FL FL - Kingfish Boat Ramp Murders, Holmes Beach, 1 Aug 1980

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The only explanation that works is that this was a professional hit. The car parked nearby at the grocery store points strongly away form this being a random attack. We wouldn't even know about the car at the grocery store had Mr. Matzke not followed the killer away from the crime scene.

As for the killer never turning up, he was likely killed due to botching the job. Maybe it was killing the kids and the attendant attention that brought to the crime that cost him his life. In my opinion it's that the actual target (the brother-in-law) survived the hit. He worked at a hotel that was a place where cocaine kingpins would stay. Maybe some paranoid drug lord thought he heard something and ordered his killing. It really could be as simple as that. Just some paranoid random thing and it escalated into this nightmare.
 
There are many links no longer working, so very frustrating. Thank you for this link! (Maybe WS should change it's copying policy so that information does not disappear when the links become obsolete?)

I am curious about this unidentified driver. This person was not mentioned in the first postings of this thread. Initially I assumed that the shooter got into his own car and drove away by himself.
In later postings, the second person is mentioned, and questions are asked about "where did you find this?" But the links, if they appear at all, are not working. Very frustrating.

According to the surviving widow, the act was random.
I tend to agree, except for the other driver - if there was one. Does more info on this driver exist?
He would have been more than an accomplice IME, he would have totally been on to the game. Maybe he just loved the thought of it all and the stories? Or maybe they changed roles everytime?
Still, LE seems to be looking for the gunman only.

I'm not finding any mention of the driver in early articles. In fact, there's not even a hint of a driver until an article from 1986 which states the killer fled in a "waiting car". Until then, the reports make it sound as though the killer drove away alone.

Police still stumped by 1980 murders
Sept 29, 1986

Other links

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=gmFQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=p1gDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3144,1249825

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=gmFQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=p1gDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4115,1260577

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=5Hc1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4935,2241556

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=5Hc1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3091,2238110

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=63c1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4759,5785011

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=h2FQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=p1gDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5121,2787099

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=wJwcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=22cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2602,538467

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=63c1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3227,5796838

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=63c1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3060,5754551

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=7Hc1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6693,6387531

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=7Hc1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3104,6242385

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=63c1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2211,5778962

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=yZwcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=22cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3555,6843216

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Lv8cAAAAIBAJ&sjid=so4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=5186,1600176

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=4tktAAAAIBAJ&sjid=vlgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3830,4135384

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=JnlPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zgUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3360,4888047
 
Try as I might I cannot find the ABC Action News special report online. The links don't work and when I search the archives all I get is the three part video presentation, not the case documents and photos. I am particularly interested in the blurry photos taken by John Toth that purport to show the murderer walking away from the Dumois' station wagon. Can anyone help me?

Also - the pictures showing the scene after the 'car accident', shows someone with blood on them being attended to by some bystanders and also a nurse running past. Does anyone know who it is? I think the person is too slim to be Barrows, could it be one of the others. I don't see any reports of the father or the boys being conscious and this person appears to be.

Thanks!
 
I'm not finding any mention of the driver in early articles. In fact, there's not even a hint of a driver until an article from 1986 which states the killer fled in a "waiting car". Until then, the reports make it sound as though the killer drove away alone.

Police still stumped by 1980 murders
Sept 29, 1986

Other links

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=gmFQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=p1gDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3144,1249825

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=gmFQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=p1gDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4115,1260577

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=5Hc1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4935,2241556

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=5Hc1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3091,2238110

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=63c1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4759,5785011

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=h2FQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=p1gDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5121,2787099

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=wJwcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=22cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2602,538467

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=63c1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3227,5796838

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=63c1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3060,5754551

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=7Hc1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6693,6387531

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=7Hc1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3104,6242385

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=63c1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=1GcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2211,5778962

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=yZwcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=22cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3555,6843216

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Lv8cAAAAIBAJ&sjid=so4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=5186,1600176

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=4tktAAAAIBAJ&sjid=vlgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3830,4135384

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=JnlPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zgUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3360,4888047

Bessie, The direct quote from the Bradenton Post is :" the killer loaded his bike into the trunk of a Ford LTD, with a FL license plate, and an unidentified driver. The men vanished. " I actually checked the story with the paper. The paper verified it. Sounds like a hit.jmo moo
 
Try as I might I cannot find the ABC Action News special report online. The links don't work and when I search the archives all I get is the three part video presentation, not the case documents and photos. I am particularly interested in the blurry photos taken by John Toth that purport to show the murderer walking away from the Dumois' station wagon. Can anyone help me?


Also - the pictures showing the scene after the 'car accident', shows someone with blood on them being attended to by some bystanders and also a nurse running past. Does anyone know who it is? I think the person is too slim to be Barrows, could it be one of the others. I don't see any reports of the father or the boys being conscious and this person appears to be.

Thanks!

I remember seeing that pic and it looked like a child to me. Made me sad to think that one of the boys was conscious and then died.
 
Just to echo kwash's sentiments, does anyone have a working link to the blurry photos taken of the killer? The earlier links in this thread have expired.
 
Just to echo kwash's sentiments, does anyone have a working link to the blurry photos taken of the killer? The earlier links in this thread have expired.

And to echo the echo...can anyone provide updated links and/or images?
 
This case has intrigued me for years because we know as little about who the intended victim was, as we do about the killer himself. I have tried to walk through this with open eyes, and form some educated opinions (and an opinion is all that it is) about what I think happened. I do not intend to offend the families of the victims with these opinions, however not thinking openly of all possible angles will not help bring closure to this mystery.

Going on the assumption that Raymond Barrows was the intended victim, the following makes sense to me: (a) the killer followed he and his family from Miami to Anna Maria; (b) Ray was most likely never alone during the few short days he was there on vacation and not an easy target by himself only; (c) the killer most likely knew where Ray and relatives were staying and I would speculate that he probably staked out the beach house which gave him knowledge that they went boating on 08/01/1980; (d) possibly feeling the pressure to “do the job” he decided to strike when the family returned from fishing; (e) there were probably enough people around the boat ramp to make a hit and run there impossible without being identified; (f) because most accounts point toward Ray being shot first I think helps frame the idea that he was the target and being shot in the neck was probably facilitated by the headrest being in the way of a direct shot to the back of his head; (g) the fact that the two Dumois children, Dr. Dumois, and Col. Matzke were also killed reinforces how motivated this guy was to escape unidentified which I think underscores that it was not just some random act of violence, but a professional job. The killer surely had certain body parts of steel to shoot the driver of the car he was a back seat passenger in while it was rolling down the highway – crazy for sure!
Using available online resources to review the claim made by Donald Frankos, that the killer was Josie Hernandez, I find it hard to accept for these reasons: (a) Hernandez would have been about 23 years old at the time of the killings (and having just arrived in the US from Cuba) and I think all witnesses had the killer as an older man; (b) Ray described the killer as having a New England accent and I find it doubtful that Hernandez was able to fake the accent. Going on the assumption that Ray was the target and he knew it, but could not reveal that for obvious reasons within his family, might have influenced him to be less than upfront about describing the killer (which has been referred to on this thread by others). I also think it helps paint a picture of his death at such a young age (survivor’s guilt?) because if true would have been an enormous stress factor. I’m going to go way out there on this one, but “what if” the killer approached the victims and actually spoke to them in Spanish? Perhaps that was a motivator for the normally conservative/protective Dr. Dumois to agree to give him a lift.

A few odds and ends about Ray that I found fascinating include that he said (interview transcript 08/22/1980) he had “no creditors” which is interesting for someone having the type of employment he had at hotel – not saying it could not happen, just saying it is interesting. In the same interview, when asked for his home phone number he said “we just changed it a month or so ago”, but no further question or explanation as to why, which is interesting. In one of the online articles it said that the son of Ray had stayed home in Miami because there had been a recent burglary at the house, which is also interesting considering that part of the Frankos allegation was that Ray was hit for holding a large quantity of cocaine from an associate. None of these things makes Ray the intended victim, but there seems to be very little about Dr. Dumois that has suspicious overtones (would love to know more about the dog track tie in, and how that could have been related to this at all).

It is too bad that case with this many victims has such little resource data for public viewing, such as a compliation of the photos surrounding the case.
 
This case has intrigued me for years because we know as little about who the intended victim was, as we do about the killer himself. I have tried to walk through this with open eyes, and form some educated opinions (and an opinion is all that it is) about what I think happened. I do not intend to offend the families of the victims with these opinions, however not thinking openly of all possible angles will not help bring closure to this mystery.

Going on the assumption that Raymond Barrows was the intended victim, the following makes sense to me: (a) the killer followed he and his family from Miami to Anna Maria; (b) Ray was most likely never alone during the few short days he was there on vacation and not an easy target by himself only; (c) the killer most likely knew where Ray and relatives were staying and I would speculate that he probably staked out the beach house which gave him knowledge that they went boating on 08/01/1980; (d) possibly feeling the pressure to “do the job” he decided to strike when the family returned from fishing; (e) there were probably enough people around the boat ramp to make a hit and run there impossible without being identified; (f) because most accounts point toward Ray being shot first I think helps frame the idea that he was the target and being shot in the neck was probably facilitated by the headrest being in the way of a direct shot to the back of his head; (g) the fact that the two Dumois children, Dr. Dumois, and Col. Matzke were also killed reinforces how motivated this guy was to escape unidentified which I think underscores that it was not just some random act of violence, but a professional job. The killer surely had certain body parts of steel to shoot the driver of the car he was a back seat passenger in while it was rolling down the highway – crazy for sure!
Using available online resources to review the claim made by Donald Frankos, that the killer was Josie Hernandez, I find it hard to accept for these reasons: (a) Hernandez would have been about 23 years old at the time of the killings (and having just arrived in the US from Cuba) and I think all witnesses had the killer as an older man; (b) Ray described the killer as having a New England accent and I find it doubtful that Hernandez was able to fake the accent. Going on the assumption that Ray was the target and he knew it, but could not reveal that for obvious reasons within his family, might have influenced him to be less than upfront about describing the killer (which has been referred to on this thread by others). I also think it helps paint a picture of his death at such a young age (survivor’s guilt?) because if true would have been an enormous stress factor. I’m going to go way out there on this one, but “what if” the killer approached the victims and actually spoke to them in Spanish? Perhaps that was a motivator for the normally conservative/protective Dr. Dumois to agree to give him a lift.

A few odds and ends about Ray that I found fascinating include that he said (interview transcript 08/22/1980) he had “no creditors” which is interesting for someone having the type of employment he had at hotel – not saying it could not happen, just saying it is interesting. In the same interview, when asked for his home phone number he said “we just changed it a month or so ago”, but no further question or explanation as to why, which is interesting. In one of the online articles it said that the son of Ray had stayed home in Miami because there had been a recent burglary at the house, which is also interesting considering that part of the Frankos allegation was that Ray was hit for holding a large quantity of cocaine from an associate. None of these things makes Ray the intended victim, but there seems to be very little about Dr. Dumois that has suspicious overtones (would love to know more about the dog track tie in, and how that could have been related to this at all).

It is too bad that case with this many victims has such little resource data for public viewing, such as a compliation of the photos surrounding the case.

Great post, ty. I have thought for a while that the shooter spoke to them in Spanish. It was only Raymond who said otherwise. Not sure,though,why someone hired to kill raymond wouldn't have done so in Miami. Also, why would the killer wait until he was in the vehicle ? According to the news reports found earlier in this thread, the killer walked up to the car,and asked for a ride. Both Dr. Dumois and Raymond got out of the car, and walked around the car and boat,to the back of the boat's end. They watched as the killer loaded his bike up onto the boat deck. My question would be : why didn't the killer shoot both of them at that time,get on his bike and leave the scene. The two boys could'd drive,they couldn't have followed him.It is likely that both boys would have been in deep shock, and likely not able to identify him. By shooting them while they ere out of the vehicle, the killer could have avoided the wreck, and all of the first responders who the accident brought. Why did he need to kill all of the occupants in that car ? Was it either a vendetta of some type,or was the killer just some sociopath looking for victims,as Dr. Dumois' widow believed ? Baffling. jmo moo
 
Good questions... I am of the opinion that the killer was intending to strike at the boat ramp itself, and never meant to have it go down inside the car. In a prior link there are interview transcripts from witnesses including one (I think) from an older gentleman who offered to help load the boat on the trailer, but Dr. Dumois refused the help - this tells me that there were probably other people at the ramp, making a hit risky for being identified. I agree that it would have been fairly easy while at the rear of the boat loading up the bike, but again, maybe there was too much activity nearby. Who knows, maybe the killer then thought about forcing the driver to pull over and then pulling the trigger, and instead just let it rip? I think it's good to keep the ideas flowing.
 
Good questions... I am of the opinion that the killer was intending to strike at the boat ramp itself, and never meant to have it go down inside the car. In a prior link there are interview transcripts from witnesses including one (I think) from an older gentleman who offered to help load the boat on the trailer, but Dr. Dumois refused the help - this tells me that there were probably other people at the ramp, making a hit risky for being identified. I agree that it would have been fairly easy while at the rear of the boat loading up the bike, but again, maybe there was too much activity nearby. Who knows, maybe the killer then thought about forcing the driver to pull over and then pulling the trigger, and instead just let it rip? I think it's good to keep the ideas flowing.

