GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #7

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Watching Cnn...

Don Lemon needs to calm down...
He is trying to get folks rowdy...
He has no idea what the jury is thinking...

Take a deep breath <modsnip>...

Yeah, I don't think so. I think he is honestly upset and I agree with him.

 

[Softail]

I don't understand why so many of you think the jury is debating only guilty vs not guilty on count 1. It's possible they ALL think he is guilty of murder, but just disagree as to the degree. 7 might think it was premeditated and 5 might think it was not. I think they all know he murdered Jordan Davis, but are unable to agree on the level of the murder. Does that make sense?

My opinion only, I think one or more fell for the self defense BS. That's why I think they are deadlocked on that count. I also think people don't understand premeditation. That is even true on this board. They don't understand that premeditation can be made in a split second. :twocents:

 

[Boytwnmom]

Lack of common sense. This is just not a tough or close case. I fear in some places the reasonable man standard is dead and juries can be mislead and confused by lengthy jury instructions and fail to apply common sense. I always saw this guy's defense as absurd and couldn't believe someone buying it. I can't imagine what this jury is thinking that this has taken so long

I can't imagine that they'd be deadlocked on the murder charge but find Dunn NG on the attempted murder charges because that means at least one side thinks he's guilty of something for killing Jordan. How could you think he was guilty of killing Jordan (on any of the charges) and think he was not guilty of attempted murder of the other passengers in the car, especially considering that Tevin Thompson escaped injury only because the bullets didn't make it all the way through his door, and Tommy Storns barely escaped being shot in the head? This jury is making absolutely no sense!

 

[Leve]

No, there are several degrees they'd have to be unanimous on.

Also, folks might think there's doubt that Jordan was 'scary' acting enough for it to conceivably be self-defense with him, but they know the other kids were literally just trying to get out of there. You can't shoot them. They weren't even impolite to the man!

That makes sense, thank you.

 

[noor]

I am not a Florida lawyer, but I have a problem with a judge telling jurors so specifically how to deliberate. No one is supposed to tell a jury that. This judge seems a bit odd to me.

The Judge can tell the juror's to go back to the juror room, It's the law that He can instruct the jury on additionally instructions.

As a matter of fact lawyers on CNN are saying that this judge is very lean on these jurors, a lawyer was saying this Judge is NOT telling them what to do.

So, you're not a florida lawyer......

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't understand why so many of you think the jury is debating only guilty vs not guilty on count 1. It's possible they ALL think he is guilty of murder, but just disagree as to the degree. 7 might think it was premeditated and 5 might think it was not. I think they all know he murdered Jordan Davis, but are unable to agree on the level of the murder. Does that make sense?

I agree with you.

I just don't agree it needs to be debated. IMO premeditation was proven. It's obviously 1st degree to me. I'd settle for no less as a juror.

I'd rather suck up the mistrial.



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[ScarlettScarpetta]

I will try very hard to start thinking like you are instead of the way I am thinking.

Think about it like this. If they were thinking he was not guilty of the AM, Then they would also have to believe he was not guilty of the murder charge. Because then it was all self defense..

KWIM?

 

[nomoresorrow]

It's not reasonable for you to assume there was ever a weapon in that car. Your job, as a juror, isn't to manufacture evidence. The evidence to be considered was presented in court. The only person claiming there was a gun. was the defendant. He is not credible. Matter of fact. He was proven to be a liar.
There is zero evidence to corroborate his LIE. He couldn't even keep his OWN LIE straight.



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Just wanted to add...if ANY juror believes there was a gun in the teen's vehicle - WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE of that being the case - they need to examine just why they are so willing to accept/believe that. I will say no more... JMO ~

 

[QueenD]

Don Lemon just said he is pizzed!

Who is don lemon and where are you guys watching this?

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by Rachel Leitão

"I am a victim of police brutality" says speaker on courthouse steps #dunntrial #jordandavis pic.twitter.com/SbCR5LJdP9

 

[Truth Detector]

I am not a Florida lawyer, but I have a problem with a judge telling jurors so specifically how to deliberate. No one is supposed to tell a jury that. This judge seems a bit odd to me.

Are you referring to Judge Healey's 'Allen Charge'?

[Allen v. United States, 164 U.S. 492 (1896)]

Where do you believe he overstepped that rather directive language?

Allen Charge in full:

"Members of the Jury:

I'm going to ask that you continue your deliberations in an effort to reach agreement upon a verdict and dispose of this case; and I would like for you to consider as you do so.

This is an important case. The trial has been expensive in time, effort, money and emotional strain to both the defense and the prosecution. If you should fail to agree upon a verdict, the case will be left open and may have to be tried again. Obviously, another trial would only serve to increase the cost to both sides, and there is no reason to believe that the case can be tried again by either side any better or more exhaustively than it has been tried before you.

