FL FL - Kingfish Boat Ramp Murders, Holmes Beach, 1 Aug 1980

[Sleuthster]

How did I miss this before?? You gotta tell! Or at least give us some idea of how you had the... displeasure... of hearing about this from them. Brrrr!

Not sure what your deal is but I really would like to see this case solved. These comments where you are mocking me are not productive and I'm not sure why you are positng them.

Just so everyone knows I would like to see this case solved because it was a horrible crime against an innocent family out having a great day and then it ends so tragicly. I would also like to see it solved because someone told me that they drove by the scene that day and that the doctor treated them at TGH. I cannot find proof of the later and the first comment coming from this person is scary enough.The person also told me over the years that he commited multiple homocides. Until I can prove any of this I am not devulging other info, LE already knows about this guy in other cases. So, please I have sort of taken this case personally and would really like to keep it on topic. Thank you

 

[liz b.]

Not sure what your deal is but I really would like to see this case solved. These comments where you are mocking me are not productive and I'm not sure why you are positng them.

Just so everyone knows I would like to see this case solved because it was a horrible crime against an innocent family out having a great day and then it ends so tragicly. I would also like to see it solved because someone told me that they drove by the scene that day and that the doctor treated them at TGH. I cannot find proof of the later and the first comment coming from this person is scary enough.The person also told me over the years that he commited multiple homocides. Until I can prove any of this I am not devulging other info, LE already knows about this guy in other cases. So, please I have sort of taken this case personally and would really like to keep it on topic. Thank you

Juan Dumois was strictly a pediatrician ; he only treated children. Also, if LE knows about this person in other cases, don't they have prints on file ? How about probable cause ?

All JMO

 

[Sleuthster]

This person was shot by LE after attempting an armed robbery in 1978 in bradenton. He was 17 at the time and adjudicated an adult. He claimed that they sent him to TGH and the doctor couldnt get all the bullet out. Over the years he developed arthritis and had a hip replacement a few years ago.

Just 2 days ago I found a couple news articles on him from 1978. He actually was on a crime spree and had been arrested just weeks before the robbery for breaking into a mh, stealing money and then seting fire to the home. He never told me all this stuff. He only told me that he tried to rob the store with some "older" guy he met at a laundry mat (and it was the older guys idea) and the clerk started praying when he was going to shoot her (that was the plan) and he ran out of the store "unarmed" the praying thing was true the rest was bs, he was the main perp and he pointed the gun at LE which is why they shot him in the buttocks. The newspaper article also said that he "made" the clerk shake his hand before he left. Who does this but a sociopath. The article said he was treated at Blake hospital not TGH.
He also told me several times about the holmes beach murders and that this was the doctor that treated him at TGH and that he drove by the scene right after it happened. This gave me chills.
The age does not fit though, he would have been 19. He did look older. He also has a cleft chin and dark hair, 5'11 and was about 155 lbs when I met him in 85.
In 1980 he was on probation for the other offenses and stole a car (this is what I want to find out, what type and exact date) and went on another crime spree he claimed. Nothing in google archives.

Ended up in Union Correctional for 2 1/2 years, got out in 83 I beleive. There he claimed to have killed an inmate in "self defense". Said 2 "black" men where convicted of it and given the death penalty but it was reversed. There was actually a case that fits this and he gave me details I believe only the perp would know. I notified UCI sometime ago but they just blew it off.
Over the years, LE came to me twice asking once to look at pics of a guy that he got in a fight with. I pointed him out and LE said he was found dead. Another time they came all the way from orlando about a suposive bad check. Asked him alot of questions.
BTW, I am not sure if his finger prints where on file back then because he was 17 at the time of arrest. He was however arrested many times over the years after 1985 including charges of domestic violence.

Like I said there's really not enough to say that this is the perp and he probably is such a sociopath he is delusional.

 

[liz b.]

It looks like the killer meant to kill everyone in the car. Juan Dumois got out of the car,and walked to the boat.He helped the killer place his bike in the boat. It was a perfect opportunity for the killer to shoot Juan Dumois in the back of the head,grab the bike and flee. He would have made it to the getaway car before anyone caught him. So, I don't think that Juan Dumois alone was the target. Or Raymond Barrows alone.

