Found Deceased FL - Madeline Soto, 13, Missing Child Alert, 13500 blk Town Loop Blvd, Orlando, 26 Feb 2024 *arrest* #10

[wtiger]

The urgency on the defence side could easily be to prevent LE from further electronic analysis - using the "habeus corpus" - you have a case against me? well let's see what you have!

probably knows that time would only strengthen the prosecution case in my opinion

 

[ttjo]

[bolded by me]

I've heard of, occasionally, policies or local laws requiring victim involvement for criminal case decisions--these are typically for cases involving domestic/intimate partner violence (eg. the state cannot prosecute an abuser without participation from a complaining witness/victim). But by and large, it is just a courtesy for the state to get victim/family approval for any actions.

In the US, it is basically (generalizing here) like this: In a criminal case, the defendant is accused of breaking a law, and the state is the "injured" party for that violation of law, which is why the cases are named something like The People of West Virginia vs. the Defendant. It's a courtesy to have a participating and satisfied victim, and it makes things easier for the prosecution, but it is not a requirement. A civil case is where the victim can directly seek restitution as the injured party.

In practice, I think the prosecution always wants the victim/family to be happy with their actions, but I can think of two factors here that might affect that. First, this case has become very public, and so there will be political, etc. repercussions for whatever the outcome is. Second, there is a possibly complicated family situation to try and consider, since the victim's parents may not be on the same page and the custodial parent (JS) is suspected by some to have been involved in the crime.

Thank you, this makes total sense and sounds fair. It's an ethical consideration, I dont know if they could do it any other way. Imagine how difficult things would be if you had to have family approval ( the issues: exactly what you said above)
Prosecutors have an ethical duty to prosecute when possible (if enough evidence to convict etc) and also an ethical duty to maintain the public's faith in the justice system.

 

[Mack the Knife]

Thank you, this makes total sense and sounds fair. It's an ethical consideration, I dont know if they could do it any other way. Imagine how difficult things would be if you had to have family approval ( the issues: exactly what you said above)
Prosecutors have an ethical duty to prosecute ( if enough evidence to convict etc) and also an ethical duty to maintain the public's faith in the justice system.

Strays from the topic here a bit, but IMO it can also be a horrible thing to put on a victim/family. Should an offender's fate be in a victim's/family's hands? Should outcomes be impacted by how much weight, how many resources, a victim/family is able to put into the case? Should offenders be incentivized to victimize high-risk victims for whom no one cares? Should a victim/family be burdened with tracking hearings (eg. parole, sentencing) and deciding if or how to be involved?

For justice's sake, I get the desire to appease and please the victim/family, but I think there is a danger in intentionally reducing objectivity in the system. A very difficult thing to weigh.


To take it back to this case: I think the case is so public, and public distrust of JS is so high, I can't imagine prosecutors would openly consider specifically her opinion here. Also because of the publicity (and because, though the timing didn't work this way because of when the law was passed, the CSA crimes are considered by Florida to be death penalty-worthy), I can't imagine the death penalty being taken off the table for SS. Even if SS pleads guilty, unless the death penalty is waived by the prosecution, a jury makes the decision on the death penalty, unless SS waives the right to a jury. It's not clear to me what happens if he waives the jury there, but I imagine that means a judge makes the decision, and the judge would still want to evaluate the same evidence that a jury would be privy to. And after a death sentence is imposed, the Florida Supreme Court reviews every single case, even if the defendant doesn't want it. So I think there is no way to get out of enduring hearings and difficult things entered into evidence (for the victim's/family's benefit) and thus no way for SS to get out of the prosecution seeking the death penalty.

 

[ttjo]

Lock him up and throw away the prison.

JMO

The whole prison or just the key? lol. I vote for the whole prison.

 

[Vaderman]

Now that the four month mark has passed, I wonder why the mother still hasn't faced any charges.

 

[Megnut]

What could be worse than what they already know, we have a play-by-play on CCTV.
I know there is likely no plea deal, but asking for info only.
In the US would a family need to agree to a plea deal or can the state make that offer on their own?

The State might be in conversation with a family, but ultimately it's the State's position that matters.

Not saying they will or should, but the State could drop the murder charges if he were to plead guilty to the CSA, which carries the DP all by itself in Florida. A solid guilty plea might preclude appeal. Tie it up tight.