Any future jury must be selected in the same manner and from the same source as you were chosen, and there is no reason to believe that the case could ever be submitted to twelve men and women more conscientious, more impartial, or more competent to decide it, or that more or clearer evidence could be produced.

If a substantial majority of your number are in favor of a conviction, those of you who disagree should reconsider whether your doubt is a reasonable one since it appears to make no effective impression upon the minds of the others. On the other hand, if a majority or even a lesser number of you are in favor of an acquittal, the rest of you should ask yourselves again, and most thoughtfully, whether you should accept the weight and sufficiency of evidence which fails to convince your fellow jurors beyond a reasonable doubt.

Remember at all times that no juror is expected to give up an honest belief he or she may have as to the weight or effect of the evidence; but, after full deliberation and consideration of the evidence in the case, it is your duty to agree upon a verdict if you can do so.

You must also remember that if the evidence in the case fails to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt the Defendant should have your unanimous verdict of Not Guilty.

You may be as leisurely in your deliberations as the occasion may require and should take all the time which you may feel is necessary.

I will ask now that you retire once again and continue your deliberations with these additional comments in mind to be applied, of course, in conjunction with all of the other instructions I have previously given to you."

 

[evelyn24]

I agree. I also think they are deadlocked on the level of murder.

Yes that's what the judge said basically; deadlocked on murder 1 and the lesser included charges (2nd and manslaughter).

Some clearly think JD was self defense some think it was murder of some degree.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I hope I don't come across as mean but really, the MD's of this world and laws allowing SYG and self defense are not an issue. The cases of legal gun owners standing trial for illegal self defense is rare. Especially compared to oh I don't know, criminals with any given weapon, including illegal firearms, attack, raping, and murdering thousands of unarmed innocent citizens every year.
I think the laws of FL that govern self defense and SYG are just fine. Of course the media is very much on the gun control agenda so they play up rare cases like this, but it's not common for legal gun owners to be cowboys and think "Hey I'll just shoot this dude cause of SYG". That's emotional blather and stats just don't back it up.
The vast majority of self defense is legit and charges never filed after an investigation, and most legal gun owners are responsible and not cowboys itching to shoot someone.

I could not disagree with you more. Every legal gun owner is a responsible gun owner.... Right up until the point when they become irresponsible. I could list dozens and dozens of school shooters who purchased weapons legally. Someone like MD, who TRIED TO HIRE HIS NEIGHBOR TO MURDER SOMEONE (which WAS reported to the police), should NEVER be allowed to own a firearm!

 

[Linda7NJ]

Just wanted to add...if ANY juror believes there was a gun in the teen's vehicle - WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE of that being the case - they need to examine just why they are so willing to accept/believe that. I will say no more... JMO ~

Thank you!


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[flourish]

I feel so worried and disheartened...I admittedly just wrote a poem entitled, "An Angry Ode to Florida Juries."

*sigh*

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[Nymeria]

Larry Hannan &#8207;@LarryHannan 1m
On a separate matter, I believe the jurors dinners are about to arrive. #DunnTrial

They should be feeding them beans, chili, white castle and cabbage.
That would get them out of that room pretty darn fast....:giggle:


ETA- YES, I know this is childish humor....and YES they should take their time.
Again, an injection of levity is sometimes called for

 

[RANCH]

If the judge in this case only gave the "Allen Charge" and nothing else to this jury, after they said that their deadlocked, then he should be okay.

Florida appellate courts have found reversible error when the trial court either explicitly stated that it desired a verdict in the case or so indicated indirectly.18 Even a note from the trial judge to the jury requesting that the jury “please continue with your deliberations” has been reversed based on “the very real possibility that the jurors believed that they were required to reach a verdict even if that meant compromising their positions.”19 Harmful error is frequently found by appellate courts when a trial judge does not read the Allen charge verbatim,20 although such deviation has not always resulted in a finding of reversible error.21 Whether coercion by the trial judge improperly influenced a jury’s verdict is reviewed on appeal under a totality of the circumstances.22 Relevant considerations include the content of the deadlock instruction given, the length of deliberation after the instruction, the total length of deliberation, and any indicia in the record of coercion or pressure on the jury.

https://www.floridabar.org/divcom/jn/jnjournal01.nsf/Articles/21AC5A6D2909065085256ADB005D62F6

 

[JaimeInLA]

Who is don lemon and where are you guys watching this?

CNN... Turn it on now! I can't stress that enough! He is awesome!!

 

[trial addicted]

My opinion only, I think one or more fell for the self defense BS. That's why I think they are deadlocked on that count. I also think people don't understand premeditation. That is even true on this board. They don't understand that premeditation can be made in a split second. :twocents:

I agree with you

 

[Bernina]

Gawd, I hate "news chair quarterbacks"......unfortunately I had to turn on CNN (I haven't watched HLN since the first week of the Arias trial and never will again) and there's all news peeps and their "esteemed" guests opining on the outcome........:facepalm: