FL FL - Kingfish Boat Ramp Murders, Holmes Beach, 1 Aug 1980
- Thread starter CrimeSolver
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If you’re referring to the photos being published online by media at one time, my guess is the passage of time as older articles are no longer able to be viewed as links once they archive/remove them to conserve storage space; it seems to happen a lot on cold cases
Sleuthster
Verified - friend of Wendy Huggy
Not sure why. Onaliv's possibility makes sense. I still wish they could still be viewed.
Sleuthster
Verified - friend of Wendy Huggy
Not sure. I've spoken with local LE about another case of someone I know that is mssing and they did not really offer much other then theories about possible perps and asked me questions about local garage bands back in the day. I did not ask though if I could see any info on the file
annemc2
her name is Suzanne Marie Sevakis
Same here! It hits right on the hinky meter, that's for sure! I once had someone who used to work in a ME's office randomly share some information with me on a longstanding popular UID case (that's since been solved). He didn't participate very much on the thread but you could tell that he had an intimate connection to the case. Fingers crossed that xgumshoe and Crimesolver get bored one day and come back!
I think this was planned. So many possibilities on the motive.
But a couple of things strike me.
I think the shooter would have shot them at the boat ramp had they not took up his request for a lift. It would have been a more public crime scene because the shooting would have been in the open and people would have heard the shots.
Waiting to shoot in the car benefitted the shooter. First no one heard the shots. Then more people were probably noticing the accident than it was actually a murder scene. The chaos gave the shooter a great chance to escape. And the auto accident at the second scene provided the same distraction from the shooting. The bicycle was a great way to get away from the chaos and the traffic around the resort area.
I think this was just too well planned to be a spontaneous crime by someone who felt slighted by an incident earlier with the victims. I think there was a reason to shoot all the males in the family and leave the females, this speaks quite a message in many cultures. I really believe that was the shooter's goal - adult or child - kill the males. I wouldn't be surprised if the elder male children might have also been considered as targets but that part of the plan not carried out. But the big question is why.
But a couple of things strike me.
I think the shooter would have shot them at the boat ramp had they not took up his request for a lift. It would have been a more public crime scene because the shooting would have been in the open and people would have heard the shots.
Waiting to shoot in the car benefitted the shooter. First no one heard the shots. Then more people were probably noticing the accident than it was actually a murder scene. The chaos gave the shooter a great chance to escape. And the auto accident at the second scene provided the same distraction from the shooting. The bicycle was a great way to get away from the chaos and the traffic around the resort area.
I think this was just too well planned to be a spontaneous crime by someone who felt slighted by an incident earlier with the victims. I think there was a reason to shoot all the males in the family and leave the females, this speaks quite a message in many cultures. I really believe that was the shooter's goal - adult or child - kill the males. I wouldn't be surprised if the elder male children might have also been considered as targets but that part of the plan not carried out. But the big question is why.
jacko241
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I agree. I know I am a new poster, but I have been a lurker here for years. I have too many hobbies! I have always been interested in Florida crimes from the 60's, 70's and 80's. The poster "xgumshoe" is the one that gives me the most pause. What was his motivation to make such a few posts, and confide some info he didn't want made public to Crimesolver?
jacko241
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It had to be planned in my opinion. Everything points to that, but as you said, why?
Sleuthster
Verified - friend of Wendy Huggy
Not all the males of the family died that day. There was the oldest son. Without going back through the thread, I believe he stayed behind and did not come on the trip because he was working at his father's practice and prepairing for college from what I've read in news stories. I actually have an alumni friend who is close friends with him. They're both doctors now.
Sleuthster
Verified - friend of Wendy Huggy
No. We're not really close friends, just alumni and were in band together back then. I only know because has has photos of them camping and stuff with their kids. My alumni friend also was in the paper for a scandal last year at all childrens as one of the surgeons as was the son.
tilomagnet
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These photos are very graphic but extremely interesting at the same time! I guess the older man sitting in the first pic is Ray Burrows, the only survivor?! If that's the case then he likely was not the prime target as the killer would have made sure to finish him off. In the photo he seems conscious and severely but not critically wounded.
What an incredible disturbing case, the only motive that makes sense to me is indeed a planned (mob) hit. It is baffling that in 40 years LE apparently weren't able to determine who was the prime target here, or maybe they know but arent telling. Could it have been a case of mistaken identity? or maybe the killings were meant as a "message" or threat to demonstrate that the organization would kill anyone in cold blood, even innocent unrelated people?
True. But the plan may have been to also kill him too, either if he'd went on the trip or later (but that part never materialized).
I guess without knowing the motive it's hard to say.
jacko241
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It is a very disturbing case. I keep rereading the known facts, as well as the posts here and elsewhere. I still can't understand why the blurry photo taken of the suspect that day have disappeared from public view.