I always need to remind myself that the US criminal justice system is not about justice for the victims. It is exclusively for justice for the criminal. Fair trial, appointed counsel, rule of law, etc. We take our freedoms seriously here, as well the repeal of them.

Much for the State to weigh.

Practical matters. The charges. The costs. The scope. The witnesses. The victims.

The CSA alone will bury him. He pleads guilty, the State can be spared the cost and effort to prosecute him for the murder.

He's not going anywhere, well except from jail to prison, really only a matter of WHERE in prison he goes. Death Row or solitary.

I don't believe in the DP for my own personal reasons, but SS is exactly the kind of violation against humanity for violating a child for whom the DP was invented.

JMO

 

[Mack the Knife]

Now that the four month mark has passed, I wonder why the mother still hasn't faced any charges.

What kind of charges are you thinking?

Personally, IMO, I'd be shocked if she is ever charged for the murder or cover-up. Regardless of suspicions, none of the publicly available evidence inculpates JS in any specific involvement, while it is plenty damning for SS. SS could be a witness against her, but no one would trust him.

I'm not familiar with what charges might be applicable if it is the case that JS did not actively participate in MS's murder nor the cover-up. Are bad parents/guardians typically charged after the murder of their children, if they were not directly involved with the murder? I'm thinking, for example, of Audrii Cunningham, whose accused murderer Don Steven Mcdougal lived in a trailer on the property of Audrii's home and sometimes was left alone with her, despite a significant violent history, several white supremacist tattoos, and a conviction for crimes against a child.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Now that the four month mark has passed, I wonder why the mother still hasn't faced any charges.

Maybe, it's possible that LE have found zero evidence to charge her with any crime?

Keeping in mind, MS's mother was never named as a suspect in this case, by LE.
Yes, there will be claims that she was also never "ruled out" by those who have treated her essentially as guilty of knowing, or covering, or even participating in the vile acts of abuse against her, but here we are, months later and no charges against anyone but SS.

Those are the facts as it stands to date, in this case. One suspect, currently charged, in custody, awaiting trial.

 

[Seattle1]

I see what you're saying , @Gemmie. The first trial is the murder trial and it's in another week!!! That can't be right. I don't understand what's going on with these trial dates. MOO, it's too soon for either really.​

Case Number:2024 CF 001293
View attachment 516147

https://courts.osceolaclerk.com/BenchmarkWeb/Home.aspx/Search

From the Docket, we know the trial date was set back in April and more recently, the defense noticed the Court that the defendant waived his appearance the earlier pretrial hearing scheduled for 7/10/24. I expect we will learn of the revised trial date at the pretrial hearing:

WAIVER OF DEFENDANT'S ATTENDANCE AT PRETRIAL CONFERENCECOMES NOW the Defendant, by and through the undersigned attorney, pursuant to Florida Rule of Criminal Procedure 3.180(a)(3), and hereby waives the presence of the accused at pretrial conference. The undersigned attorney will appear on behalf of the accused at all scheduled pretrial conferences.

4/29/2024	JURY TRIAL SET FOR 07/16/2024 AT 9:00 AM IN 4F BEFORE JUDGE: CARSTEN, KEITH
		4/29/2024	PRETRIAL SET FOR 07/10/2024 AT 10:00 AM IN 4F BEFORE JUDGE: CARSTEN, KEITH

https://courts.osceolaclerk.com/BenchmarkWeb/CourtCase.aspx/Details/3373972?digest=0ysDpGTN4H%2BPev6I58rZ7Q

 

[tlcya]

Maybe, it's possible that LE have found zero evidence to charge her with any crime?

Keeping in mind, MS's mother was never named as a suspect in this case, by LE.
Yes, there will be claims that she was also never "ruled out" by those who have treated her essentially as guilty of knowing, or covering, or even participating in the vile acts of abuse against her, but here we are, months later and no charges against anyone but SS.

Those are the facts as it stands to date, in this case. One suspect, currently charged, in custody, awaiting trial.

If JS hadn't given such very public, very conflicting statements in the early days of this case and hadn't admitted to the regular practice of directed her minor daughter and boyfriend to share a bed we probably wouldn't be discussing when or whether charges will eventually be levied against her. But she did all those things, and so here we are.

