FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse nightclub, Orlando, 12 June 2016 #2

[human]

I am an American, Baptist, gun owner, conservative who did not like how the gov't handled Ruby Ridge and Waco, but luckily I'm not a killer or terriorist . I am glad TM got the DP for his crimes.

Luckily, there is no law that says that you should be imprisoned for your sympathies.

 

[human]

Most homophobic, racists people never join a group or proclaim allegiance to a group calling for the murder of said peoples. Hate is one thing. Murder/violence is another. I don't know how to state that anymore clearly. If there was a group of people actively seeking to murder others and calling for members to do just that, I would say arrest every member.

You may wish to,read about the hate groups on the Southern Poverty Law Center.

 

[Dogface]

There are all kinds of groups that it is legal to belong to. Read on the Southern Poverty Law Center about hate groups. It is perfectly legal to be a member of Posse Comitus or Christian Identify or KKK.

And if those groups are actively asking members to murder people and people are carrying out crimes and murder in their name jail them all. How more clearly can I state my opinion on this? A group that is hateful is one thing, a group that calls for members to commit crimes is another. IMO it's a pretty big distinction.

Human, I stated my opinion. You stated yours. Let's direct the focus back to the victims or actual facts from this crime for the sake of the thread. Clearly we see things different. And that's ok.

 

[rsd1200]

Do we, though? I was under the impression that Sharia Law called for death to gays, not Islam. Sharia Law, from my understanding, is a set of rules from a sect that have interpreted Islam in their own sick and twisted way. Kind of like how a very small percentage of Mormons practice polygamy, but most Mormons are just as shocked and bothered by a man having multiple wives as you or I would be.

Gay people are generally seen as sinners to extremely devout Muslims and Christians alike, but I've never heard the mainstream form of Islam that 99.9% of Muslims practice promoted killing gays. Please provide a link to this information if it does.. Thank you.

About the many victims, I really am just at a loss. It's a horrible situation already, but seeing the mothers waiting to hear if their child survived or not makes me completely lose it every time. No mother should have to go through anything like that ever. No person should have to go from dancing and having fun to watching their friends get shot or being shot to death themselves. It makes me absolutely livid that these young people with so much life left to live were forced to sit there for hours in absolute fear while they bled to death because some worthless piece of trash was selfish, evil, and heartless enough to appoint himself their judge, jury, and executioner when they'd done absolutely nothing wrong.

I'll continue to donate daily because that $1 million doesn't seem like much when there is such an incredibly large amount of people who will need their medical bills paid, therapy, funeral services, etc. I'm way on the other side of America so giving blood isn't an option. I wish they would give us more ways to help or show our support. I wonder if they'll eventually accept sympathy cards for the victims and their families?

ISIS is the sect that has twisted Islam into their own specific religion. Sharia Law is totally different. ISIS kills more Muslims/Islamic people than they do any other group. When ISIS told the Islamic religious leaders to promote their brand of Islam, and the leaders refused, they slaughtered them.

 

[Treelights]

You know what's really sad, how many more names we are going to learn. How many families are going to be torn apart. Such unnecessary cruelty in a world where it's already complicated enough. And here we are, again, stuck trying to figure out how to keep people from hurting others with no clear plan, no easy fix, no easy answers.

When Terroristic Radicals Believe that murdering people is the Right thing to do in Their Minds, because they don't like them, and don't agree with their lifestyle, how does one change their perception, when this is Their Reality, Their Religion of Hate? How can they change that Hate to LOVE??

IMOO.

 

[CSIDreamer]

He picked one of the most popular gay bars in Orlando (correct me if I'm wrong). On a Saturday night when it would most likely be near capacity. You are right CARIIS, if he was wanting to make a statement just to ISIS, he could have done that in his own hometown at a local festival, movie theater, etc... But, I looked, and there's almost nil gay bars in Ft Pierce. This was a hatred toward gays, and he tossed a bone to ISIS.

I've been sitting here reading about The Pulse. Kind of horror stricken with the what ifs. From what I read it sounds like it was nothing to have 800 people in there. It doesn't look that huge from outside pictures.

 

[sonjay]

They were present at the murders. Most were released.

Yeah, they were eventually released. After being charged, regardless of whether they did anything illegal at the shootout. They were eventually released days/weeks/months later, after being held in jail, not being able to work, having to pay lawyers, etc.

 

[Dogface]

When Terroristic Radicals Believe that murdering people is the Right thing to do in Their Minds, because they don't like them, and don't agree with their lifestyle, how does one change their perception, when this is Their Reality, Their Religion of Hate? How can they change that Hate to LOVE??

IMOO.

I wish I knew. I think fanatics may be impossible to reason with. But I'm no psychologist, so perhaps there is something that can be done. I hope there is.

 

[Sonya610]

There are all kinds of groups that it is legal to belong to. Read on the Southern Poverty Law Center about hate groups. It is perfectly legal to be a member of Posse Comitus or Christian Identify or KKK.

Big difference between ISIS and the KKK. We are actively at war with ISIS, they are considered a hostile FOREIGN state.

Showing support or declaring allegiance to ISIS would be like declaring you support and desire to join the Nazi Party during WWII. That would be considered offering aid and support to an enemy of the United States.

There is a big red line between associating with fringe domestic groups and sympathizing/supporting enemies of the U.S. during wartime.

It should also be noted that declaring allegiance to an enemy state during wartime constitutes "voluntarily relinquishing US Citizenship". Any US citizen that has declared allegiance to ISIS should immediately have their citizenship evoked.

 

[glf]

Just wanted to let all the people out there my sincere sympathy for this horrible and senseless crime. I too would be surprised if I saw a gay couple kissing in public. However, I might feel a little queasy and turn my head, but would never consider retaliating in any shape, form or fashion… There's no way we can live in a democratic country and not see things that bother us. Regardless of how these victims lived their lives, they shouldn't have been mowed down like a pack of wild rabid dogs.