Why would that happen, and what is the motivation? I can still find other photos of the crime scene, but so far no trace of the suspect photos. Who would benefit from that?
Why would that happen, and what is the motivation? I can still find other photos of the crime scene, but so far no trace of the suspect photos. Who would benefit from that?
Not sure if there was a concentrated effort to whack all of the Dumois male family members... if true then the surviving son would have probably been killed separately at some point as well. There’s also the chance that Barrows was expected to die versus survive, after all very few people survive that kind of injury - if it was a hit on either of the older males in the station wagon the shooter took a great chance by killing more than the intended victim including the kids and the innocent bystander... (although witness elimination was a great motivator) he must have been paid very well to chance multiple murder charges like that. And another thing... the brazen method that the killer employed from start to finish tells me he was very experienced and if ever identified has probably been responsible for many such hits.
tilomagnet
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IF one of the two men had been involved in some shady business and had been threatened by organized crime, I would expect they would have been on the look out and extremely cautious. Not going on a fishing trip with family and inviting strangers into the car. The victims must have been totally unsuspecting.
In the short ABC Report on this crime, there is an interview with Barrows son, which I dont think he would have done if the Barrows family thought the target was RB.
On the other hand, working in a Miami hotel at this time, how could Barrows NOT have been confronted with drug business? So maybe he saw something and did not realize that put him in danger?
In the short ABC Report on this crime, there is an interview with Barrows son, which I dont think he would have done if the Barrows family thought the target was RB.
On the other hand, working in a Miami hotel at this time, how could Barrows NOT have been confronted with drug business? So maybe he saw something and did not realize that put him in danger?
In the case of Barrows, maybe being on the opposite coast gave him some sense of anonymity/safety, or maybe he did not perceive there being a threat at all - that assumes he was the intended target which is not known. I agree that his family members would likely have stayed away from interviews if they knew something more... but there’s always the possibility they did not know as people often compartmentalize things they’re involved in that aren’t of a legal nature. You also raise a good point - “if” Barrows was the intended target he could be innocent of any involvement and just have witnessed something that placed him at risk of elimination. I often wonder how deep of an investigation LE did at the time regarding ties to activities at the hotel.
Raging Ranter
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It's quite possible Barrows was the target. He was shot first, in the head, and maybe the perpetrator believed it was a fatal shot and quickly moved on to the others. One of the documents posted a few pages back had an interview with Dr. Dumois' son Juan Dumois Jr.:
“Juan Dumois advised that apparently R. Barrows had been a witness in some unknown type of criminal offense in which Barrows had testified in court in the Miami area. Dumois stated that he believed it was some type of “payoff” but could provide no further details pertaining to the nature of the offense., time, date, or location, participants or results.”
“Juan Dumois stated that Barrows allegedly attends horse racing, however, does not believe that this occurs on a regular basis. Dumois stated that recently Barrows had discontinued a previous arrangement to provide, along with Dr. Dumois, financial assistance to the grandparents residing in Miami. Juan Dumois could not provide any additional information pertaining to Barrows’ financial status or possible indebtedness.”
I'm sure the police would have followed up on the court case. What stands out is that the police were obviously asking numerous questions about Barrows in particular, since the entire document is Dumois' thoughts on Barrows. That tells me they were at least considering that he was the primary target. Although that could be nothing more than being thorough. It doesn't mean Barrows was involved in anything nefarious either. He could have witnessed something in the course of doing his job, then had to testify in court about it. A "payoff" could be anything, but normally indicates a level of organized corruption... i.e. organized crime.
“Juan Dumois advised that apparently R. Barrows had been a witness in some unknown type of criminal offense in which Barrows had testified in court in the Miami area. Dumois stated that he believed it was some type of “payoff” but could provide no further details pertaining to the nature of the offense., time, date, or location, participants or results.”
“Juan Dumois stated that Barrows allegedly attends horse racing, however, does not believe that this occurs on a regular basis. Dumois stated that recently Barrows had discontinued a previous arrangement to provide, along with Dr. Dumois, financial assistance to the grandparents residing in Miami. Juan Dumois could not provide any additional information pertaining to Barrows’ financial status or possible indebtedness.”
I'm sure the police would have followed up on the court case. What stands out is that the police were obviously asking numerous questions about Barrows in particular, since the entire document is Dumois' thoughts on Barrows. That tells me they were at least considering that he was the primary target. Although that could be nothing more than being thorough. It doesn't mean Barrows was involved in anything nefarious either. He could have witnessed something in the course of doing his job, then had to testify in court about it. A "payoff" could be anything, but normally indicates a level of organized corruption... i.e. organized crime.