I'm not convinced at this point that the two boys were killed because they were witnesses. They were very young,and the trauma would have impacted their memory of the shooter.

Regarding the use of bicycles in homicides : there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that it is very common in Latin America....

All JMO

 

[liz b.]

This person was shot by LE after attempting an armed robbery in 1978 in bradenton. He was 17 at the time and adjudicated an adult. He claimed that they sent him to TGH and the doctor couldnt get all the bullet out. Over the years he developed arthritis and had a hip replacement a few years ago.

Just 2 days ago I found a couple news articles on him from 1978. He actually was on a crime spree and had been arrested just weeks before the robbery for breaking into a mh, stealing money and then seting fire to the home. He never told me all this stuff. He only told me that he tried to rob the store with some "older" guy he met at a laundry mat (and it was the older guys idea) and the clerk started praying when he was going to shoot her (that was the plan) and he ran out of the store "unarmed" the praying thing was true the rest was bs, he was the main perp and he pointed the gun at LE which is why they shot him in the buttocks. The newspaper article also said that he "made" the clerk shake his hand before he left. Who does this but a sociopath. The article said he was treated at Blake hospital not TGH.
He also told me several times about the holmes beach murders and that this was the doctor that treated him at TGH and that he drove by the scene right after it happened. This gave me chills.
The age does not fit though, he would have been 19. He did look older. He also has a cleft chin and dark hair, 5'11 and was about 155 lbs when I met him in 85.
In 1980 he was on probation for the other offenses and stole a car (this is what I want to find out, what type and exact date) and went on another crime spree he claimed. Nothing in google archives.

Ended up in Union Correctional for 2 1/2 years, got out in 83 I beleive. There he claimed to have killed an inmate in "self defense". Said 2 "black" men where convicted of it and given the death penalty but it was reversed. There was actually a case that fits this and he gave me details I believe only the perp would know. I notified UCI sometime ago but they just blew it off.
Over the years, LE came to me twice asking once to look at pics of a guy that he got in a fight with. I pointed him out and LE said he was found dead. Another time they came all the way from orlando about a suposive bad check. Asked him alot of questions.
BTW, I am not sure if his finger prints where on file back then because he was 17 at the time of arrest. He was however arrested many times over the years after 1985 including charges of domestic violence.

Like I said there's really not enough to say that this is the perp and he probably is such a sociopath he is delusional.

I wouldn't believe this person,if I were you. I doubt he had anything to do with this murder.... Juan Dumois would not have treated this person. He was not a surgeon, he practiced pediatric medicine only. ...He would not have had anything to do with removing a bullit from this person... All JMO

 

[tapu]

Not sure what your deal is but I really would like to see this case solved. These comments where you are mocking me are not productive and I'm not sure why you are positng them.

I am looking for some basis in reality for what all you have been saying. I won't any more though.

~tapu

 

[tapu]

Regarding the use of bicycles in homicides : there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that it is very common in Latin America....

I was aware of this, too, when I lived in C.A. Of course, there's a reason a lot of cities use bicycle cops, too.

 

[Sleuthster]

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090429/ARTICLE/904291060?p=1&tc=pg

Destroyed evidence surprises Manatee lawyers

"Some of the destroyed evidence was also from unsolved cases, including homicides. Sarasota Police recently made an arrest in a murder from 30 years ago based on DNA and fingerprints from evidence collected at the crime scene."

Interesting seeing that the email I received 6 months ago from the retired FDLE guy said that evidence had been ruined in Manatee. Ihave to be honest, I dont think this case or many other cases in Manatee county will ever be solved now.

