FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, brutally murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #2

[CARIIS]

I don't live in Florida, but many of you do. I'm not sure I understand the total process. Too technical for me. Anyways --
What about the Florida Sunshine Laws which allowed for a lot of shared info in the Casey Anthony case?
I think it has also helped in the Sievers case.
Yet, not as much was shared in the Billings case. I don't know if it is media driven to get the info made public, but it seems to allow access to the info.
Federal agencies don't fall under it though. However, I think we will find out the tox results sometime soon. The grand jury went for first degree murder which I think indicates more than a sudden mental illness.

What is the Sunshine Law?
http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/Main/321B47083D80C4CD8525791B006A54E3

:cow: MOO ... I want to know if he was on any drugs.

I do too Curious - all the tox results- imo he def still medicated--he has got the Risperdol gaze moo

I also believe there is video of him in the community - would be interesting how he is walking etc

 

[Curious Me]

Everyone will have an opinion and here's mine.

They needed the Grand Jury to upgrade his charges to first- degree murder if they are going to go for the Death Penalty. I know the victim's family wants a Death Penalty trial. MOO, for how costly and full of appeals a DP trial is, it may not be worth it because I don't think he'd get a DP conviction anyways. Horrible crimes resulting in the death of two people, yes, but... IMO, whether he was on flakka or some drugs, or suffering a sudden psychotic break, and even though the charges were upped, MOO, the crimes do not seem planned or under his control or choice. I think that it going to matter a great deal to jurors in a DP trial.

Judge denies bond for Austin Harrouff
Updated: 5:39 PM EST Nov 9, 2016
http://www.wpbf.com/article/judge-denies-bond-for-austin-harrouff/8264335

There is no word yet on whether the State Attorney’s Office will be pursuing the death penalty in this case. Harrouff is charged with two counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted first-degree murder. His attorney refused to comment Wednesday.

 

[glf]

I'm sure the SD, the DA, and several others are mulling everything over, deciding what route to take. If he was to get the death penalty, things will take probably a min of 15 years after trial for mandatory appeals, unless he states he doesn't want any appeals, before anything takes place. I have heard where a few death row inmates have denied all appeals, but none of them were first time offenders, or 19 years old.

 

[Curious Me]

We still don't know if AH took flakka or any drug before killing two innocent people.

I know we've discussed the dangers of these newer drugs. Here's another one, PINK, that sounds just awful.

Feds Move to Ban Pink, Drug That's Killed Dozens
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fe...rug-thats-killed-dozens/ar-AAk8XUH?li=BBnb7Kz

"This stuff is so powerful that if you touch it, you could go into cardiac arrest," Park City Police Chief Wade Carpenter told NBC News at the time.

 

[glf]

Just what we need. Another potentially lethal substance that is almost as easy to obtain as liquor.

 

[Flatbush]

We still don't know if AH took flakka or any drug before killing two innocent people.

I know we've discussed the dangers of these newer drugs. Here's another one, PINK, that sounds just awful.

Feds Move to Ban Pink, Drug That's Killed Dozens
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fe...rug-thats-killed-dozens/ar-AAk8XUH?li=BBnb7Kz

"This stuff is so powerful that if you touch it, you could go into cardiac arrest," Park City Police Chief Wade Carpenter told NBC News at the time.

I for the life of me cannot comprehend WHY someone would put something in their body that even has the history of these drugs.
I do not use alcohol or anything else (due to my health issues), but I don't have a problem with one having a few drinks, or even smoking a joint. But this stuff, and that flakka... wowzers. No respect for their own health or life.

I have a question about this sunshine law Florida has. ( Yes, its time for me to ask my occasional off the wall question concerning something I have no clue about! )
This sunshine law, does LE HAVE to release information, or do they have the option not to release it? I am in Ohio, much different here.

TIA! :tyou:

 

[Curious Me]

I can't really answer some of my own questions about Florida's Sunshine Law in regard to first degree murder criminal cases, but if I could I'd start charging attorney fees.

My guess, as in I don't really know, is once a state agency (federal agencies aren't included) has and uses information in a public way, say as in a legal releasing of discovery leading up to a trial, then that information can be obtained by media or the public. I also would guess. there could be a gag order placed on the info for a certain length of time by a judge for various reasons, but not sure about that either.

Remember when Casey Anthony was going to trial? As soon as there was a document dump of discovery shared between LE and the attorneys then media and the public had access to it.