Personally, I am still on that fence. I hop off briefly on one side or another but never stay long. Maybe she is guilty of nothing more than being a hot mess, too naive, too trusting. But given what happened to her child, even if she knew nothing, I will still struggle seeing her as a victim. jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

If JS hadn't given such very public, very conflicting statements in the early days of this case and hadn't admitted to the regular practice of directed her minor daughter and boyfriend to share a bed we probably wouldn't be discussing when or whether charges will eventually be levied against her. But she did all those things, and so here we are.

Personally, I am still on that fence. I hop off briefly on one side or another but never stay long. Maybe she is guilty of nothing more than being a hot mess, too naive, too trusting. But given what happened to her child, even if she knew nothing, I will still struggle seeing her as a victim. jmo

It's important to remember, LE never once accused JS of giving them conflicting statements.
That allegation was made my media (and the reason stated for us allowing to discuss her as a suspect), and fed by other media & folks in the social media sphere, and folks here & elsewhere discussing her.

Given what happened to her child, I will 100% see her as a victim (of both poor choices as well as a predatory child raping murderous monster) until or unless LE tells me that is not the case.

So far, they have not given me reason to believe that.

jmo

 

[Gemmie]

It's important to remember, LE never once accused JS of giving them conflicting statements.
That allegation was made my media (and the reason stated for us allowing to discuss her as a suspect), and fed by other media & folks in the social media sphere, and folks here & elsewhere discussing her.

Given what happened to her child, I will 100% see her as a victim (of both poor choices as well as a predatory child raping murderous monster) until or unless LE tells me that is not the case.

So far, they have not given me reason to believe that.

jmo

While LE never said JS "gave us conflicting statements", what they did say was "there were several inconsistencies in the information provided". To me, that's the same thing.

Pg 876 - While completing interviews and after reviewing available information using investigative resources, I noted there were several inconsistencies in the information provided. JS originally provided to Deputy Joseph that she last saw Maddie on the morning of February 26, 2024 getting ready for school at approximately 0800 hours. In my interview with her, she stated she last saw Maddie on the night of February 25 at approximately 2300 hours and only possibly heard her the next morning.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

One of the police reports stated that JS was talking about Maddie in the past tense very early on.

That spoke volumes to me.

I would be interested to know how many parents here can envision themselves speaking about their missing child in the past tense within a week at most of the child going missing.

ETA: I am not a parent myself.

 

[photographer4]

Maybe, it's possible that LE have found zero evidence to charge her with any crime?

Keeping in mind, MS's mother was never named as a suspect in this case, by LE.
Yes, there will be claims that she was also never "ruled out" by those who have treated her essentially as guilty of knowing, or covering, or even participating in the vile acts of abuse against her, but here we are, months later and no charges against anyone but SS.

Those are the facts as it stands to date, in this case. One suspect, currently charged, in custody, awaiting trial.

Well, I think they probably suspect her of certain crimes against Ms (eg: failure to protect from SA or aware of her murder / aid and abetting in a cover up scheme) but perhaps they don’t feel they can adequately prove it to a judge / jury.

I base this statement on the remarks by LE wherein they noted that everyone close to Ms was a suspect, and given that to date, they have made no statement to suggest that they do not suspect her of any crimes against Ms.

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/l...0was,until%20we%20have%20proven%20otherwise.”

You’d think they’d go out of their way to tell the public via the media that she wasn’t involved and would rally support behind her. Maybe my expectations are just too high here? TIMELINE: Here’s where things stand in Madeline Soto case after prime suspect charged with first-degree murder

 

[photographer4]

It's important to remember, LE never once accused JS of giving them conflicting statements.
That allegation was made my media (and the reason stated for us allowing to discuss her as a suspect), and fed by other media & folks in the social media sphere, and folks here & elsewhere discussing her.

Given what happened to her child, I will 100% see her as a victim (of both poor choices as well as a predatory child raping murderous monster) until or unless LE tells me that is not the case.

So far, they have not given me reason to believe that.

jmo

JS isn’t a victim of bad choices. I refuse to minimize what happened to Ms to this sentiment. JS invited the monster into their lives and didn’t just keep him there - she sent her child to bed with him. Repeatedly. I don’t care if she is charged or not as nothing will bring her daughter back anyhow and she has to live with this for the rest of her life but I think it’s a great disservice to the memory of Ms to minimize this down to JS is a victim of bad choices.

Ontario Mom - I quoted your post but this is NOT directed at you personally and I’m sorry if it comes across as an attack. It isn’t meant to be and was only a jumping off point for what I believe is the larger issue of how things like this continue to happen in society time after time.