 

[Sleuthster]

http://www.baynews9.com/article/new...-evidence-problems-at-Manatee-sheriffs-office

Last Updated: Friday, September 24, 2010
MANATEE COUNTY --
Missing evidence at the Manatee County Sheriff's Office may affect cases after all.
In 2002, the sheriff's office discovered a leak damaged evidence from more than 3,000 cases, dating back to the 1980's. Everything was destroyed without creating a record of what they had and what was gone.
Sheriff's office spokesperson Dave Bristow said at first they didn't think it wouldn't affect any cases, but now they've learned it has.
"I think we're a little past frustration," said Bristow. "Again something you fix and you move on."
But moving on will be difficult.
In July, Bay News 9 learned the hair needed for DNA testing from a disputed rape case was destroyed, hindering Derrick Williams' efforts to fight his conviction.
Now, 260-pounds of marijuana and two kilograms of cocaine are missing from two unresolved drug cases.
Defense attorneys said this could lead to big problems.
"It could put a lot of cases in jeopardy," said defense attorney Peter Lombardo.
When someone goes to court, they have a right to get evidence re-tested. Also, the evidence is often presented in court and if it's missing, it could jeopardize the case.
Jocelyn Francois goes on trial for drug trafficking charges in November. With the cocaine missing, there is concern he may beat the charges.
"It could get case dismissed for defendant," Lombardo said.
Lombardo is checking all of his cases to see if they're affected and believes others are as well.
In the meantime, the sheriff's office said they've now using a computerized system to make sure nothing like this ever happens again. They're now barcoding everything and placing it into a database and then moving everything into storage at their their main headquarters.
It is still unknown exactly how many open cases were affected by the destroyed evidence. The sheriff's office said they believe there will be more in the future.

 

[liz b.]

http://www.baynews9.com/article/new...-evidence-problems-at-Manatee-sheriffs-office

Last Updated: Friday, September 24, 2010
MANATEE COUNTY --
Missing evidence at the Manatee County Sheriff's Office may affect cases after all.
In 2002, the sheriff's office discovered a leak damaged evidence from more than 3,000 cases, dating back to the 1980's. Everything was destroyed without creating a record of what they had and what was gone.
Sheriff's office spokesperson Dave Bristow said at first they didn't think it wouldn't affect any cases, but now they've learned it has.
"I think we're a little past frustration," said Bristow. "Again something you fix and you move on."
But moving on will be difficult.
In July, Bay News 9 learned the hair needed for DNA testing from a disputed rape case was destroyed, hindering Derrick Williams' efforts to fight his conviction.
Now, 260-pounds of marijuana and two kilograms of cocaine are missing from two unresolved drug cases.
Defense attorneys said this could lead to big problems.
"It could put a lot of cases in jeopardy," said defense attorney Peter Lombardo.
When someone goes to court, they have a right to get evidence re-tested. Also, the evidence is often presented in court and if it's missing, it could jeopardize the case.
Jocelyn Francois goes on trial for drug trafficking charges in November. With the cocaine missing, there is concern he may beat the charges.
"It could get case dismissed for defendant," Lombardo said.
Lombardo is checking all of his cases to see if they're affected and believes others are as well.
In the meantime, the sheriff's office said they've now using a computerized system to make sure nothing like this ever happens again. They're now barcoding everything and placing it into a database and then moving everything into storage at their their main headquarters.
It is still unknown exactly how many open cases were affected by the destroyed evidence. The sheriff's office said they believe there will be more in the future.

Luckily, LE does have the 77 prints from the car.And the one very clear print from the boat....

All JMO

 

[reportertype]

Yes,Sleuthster, the prints have been rerun over the years. But, I wondered about the location of the files of prints taken from the Mariel boatlift people...

All JMO

Who took the prints? FLDE? Miami PD maybe? Since they would have to scan in all of those print cards, I bet they may not all be in there even today.

 

[liz b.]

Who took the prints? FLDE? Miami PD maybe? Since they would have to scan in all of those print cards, I bet they may not all be in there even today.

Reportertype,
I don't believe Miami PD was involved. They are on the other coast of FL ? I think FDLE. And they do have the prints, they periodically run them, looking for a match. What's strange is that in all these years,they have never found one.

 

[liz b.]

Who took the prints? FLDE? Miami PD maybe? Since they would have to scan in all of those print cards, I bet they may not all be in there even today.