They had been on vacation, and this happened on their last ( or close to last) vacation day ? I wonder who they might have met up with during that vacation ? There is one good reason for the shooter to kill them all : they knew him. Maybe not well, but maybe they had met and spoken with him on the beach or someplace during their vacation. Another reason is that he spoke to them in Spanish. Hadn't they left the ramp, when the shooter approached them ? Never heard that there was anyone close by at that time. According to Raymond Burrows. Thanks for your informative posts.
 
They had been on vacation, and this happened on their last ( or close to last) vacation day ? I wonder who they might have met up with during that vacation ? There is one good reason for the shooter to kill them all : they knew him. Maybe not well, but maybe they had met and spoken with him on the beach or someplace during their vacation. Another reason is that he spoke to them in Spanish. Hadn't they left the ramp, when the shooter approached them ? Never heard that there was anyone close by at that time. According to Raymond Burrows. Thanks for your informative posts.


This brings up an intriguing possibility: the reason they were killed is for something they saw during the vacation. Maybe someone smuggling cocaine in a boat? Maybe they didn't actually see something, but someone thought they did and quickly worked to take care of the problem? If this is the case it would explain targeting all four of them. It will also NEVER be solved because this would be even more convoluted than the professional hit theory.
 
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/228463-kingfish-boat-ramp-murder-eyewitness-carmen.html

This link (above) was originally posted by Bessie; it is the witness transcript of the guy at boat ramp; I believe the victims were driving out of the ramp (but still within the area) when bicycle man stopped them; If we remove Raymond's account of what went down, it really does open up endless possibilities about what really happened - and deepens the mystery further.
 
This brings up an intriguing possibility: the reason they were killed is for something they saw during the vacation. Maybe someone smuggling cocaine in a boat? Maybe they didn't actually see something, but someone thought they did and quickly worked to take care of the problem? If this is the case it would explain targeting all four of them. It will also NEVER be solved because this would be even more convoluted than the professional hit theory.

Good points, there had evidently been another boat trip a couple of days prior to the 08/01/1980 outing, and you never know, maybe something transpired that resulted in the killings. My gut feeling (and opinion only) remains that there was indeed a purpose for this violent act, and that it centered around Raymond but obviously cannot prove that, therefore it's wide open for ideas. The killer went to great lengths to avoid being identified, that is for sure. It's no wonder law enforcement pulled their hair out on this one...if only the blurred photos taken of the killer had been clear enough to make a better ID...
 
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/228463-kingfish-boat-ramp-murder-eyewitness-carmen.html

This link (above) was originally posted by Bessie; it is the witness transcript of the guy at boat ramp; I believe the victims were driving out of the ramp (but still within the area) when bicycle man stopped them; If we remove Raymond's account of what went down, it really does open up endless possibilities about what really happened - and deepens the mystery further.


Thanks for posting this. I haven't seen it before or if I did I don't remember it. He doesn't seem like the greatest witness. He's more concerned about the guy with the homemade trailer than the killer he actually did see. And he did see him because of the hair. The thing he says about not having a shirt I think even in those distorted photos you can tell the guy was wearing a shirt. It's been some time since I've seen them.

If you haven't seen the distorted photos I warn you it's disturbing because it's so frustrating to know if it was just clearer this whole thing could've taken a different turn.

One last thing: it's upsetting to think both of those men talking in the interview are probably dead. It's been so long now.
 
This brings up an intriguing possibility: the reason they were killed is for something they saw during the vacation. Maybe someone smuggling cocaine in a boat? Maybe they didn't actually see something, but someone thought they did and quickly worked to take care of the problem? If this is the case it would explain targeting all four of them. It will also NEVER be solved because this would be even more convoluted than the professional hit theory.

Could be. I was thinking more along the lines of a couple of guys who were just trolling for victims at the beach, and focused on Raymond and Dr. D. maybe watched them all week. Sociopaths. I wonder if the men and the two boys spent a lot of time together on the vacation. And the women and girls did other things,separate from the guys ?
 
Good points, there had evidently been another boat trip a couple of days prior to the 08/01/1980 outing, and you never know, maybe something transpired that resulted in the killings. My gut feeling (and opinion only) remains that there was indeed a purpose for this violent act, and that it centered around Raymond but obviously cannot prove that, therefore it's wide open for ideas. The killer went to great lengths to avoid being identified, that is for sure. It's no wonder law enforcement pulled their hair out on this one...if only the blurred photos taken of the killer had been clear enough to make a better ID...

I had thought that Raymond was the target. He was the Bell Captain at the Key Biscayne hotel. A favorite place of many visitors from Colombia at that time. But, not sure about a hired killer following him to Holmes Beach to kill him.When he was in a car with 3 other passengers. jmo
 

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