Found Deceased FL - Madeline Soto, 13, Missing Child Alert, 13500 blk Town Loop Blvd, Orlando, 26 Feb 2024 *arrest* #10

[photoprose1122]

I feel sort of inconclusive on JS still. Since LE has not named JS has a POI or suspect or anything, and the only charges right now are against SS, the information that is public is obviously directed at the investigation of SS, so I don't feel like we know all that much about JS, really. I think I'm more skeptical of statement and body language analysis than the general consensus of WS users, so certain things that have been red flags for a lot of folks with JS ("we" dropped her off, referring to MS in the past tense, etc.), haven't bothered me as much. I'm leaning toward, right now, there is no significant evidence (known or unknown) that JS was criminally involved in the murder of MS or the attempted cover up.

I feel a bit more confident about my general theory of the case. That is built primarily on the big doc dump because that is what I read most recently and there is a lot in there, less so on the early interviews and press conferences which I haven't watched since they happened, some general absorption of what has been shared here, and not at all on other videos/reporting (like from Court TV or Gray Hughes) because I just don't like watching videos.

Pure speculation alert...
My leading hypothesis: I actually don't think SS is a pedophile. From what we know or have heard about his other preferences and habits, I think he is more of a generic deviant--I don't want to go too deep into this area because it's more just a feeling I have, but there is a path wherein people addicted to p-rnography get numb to "normal" stuff and seek things that are increasingly extreme and end up with CSAM, and I think something similar may be the case for SS. That was more than I wanted to say on that but I think it's relevant because I don't think that MS was going to age out of SS's preferences, as could happen when a pedophile's victim goes through puberty.

I don't think MS told anyone about her abuse. It's not unusual for victims of CSA to not tell anyone or to care for their abusers, which it seems like she did. I couldn't guess how she thought about it or internalized it, but to me it seems like no one in her life had any inkling. Maybe JS had an inkling, I don't know. Maybe if she didn't, she should have. I don't think MS told her, and I definitely don't think SS thought JS knew.

In this hypothesis, SS was at a lot of points lucky and a lot of points brazen. I think he intended to assault/abuse MS on the first night he was back in town, and because he hadn't been around as much in the prior few months,I d something somehow was different and went wrong--maybe MS pushed back--and he regained "control" of the situation by killing her. He then scrambled for how to cover it up, and landed on her going missing some time after he drops her off at school, which included the absurd idea of putting her body in the front seat of his car.

I don't think he ever really assembled a full plan of what he was going to do because he was probably freaking out. I don't think he's some cold-blooded killer, I think he's a coward and killed her out of cowardice. And finally, his luck ran out and his brazen moves caught up to him because he was repeatedly caught on camera moving a dead body, his story was easily falsified, and he gave police consent to search a device he kept CSAM on.

For the JS aspect of this hypothesis, her knowing or being involved just doesn't fit.

I agree with most of your well thought out theory. However, not to be nitpicky, but if someone is abusing a child, he/she is a pedophile, period. Regardless of how he ended up on that track. Maybe he didn’t start out as a pedophile, but once he started getting pleasure from seeing/abusing the body of a child, he certainly became one.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

He chose to become involved with JS when MS was a young girl, and he started grooming and abusing MS quickly. He is the worst kind of predator there is.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I agree with most of your well thought out theory. However, not to be nitpicky, but if someone is abusing a child, he/she is a pedophile, period. Regardless of how he ended up on that track. Maybe he didn’t start out as a pedophile, but once he started getting pleasure from seeing/abusing the body of a child, he certainly became one.

You cannot become a pedophile, sexual attraction is not a choice. The wiring is done in the brain early on. Just as any other sexual attraction, whether it results in criminal behavior or not. A pedophile is a person with a primary sexual attraction to sexually undeveloped children, making it not likely one would be interested in someone already showing signs of onset of puberty. Children smell, look, talk and act in ways that are a part of the attraction. Situational pedophilia doesn't change this, victims of SA incest, frequently fathers assaulting daughters, doesn't make the father/stepfather primary sexual attraction to be young children.

Pedophilia

Pedophilia is an ongoing sexual attraction to pre-pubertal children. It is a paraphilia, a condition in which a person's sexual arousal and gratification depends on objects, activities, or even situations that are considered atypical.

www.psychologytoday.com

What is the age of onset for pedophilia?

The onset of pedophilia comes before adulthood, often during adolescence. In some studies, a minority of those surveyed said that they identified the feelings prior to puberty.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Looks like a trail is upcoming. It seems soon. Am I not understanding what this is showing me?