OH sorry,need more coffee LOL... Now I see what you mean. The mariel prints would probably have been taken by Immigration, or maybe the FBI. I do know that the FBI did a lot of the face to face interviews with the Marielitos... You're probably right,though, they may not all be there...

All JMO

 

[capstone1]

Please remember that the homicide was under the Holmes Beach Police Department jurisdiction not the Manatee Sheriff's Office.

 

[rosario]

great work everyone and this case is absolutely unreal...This would be perfect for dateline, 48hours.etc..., I am so shocked that this is not a national focus..I think everyone has discussed some great theories and ideas, we all know drug crazed people can do anything and certain people with severe mental issues are also capable of insane actions...The fact that this guy drove to a waiting car is the most telling for me...

 

[CrimeSolver]

great work everyone and this case is absolutely unreal...This would be perfect for dateline, 48hours.etc..., I am so shocked that this is not a national focus..I think everyone has discussed some great theories and ideas, we all know drug crazed people can do anything and certain people with severe mental issues are also capable of insane actions...The fact that this guy drove to a waiting car is the most telling for me...

I'd love to see the case profiled on one of those shows, but they focus more on solved cases, number one, and salacious stories involving infidelity, inheritances, etc. As big a true crime aficionado as I am , I have almost given up on these shows because it's the same husband-murders-wife/wife-murders-husband crap every week.

 

[liz b.]

great work everyone and this case is absolutely unreal...This would be perfect for dateline, 48hours.etc..., I am so shocked that this is not a national focus..I think everyone has discussed some great theories and ideas, we all know drug crazed people can do anything and certain people with severe mental issues are also capable of insane actions...The fact that this guy drove to a waiting car is the most telling for me...

Rosario,
Someone "drug crazed " ? What motive ? There was no robbery,according to Raymond Barrows,the survivor. Someone high on drugs ? This murder seemed planned, the waiting around until the doctor and his family got to their car. The excuse to the doctor about a sore ankle, and needing a ride... Also, I'm fairly sure that the doctor would have recognized the signs of someone high on drugs.He might not have let him in the car where his kids were sitting.IMO

The shooter had an accomplice. The one thing that stands out for me is that the shooter could have killed Juan Dumois without ever getting into the car. Dr. Dumois helped him put his bike in the back of the boat. The killer could have shot him right there, and then shot Raymond Barrows as he sat in the front passenger seat of the car. No, IMO, this killer fully intended to kill the doctor,Raymond Barrows,and the two children, when he got into that car. It seems like a revenge killing IMO. Who would possibly have a motive,a need, for such revenge ?

 

[Lera213]

I'm only at reading page one so forgive me if this was mentioned. The first thing I thought was that there was some disgruntle family member that blames this doctor for the cause of a death. I hope that the LE looked into past medical records of this doctor's patients. I would be looking at any deaths, or long term physical problems. What kind of Dr. was he?

 

[liz b.]

I'm only at reading page one so forgive me if this was mentioned. The first thing I thought was that there was some disgruntle family member that blames this doctor for the cause of a death. I hope that the LE looked into past medical records of this doctor's patients. I would be looking at any deaths, or long term physical problems. What kind of Dr. was he?

Hi Lera213,
Dr. Dumois practiced only pediatric medicine. He was highly respected in his field. LE did check that angle, but apparently found nothing there.

All JMO

 

[Sleuthster]

I'm only at reading page one so forgive me if this was mentioned. The first thing I thought was that there was some disgruntle family member that blames this doctor for the cause of a death. I hope that the LE looked into past medical records of this doctor's patients. I would be looking at any deaths, or long term physical problems. What kind of Dr. was he?

I have also wondered on here about this being a revenge hit. Even though he was a pediatrician, there are situations where children die in hospitals from accidents or illness and the doctor gets blamed. Or it could have been a former patient that was left with some sort of permanent injury (guy was complaining about hurt ankle so he could have known he was a doctor).Could be the only reason IMO that he would have done it while the children where there and shot the kids before Dr Dumois. Revenge.