About Florida's Sunshine Law
The following questions and answers are intended to be used as a reference only -- interested parties should refer to the Florida Statutes and applicable case law before drawing legal conclusions.
•What is the Sunshine Law?
Open Government - Frequently Asked Questions
http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/Main/321B47083D80C4CD8525791B006A54E3

Florida's Government-in-the-Sunshine Law was enacted in 1967. Today, the Sunshine Law regarding open government can be found in Chapter 286 of the Florida Statutes. These statutes establish a basic right of access to most meetings of boards, commissions and other governing bodies of state and local governmental agencies or authorities.

Throughout the history of Florida's open government, its courts have consistently supported the public's right of access to governmental meetings and records. As such, they also have been defining and redefining what a public record is and who is covered under the open meetings law. One area of public concern was whether or not the Legislature was covered under the open meetings requirements. To address that concern, a Constitutional amendment was passed overwhelmingly by the voters in 1990 providing for open meetings in the legislative branch of government

http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/Main/DC0B20B7DC22B7418525791B006A54E4

Grand Jury Section WHAT IS A GRAND JURY?
http://www.sa15.state.fl.us/StateAttorney/ouroffice/Divisions/indexHGJ.htm

 

[Flatbush]

Interesting thank you! I will save this to refer back to later.

Sent from my VS810PP using Tapatalk

 

[CARIIS]

I for the life of me cannot comprehend WHY someone would put something in their body that even has the history of these drugs.
I do not use alcohol or anything else (due to my health issues), but I don't have a problem with one having a few drinks, or even smoking a joint. But this stuff, and that flakka... wowzers. No respect for their own health or life.

I have a question about this sunshine law Florida has. ( Yes, its time for me to ask my occasional off the wall question concerning something I have no clue about! )
This sunshine law, does LE HAVE to release information, or do they have the option not to release it? I am in Ohio, much different here.

TIA! :tyou:

I think it was really a crock of political stuff when it passed! Look at all the nonsense that went on with Pulse info.

It is the same as why are some court trials broadcast and some not - I think it was political like look how transparent, here in FL we are going to be.


But when media asks for something the answer vairies - its maddening.

Sunshine law yeh like Pike COunty !!

 

[SpanishInquisition]

New info:
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...Drank-Alcohol-Night-of-Murders-401180796.html

 

[Jax49]

http://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/cr...t-guilty-court-martin-county-murder/93806280/

Chief Assistant State Attorney Tom Bakkedahl has said if Harrouff's lawyers plan to use an insanity defense, they must alert the state no more than 15 days after his scheduled Nov. 16 arraignment, which he won't have to attend because he already submitted paperwork pleading not guilty.

 

[strawberry]

New info:
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...Drank-Alcohol-Night-of-Murders-401180796.html

Weed and alcohol ain't gonna do that. That's your typical college student right there


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CARIIS]

said if Harrouff's lawyers plan to use an insanity defense


In a lot of cases I hate it when they use the word "use"


For months he was making biziarre videos, he has superpowers, turtle shells send him somewhere, and he is having a cheek sandwhich - exactly what is it the media needs to say he plead insanity because he IS mentally ill?

It is a real "entity", and IMO as long as media uses terminology like this we will continue to miss warning signs of mass shooters, serial killers, rapists.

Have they ever reported that someone "used" their cancer as an "excuse" for a symptom.

He is mentally disturbed, its not a "character" flaw - its a neurotransmitter issue-- he is ill.
Things are not firing.

They are not IMO using anything. If drugs come back, that is IMO an mitigating factor, which in and of itself is an indicator of wanting to change or alter "state of mind" which takes us back IMO. to the core issue from the beginning- their are ill people .

A couple of posts back said they are gonna release stuff - isn't that refreshing!

 

[glf]

What kind of alibi is he going to try to prove? Out of body experience, hallucinations, evil twin? He must be living in some kind of dream world if he thinks ANYTHING like that is going to fly! It'll go over like a lead balloon. :gasp::gasp:

 

[Curious Me]

This case was headed for the mental illness defense from the beginning. That's why an article like the one below was written within a week of the crimes, and his father rushed to get on the DrP show.

It gets cloudy for me if there are substances involved (something like flakka or steroids, although weed and alcohol is mentioned now, it just clouds the issue for me) because it's not really a result of "the condition" which wasn't even diagnosed before. They're probably going to have to rely on those videos he made as proof that he was mentally ill, but to me it would still matter if he was on something all the while he was making those videos. I struggle with these questions as I follow all these cases, and I'm glad I'm not on the jury. Self medicating and losing your mind because you're unhappy or because you're mentally ill, and then killing people...is one more understandable or allowable?