View attachment 514768

https://courts.osceolaclerk.com/BenchmarkWeb

Is that just on his possession of CSAM? I don't see how a murder trial can come together that soon, unless he is planning on pleading guilty and just being sentenced by the Judge. IDK

MOO

 

[Dre]

I think JS, in her gut, knew there was something wrong, but SS utilized tactics to tear that down at every turn.

His gaslighting methods as seen on his reddit lead me to believe he’s an incredibly quick story weaver who uses guilt and other manipulative tactics to turn things around fast- confusing and shaming can go a long way to controlling a narrative.

I definitely don’t believe MS turning 13 was a reason for him to do this, but perhaps was an age where she decided she was going to take no more. Jmo

 

[BeeGirl]

I just had a random thought/question: does anyone know how often Maddie stayed at grandma’s? I only ask because:

• at p.30 there is testimony where she’d stayed at Grandma’s most of the week; and
• the statement early on that Maddie didn’t know her address; and
• the implication that Maddie would sometimes go to grandma’s office after school; and
• the fact Maddie had no dedicated bedroom at the condo but only a partitioned section of the living room for her belongings; and
• The drive to school from the condo seemed a bit far, leading me to wonder if grandma’s address was used for Maddie to go to that school?

If it is the case that Maddie divided time between the condo of nightmares and grandma’s house, it is somehow even more horrific how often she was abused at the condo. It had to be every time she went.

New question: If Maddie had been at Grandma’s “most of the week” before returning to the condo the night of her party on February 25th, did she see her mother on February 22, 2024 (her actual 13th birthday)?

 

[Pruddennce]

I think JS, in her gut, knew there was something wrong, but SS utilized tactics to tear that down at every turn.

His gaslighting methods as seen on his reddit lead me to believe he’s an incredibly quick story weaver who uses guilt and other manipulative tactics to turn things around fast- confusing and shaming can go a long way to controlling a narrative.

I definitely don’t believe MS turning 13 was a reason for him to do this, but perhaps was an age where she decided she was going to take no more. Jmo

there is also another significant component....according to Madeline's best friend 'she loved SS'<-----no timeframe given. on another note, it was stated she complained about him. from her bestie, all was not right with JS and Madeline's mother/daughter relationship. even in anger, you do not tell your child you are waiting for her 18th birthday to throw her out. IMO, it wasnt your average disagreements or hormonally charged arguments. IMO, the emotional abuse by JS was in response to Madeline's relationship with SS...he was the nucleus......JS was no longer his significant other.

Madeline was turning 13....I think about her as a young child and the following years not questioning...it was the 'norm' for her...but then for instance, 12 years going on 13 is a turning point, as every year emotional responses continually evolve and change. she may have said enough to him, or may have been promised by him to be taken away and live together as a couple. we just dont know what BS he fed her, only that he did, on video, when she was young, promise her things if she did x.

 

[Mack the Knife]

I agree with most of your well thought out theory. However, not to be nitpicky, but if someone is abusing a child, he/she is a pedophile, period. Regardless of how he ended up on that track. Maybe he didn’t start out as a pedophile, but once he started getting pleasure from seeing/abusing the body of a child, he certainly became one.

That is the colloquial understanding, but it is not in line with the more technical definition. For my purposes, I was using a more jargony definition in which a pedophile has a specific sexual preference, separate from if they act on that preference.

This paper has a really good read on the variation of definitions, starting at page 29: https://www.missingkids.org/content/dam/missingkids/pdfs/publications/nc70.pdf (emphasis mine)

Although many recognize the importance of definitions, a major problem is the fact that many terms do not have one universally accepted definition. They have different meanings on different levels to different disciplines. For example the dictionary or lay person’s definition of a “pedophile” is not the same as the psychiatric definition in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders,4th Edition, Text Revision, commonly referred to as the DSM-IV-TR® (American Psychiatric Association, 2000). Legal definitions may not be the same as societal attitudes. The definition problem is most acute when professionals from different disciplines come together to work or communicate about the sexual victimization of children. Definitions are less important when investigating and prosecuting cases and more important when discussing, researching, and writing about the nature and scope of a problem. This publication is an example of the latter. The important point, then, is not that these terms have or should have only one definition but people using the terms should communicate their definitions, whatever they might be, and then consistently use those definitions. Failure to consistently use a definition is often a bigger problem than defining a term.

