaned up quickly or not.

My money is still on the workers at the apartment complex, but I doubt whether there will ever be enough proof for an arrest.