 

[Renee110]

I've been sitting here reading about The Pulse. Kind of horror stricken with the what ifs. From what I read it sounds like it was nothing to have 800 people in there. It doesn't look that huge from outside pictures.

I really don't understand how it's legal to only have one way in and one way out.... movie theatres have to have emergency exits in every room. A business that can hold that many people needs to have several exits imo.

 

[rsd1200]

Ramadan began June 6 and runs through July 05/2016.. Likely the catalyst for the attack, imo..

Agree.

 

[tehcloser]

When Dylann Roof shot up that black church and left a manifesto saying it was racially motivated violence, along with a couple of his favorite race related websites did ANYONE say "No way, this couldn't be motivated by white racism, there must be other reasons".

Nobody said that! Everyone accepted the reason given at face value because it reaffirms what they were already TAUGHT TO BELIEVE.

Yet in this case many will never believe the obvious motive even though it was clearly stated. They simply do not want to believe it, they were taught that believing it would make them a bad person, so they will never ever believe it or accept it.

I accept that he did this as Isis. What I don't accept is that he did not target the lgbt community because he did. Some seem to think that they are two separate things. They are not . Imo To ignore that this club and these people were targeted...is wrong. It's like demeaning to the victims. And they have been treated as less far too long as it is.

 

[tehcloser]

Just wanted to let all the people out there my sincere sympathy for this horrible and senseless crime. I too would be surprised if I saw a gay couple kissing in public. However, I might feel a little queasy and turn my head, but would never consider retaliating in any shape, form or fashion… There's no way we can live in a democratic country and not see things that bother us. Regardless of how these victims lived their lives, they shouldn't have been mowed down like a pack of wild rabid dogs.

Queasy? Whew, another blessing for me. I'm so glad love between two people does not make me queasy.

 

[rsd1200]

We need to ban airline tickets and box cutters too.

We don't blame the airplanes for 9-11. Taking away guns will not stop violence. Hatred always finds a way. Actually using planes as bombs was very effective, wasn't it? The Shoe Bomber had no gun. The Boston Marathon bombers caused havoc with pressure cookers. Suicide vests are doing the job to kill overseas...no guns. Biological weapons ...and, one day, as Iran is now on the nuclear path...nuclear weapons ...that is coming too. There's a commonality here, but it is not guns.

All the guns can be confiscated tomorrow...and it won't stop zealotry, hate or terrorism. It will just change the methodology. It's a side discussion, one people can respectfully have, but it's only a side issue.

You're not allowed to take a multitude of things on an airplane after 911.Try it and find out what happens. That's why I prefer to drive everywhere now. Flying is a hassle. It's necessary for it to be a hassle, but I'd prefer not deal with it unless I just have to. I remember when flying was enjoyable. It's not anymore. I'm a gun owner and if someone is on a terror watch list and not allowed to board a plane then they should not legally be allowed to buy a gun. Non-violent felons are not permitted to legally buy, or own, a firearm, so why not people on terror watch lists? IMO they are much more scary than a non-violent felon. Based on TOS I won't go any further on the topic.

 

[sonjay]

He picked one of the most popular gay bars in Orlando (correct me if I'm wrong). On a Saturday night when it would most likely be near capacity. You are right CARIIS, if he was wanting to make a statement just to ISIS, he could have done that in his own hometown at a local festival, movie theater, etc... But, I looked, and there's almost nil gay bars in Ft Pierce. This was a hatred toward gays, and he tossed a bone to ISIS.

Omar Mateen, whose bloody siege inside a packed Orlando gay nightclub ended when SWAT teams stormed the building and killed him, was a radical Muslim who followed Marcus Dwayne Robertson, a law enforcement source said.

“It is no coincidence that this happened in Orlando,” said a law enforcement source familiar with Robertson’s history of recruiting terrorists and inciting violence. “Mateen was enrolled in [Robertson’s online] Fundamental Islamic Knowledge Seminary.”
​

http://www.fox29.com/news/158464009-story


When the Tsarnaev brothers bombed the Boston Marathon, no one claimed it was because of jogger-phobia.

When Farook & Malik shot up the San Bernardino Inland Regional Center, no one claimed it was because of hatred of public health workers.

When the planes flew into the WTC towers, no one claimed it was due to a hatred of NYC office workers.

Those were Islamic terrorism, and this was Islamic terrorism. Islamic terrorists hate everybody who is is not one of them.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Just on CNN

FBI Director to speak at 12:15 EST

 

[Sonya610]

Odd that he didn't shoot anyone else in the 3 hours.

He did keep shooting people. He took the time to shoot the wounded victims again, he also went into other rooms and found new victims.

Keep in mind the swat team and police had the building surrounded early on so they may not want to advertise the fact that the shootings continued for hours while they discussed strategy.

See victim account here: http://video.foxnews.com/v/49379365...ivor-he-wanted-to-kill-us-all/?#sp=show-clips

 

[Magdalyn]

Only Islamic? What about all the other shooters that were not Islamic?

I didn't think this was a gun control thread.

I though this thread was about a terrorist who called 911, pledged allegiance to ISIS (an Islamic group), and invoked the Boston bombers (not gunners), just before murdering 49 people?

 

[sonjay]

Most homophobic, racists people never join a group or proclaim allegiance to a group calling for the murder of said peoples. Hate is one thing. Murder/violence is another. I don't know how to state that anymore clearly. If there was a group of people actively seeking to murder others and calling for members to do just that, I would say arrest every member.

There is such a group. Most commonly known as ISIS. Sometimes aka ISIL or Daesh.