 

[ttjo]

Pg 876 - While completing interviews and after reviewing available information using investigative resources, I noted there were several inconsistencies in the information provided. JS originally provided to Deputy Joseph that she last saw Maddie on the morning of February 26, 2024 getting ready for school at approximately 0800 hours. In my interview with her, she stated she last saw Maddie on the night of February 25 at approximately 2300 hours and only possibly heard her the next morning.

Doesnt that just beg the question " if she didnt see her, how could she speak to what she was last seen wearing?"
were her clothes set out for her? did she always wear gym clothes on Mondays? She didnt just guess, she corrected Sterns account of what she was wearing, why?

 

[ttjo]

Doesnt that just beg the question " if she didnt see her, how could she speak to what she was last seen wearing?"
were her clothes set out for her? did she always wear gym clothes on Mondays? She didnt just guess, she corrected Sterns account of what she was wearing, why?

Im not saying she was involved in Maddi's murder or the cover-up, but she did some things that made her look suspicious, If she didn't do it to cover for him, then what other reason could there be?

 

[Seattle1]

From the Docket, we know the trial date was set back in April and more recently, the defense noticed the Court that the defendant waived his appearance the earlier pretrial hearing scheduled for 7/10/24. I expect we will learn of the revised trial date at the pretrial hearing:

WAIVER OF DEFENDANT'S ATTENDANCE AT PRETRIAL CONFERENCECOMES NOW the Defendant, by and through the undersigned attorney, pursuant to Florida Rule of Criminal Procedure 3.180(a)(3), and hereby waives the presence of the accused at pretrial conference. The undersigned attorney will appear on behalf of the accused at all scheduled pretrial conferences.

4/29/2024	JURY TRIAL SET FOR 07/16/2024 AT 9:00 AM IN 4F BEFORE JUDGE: CARSTEN, KEITH
		4/29/2024	PRETRIAL SET FOR 07/10/2024 AT 10:00 AM IN 4F BEFORE JUDGE: CARSTEN, KEITH

https://courts.osceolaclerk.com/BenchmarkWeb/CourtCase.aspx/Details/3373972?digest=0ysDpGTN4H%2BPev6I58rZ7Q

Sterns defense filed a Motion to Continue on 7/9/24:

Filing # 202106365 E-Filed 07/09/2024 09:54:13 AM
Case Number:2024 CF 001293

https://courts.osceolaclerk.com/BenchmarkWeb/Home.aspx/Search

 

[Seattle1]

Case Number:2024 CF 000632 (CSAM)

Defense also requesting continuance for 8/19/24 Jury Trial

VIEWER	IMAGE	DATE	ENTRY
	Requested	7/9/2024	MOTION TO CONTINUE
	Requested	7/9/2024	WAIVER OF PRESENCE AT PRETRIAL CONFERENCE
	1	6/11/2024	NOTICE OF PROVISION OF DISCOVERY
		4/24/2024	WAIVER OF SPEEDY TRIAL
	2	4/24/2024	ORDER GRANTING MOTION TO CONTINUE PRETRIAL HELD THE COURT, HAVING REVIEWED THE DEFENSE'S MOTION TO CONTINUE, HEREBY GRANTS THE MOTION TO CONTINUE FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS: A. DEFENSE NOT SUFFICIENTLY PREPARED FOR TRIAL THE NON-MOVING PARTY DOES NOT OBJECT TO THE MOTION TO CONTINUE ARRAIGNMENT ON AMENDED INFORMATION WAIVED PLEA NOT GUILTY ENTERED CASE RESET FOR PRETRIAL AND TRIAL
		4/24/2024	JURY TRIAL SET FOR 08/19/2024 AT 9:00 AM IN 4F BEFORE JUDGE: CARSTEN, KEITH
		4/24/2024	PRETRIAL SET FOR 07/10/2024 AT 1:30 PM IN 4F BEFORE JUDGE: CARSTEN, KEITH
	1	4/23/2024	WAIVER OF DEFENDANT'S ATTENDANCE AT PRETRIAL CONFERENCE

https://courts.osceolaclerk.com/BenchmarkWeb/Home.aspx/Search

 

[Gemmie]

Im not saying she was involved in Maddi's murder or the cover-up, but she did some things that made her look suspicious, If she didn't do it to cover for him, then what other reason could there be?

Ignorance? And I don't mean that as a diss to JS.