For the purposes of this publication, when the term pedophile is used it will be defined as a significantly older individual who prefers to have sex with individuals legally considered to be children. Pedophiles are individuals whose erotic imagery and sexual fantasies focus on children. They do not settle for child victims, but, infact, clearly prefer to have sex with children. The law, not puberty, will determine who is a child. The term, therefore, will be applied to those whose sexual behavior involves pubescent children as long as it is part of a true sexual preference and pattern of behavior and not just an isolated opportunity. As previously stated this is inconsistent with the strict diagnostic criteria for pedophilia in the DSM-IV-TR.As will be discussed later, a pedophile is just one example or subcategory of what I refer to as a “preferential sex offender.” The term preferential sex offender is merely a descriptive label used only to identify, for investigative and prosecutive purposes, a certain type of offender. The term preferential sex offender does not appear inthe DSM-IV-TR and it is not intended to imply or to be used for clinical diagnosis.

 

[photoprose1122]

That is the colloquial understanding, but it is not in line with the more technical definition. For my purposes, I was using a more jargony definition in which a pedophile has a specific sexual preference, separate from if they act on that preference.

This paper has a really good read on the variation of definitions, starting at page 29: https://www.missingkids.org/content/dam/missingkids/pdfs/publications/nc70.pdf (emphasis mine)

Gotcha - thank you. I see your point. I misunderstood your previous post; I definitely was leaning on the colloquial understanding. I have a hard time separating the word pedophile from a person that abuses children. Thank you for the explanation.

 

[Gemmie]

Maybe she was unconscious and not dead in the first video. Would that fit within the facts we know?

Yes, which would also support my new theory that she wasn't killed the night before.

 

[Gemmie]

well technically it would because we only know her mouth was open from one video. if on a later video " her body was in the same position:" meant that her mouth was still open then id say no she was likely deceased.

She was seen in the same position in later videos so likely deceased early that morning (due to all the rigor facts as we know them).

Pg 58: At 0819 hours, the Lincoln sedan appears at the front gate where the driver, Stems, interacted with a security guard before being allowed to enter the gate atthe front of the complex. Additional video collected from near the rental office, which captured the roundabout, showed the female, believed to be Maddie, in the same position as the previous video at 0736 hours. At 0831 hours the silver Lincoln exited the back gate, the video captured the female still in the same position as the other videos, still in the front passenger seat.

your mouth will likely remain open unless someone closes it BEFORE RIGOR, sets in and your jaw muscles stiffen making it very difficult to close your mouth
The most important piece (IMO) is that her body was limp, indicating rigor hadn't stiffened her muscles yet.
I think the confusion is about thinking your mouth being open has something to do with rigor. They are separate events . Your mouth opens because when you're dead, you have no muscles working to keep it closed. . Rigor will also not close your mouth, when the muscles stiffen up , whatever position your mouth is in is how it will lock. ( typically open) I know there are all kinds of chemical reactions in the muscles ( as posted) that make them contract etc, but they dont close your mouth.

I'm not 100% convinced. Rigor will contract the muscles of your face making it look like you're grimacing. I'd think LE would know the difference between a rigor grimace and an agap mouth (ajar in their words).

Muscle relaxation immediately after death with opening of the eyes and mouth and subsequent fixation in rigor mortis often occurs after death, giving the face the appearance of grimacing.

rigor mortis begins to appear in the muscles of the eyelids and the jaw (at the earliest, approximately 20 min postmortem); the jaw tightens due to stiffening of the masticatory muscles. (Gemmie's note - I still can't find any info on what contracting, or stiffing, of mouth and jaw muscles looks like. I just know what my mouth is like when I'm stressed and it tightens. And it's not open)

Muscle contraction is not uniform throughout the body but begins in the muscles of the jaw and face, spreads to the trunk, then the lower limbs and lastly the upper limbs. Contractions are sustained and strong.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/rigor-mortis

my only experience is being with 2 people, one I remember her mouth being wide open, the other I dont remember (unexpected and traumatic so I have very little memory of it) I think it was slightly open.

I'm thinking both were fairly close to death, and that rigor hadn't started in on the face yet? It can take up to a couple of hours to start.

 

[Gemmie]

Looks like one new notice was filed yesterday (Notice of Taking Dispositions).



I'm linking to the high level URL as a direct link to the actual file won't work for others: https://courts.osceolaclerk.com/

 

[Gemmie]

I think JS, in her gut, knew there was something wrong, but SS utilized tactics to tear that down at every turn.

His gaslighting methods as seen on his reddit lead me to believe he’s an incredibly quick story weaver who uses guilt and other manipulative tactics to turn things around fast- confusing and shaming can go a long way to controlling a narrative.