Analysis: Could teen accused in Martin County stabbing deaths rely on insanity defense?
6:35 a.m. EDT August 20, 2016

Bakkedahl said being acquitted by reason of insanity is a legal concept, not a medical diagnosis.

A defendant, he said, must have a mental infirmity or defect and as a result of the condition, either did not know or appreciate the consequences of their actions, or couldn't distinguish between right and wrong.

 

[Curious Me]

The weed didn't even show up in the initial drug testing. Still want to know what the tox results were on the other possible substances he might have taken.

I find it interesting that AH said things at the crime scene that make it sound like he knew what he had done and was aware of right from wrong.

Prosecutors seek alibi from face-eating suspect Austin Harrouff
http://www.local10.com/news/crime/prosecutors-seek-alibi-from-face-eating-suspect-austin-harrouff-

Paramedics reported that Harrouff claimed that he only smoked marijuana and "drank some alcohol" that night...

...Initial blood tests were negative for street drugs, including marijuana and cocaine.

 

[CARIIS]

The weed didn't even show up in the initial drug testing. Still want to know what the tox results were on the other possible substances he might have taken.

I find it interesting that AH said things at the crime scene that make it sound like he knew what he had done and was aware of right from wrong.

Prosecutors seek alibi from face-eating suspect Austin Harrouff
http://www.local10.com/news/crime/prosecutors-seek-alibi-from-face-eating-suspect-austin-harrouff-

It is difficult - do I want to know what else might have been ingested , yes. However at the end of the day, this was a mentally ill individual that was sucumbing to the ravages of mental illiness.

Can it might make it easier for us to understand if it was flakka, bathsalts, probably.

The reality here is tis is untreated mental illness, its the same as Holmes,Omar, Adam. the cascade mall shooter, and until the media will take on educationial role in this stuff, America will continue to look for "reasons" outside of uncaught and untreated mental illiness and it all shall continue.

All moo - if ones looks at other nations , that grasps mental illness, this stuff is not happening. There ar not lost of people getting to the point where they start looking for AK 47's casue of their untreated mental illness

IMO as the media endlessly reports "using" an insanity defense, this shall continue, the dialog needs to , IMO, be on we must increase our spending on treating untreated mental illness.

Sadly IMO, that is the real answer here moo

That IS the answer

mooo

So march on America,,,,,,,,,,,,, and get shot up

 

[Jax49]

"just kill me, I want to die", "kill me, kill me, shoot me, I deserve to die", etc.

He could have skipped killing two people and almost killing a third if all he wanted was to die...SMH.

 

[GutInstinct]

It is difficult - do I want to know what else might have been ingested , yes. However at the end of the day, this was a mentally ill individual that was sucumbing to the ravages of mental illiness.

Can it might make it easier for us to understand if it was flakka, bathsalts, probably.

The reality here is tis is untreated mental illness, its the same as Holmes,Omar, Adam. the cascade mall shooter, and until the media will take on educationial role in this stuff, America will continue to look for "reasons" outside of uncaught and untreated mental illiness and it all shall continue.

All moo - if ones looks at other nations , that grasps mental illness, this stuff is not happening. There ar not lost of people getting to the point where they start looking for AK 47's casue of their untreated mental illness

IMO as the media endlessly reports "using" an insanity defense, this shall continue, the dialog needs to , IMO, be on we must increase our spending on treating untreated mental illness.

Sadly IMO, that is the real answer here moo

That IS the answer

mooo

So march on America,,,,,,,,,,,,, and get shot up

Thank you, thank you, thank you CARIIS. My own opinion: unless one has suffered with a mental illness most of their lifetime or is a 'clinical' provider to same (therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker)', you simply cannot comprehend ... debilitating, serious, life-threatening mental illnesses.

OTT: Robin Williams RIP. Bruce Springsteen just came out about his lifelong depression and suicidal thoughts in his book and tv appearances. Yes, CARIIS, it is the real problem.

 

[GutInstinct]

Thank you, thank you, thank you CARIIS. My own opinion: unless one has suffered with a mental illness most of their lifetime or is a 'clinical' provider to same (therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker)', you simply cannot comprehend ... debilitating, serious, life-threatening mental illnesses.

OTT: Robin Williams RIP. Bruce Springsteen just came out about his lifelong depression and suicidal thoughts in his book and tv appearances. Yes, CARIIS, it is the real problem.

...and there is a world of difference between "mental illness' and 'insane'. One doesn't get off on an insanity plea just because of a mental illness. One has to be declared medically insane, and it's fairly obvious who is and who is not. Think Andrea who drowned her own six children.