I definitely don’t believe MS turning 13 was a reason for him to do this, but perhaps was an age where she decided she was going to take no more. Jmo

That's what I think. I think turning 13, and no longer a child in her mind (still a child to adults), was huge for her. Empowering. To me, pictures of her birthday party she just looked more mature and sure of herself. She was definitely growing up. Sad that was all taken away from her.

 

[PayrollNerd]

2024 CF 000632
STERNS, STEPHAN MICHAEL
CSA/M

Calendar - no changes


Docket, most current document is now available

https://courts.osceolaclerk.com/BenchmarkWeb/CourtCase.aspx/Details/3358251?digest=fsq8Y2OOCS8Hs%2BMisaUobg

 

[PayrollNerd]

2024 CF 001293
STERNS, STEPHAN MICHAEL
FIRST DEGREE MURDER (CAPITAL) (782.04 1a1)

Calendar


Docket


As noted in the prior post, the most current document is now available.

https://courts.osceolaclerk.com/BenchmarkWeb/CourtCase.aspx/Details/3373972?digest=2TtpPNbROnDrudQaKY77WQ

 

[Mack the Knife]

well technically it would because we only know her mouth was open from one video. if on a later video " her body was in the same position:" meant that her mouth was still open then id say no she was likely deceased. Swallowing is an antonomic nervous system function, if she was alive she'd have to close her mouth to swallow. if she was dead, she couldnt swallow. ( thats why I think they were able to determine she was already deceased. Something was evident enough for L/E to tell Jenn she was already deceased.

[snipped and bolded by me as a jumping off point]

As far as I can tell, the only specific evidence of MS being deceased that LE had before locating her body was the surveillance footage of a body in SS's car (first in the complex parking lot and later when he moved her body to the trunk of his car in that parking garage).

• Detective Maira Tagler seems like she might be saying she reviewed footage of SS's vehicle with a slumped over passenger leaving the complex parking lot (not the trash compactor). On the night of 2024-02-27.
• The complex parking lot footage was not available at 2024-02-28 13:45.
• Violent Crimes Squad discovered complex parking lot footage at the trash compactor on or before 2024-02-28 (presumably daytime, as the dumpster was serviced later that day, at which point the contents were reviewed)
• Detective Robert Fischer reviewed the complex parking lot footage (including the trash compactor) on 2024-02-28.
• SS is arrested the evening of 2024-02-28.
• JS is informed that LE is "confident" that MS is dead on the night of 2024-02-29.
• Detective Leonard Jones reviewed the Holiday Inn Club Vacations parking garage footage on 2028-03-01.
• Orange County Sheriff's Office press conference informs the public they have not located MS's body but are confident she is dead, and says footage shows SS in his car with an apparently dead MS. 2024-03-01 13:01.
• Investigators locate MS's body off Old Hickory Tree Road on 2024-03-01 about 16:30.

LE was aware of the complex parking lot footage on 2024-02-28 and was talking to JS just before they arrested SS. I wonder why they chose the next day to inform her they believed MS was dead? Maybe they thought after SS was arrested JS might reveal something? I wonder why that conversation was not described in any incident reports in the doc dump? Maybe they didn't consider it an interview? I also wonder if LE believed MS was dead based off of the initial security gate footage that showed SS leaving the parking lot (found on the 27th) or if they weren't confident until the footage at the trash compactor (found on the 28th).

 

[Sheila Terranova]

You cannot become a pedophile, sexual attraction is not a choice. The wiring is done in the brain early on. Just as any other sexual attraction, whether it results in criminal behavior or not. A pedophile is a person with a primary sexual attraction to sexually undeveloped children, making it not likely one would be interested in someone already showing signs of onset of puberty. Children smell, look, talk and act in ways that are a part of the attraction. Situational pedophilia doesn't change this, victims of SA incest, frequently fathers assaulting daughters, doesn't make the father/stepfather primary sexual attraction to be young children.

Pedophilia

Pedophilia is an ongoing sexual attraction to pre-pubertal children. It is a paraphilia, a condition in which a person's sexual arousal and gratification depends on objects, activities, or even situations that are considered atypical.

www.psychologytoday.com

What is the age of onset for pedophilia?

The onset of pedophilia comes before adulthood, often during adolescence. In some studies, a minority of those surveyed said that they identified the feelings prior to puberty.

?if a father SA his underage daughter he is NOT a pedophile???? I’m confused by that sentence, thanks.