FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #21

[katydid23]

I'm not even going to attempt to enumerate the amount of forensic evidence that may very well exist when somebody overpowers then kills someone and subsequently disposes of that victim's body, I never thought this would be debatable, I was wrong clearly. I am not going to go into it any deeper other then to say that the police wasn't looking for Micky Mouse when they searched vehicles and places connected to DS and that of this I am pretty confident.

As for the rest of your reply I think it is evidence of how poorly I must have made my original argument, so let me try again, this time simply and to the point.

If the question was phrased like this:

Is it reasonable that of all the places in the world DS could have harmed MP he would have chosen the time MP dropped off the kids at his condo?

Then the answer IMO is clearly NO.

If you then discount "premeditation" then it becomes all but impossible IMO that MP was abducted or killed at the condo. IMO

However if the same question above starts with "is it possible ..." and one is not constrained by having to produce any evidence, not even hearsay or second-hand accounts to support the theory, then the answer is clearly IMO YES.

From there you can extrapolate all kinds of theories including an Alien abduction, no pun intended.

I never said he KILLED her there. He only had to knock her out and tie her up, and put her in a large container.

 

[SleuthDecay]

If Michelle left the condo alive and on her own then Dale didn't do it. I just find it odd that we have no tapes of her leaving. I also find it odd that she disappeared on the day that PC aired unless she was planning on leaving even if it was a spur of the moment decision. Also, and I'm pretty sure this was never released, was Michelle's finger prints found on the steering wheel? Either one of two things, the wheel had her prints on it and that is proof she was driving last, the wheel was wiped down which means it was her Dale or someone else that did it. Also was the seat found in the position that Michelle usually drove it?

[BBM]

That info has never been released, AFAIK. What investigators did say is that they used a bloodhound in the parking lot where her Hummer was found, but the dog didn't hit on a viable scent trail. That knocks a pretty big dent in the theory that Michelle just abandoned her Hummer and walked away, or even that she went to the complex for an appointment or to visit someone she knew. JMO

 

[katydid23]

If he "snapped" at the condo it was not premeditated, and IMO one does not need any psychic insight into Dale's mind to reasonably eliminate premeditation given the reason already posted previously. Simply If one assumes premeditation then one believes that choosing to kill MP when she drops off the kids at his Condo is reasonable, and IMO it is not.

Well, I think it is a reasonable decision, to kill her when she drops off the kids. It was worked like a charm, so far.

When else is he going to get her in a private place, alone and under his control? It is perfect if you think about it. All he has to do is use his kids as an alibi, and just claim that she drove away, and was attacked somewhere else.

It is working great so far.

 

[telemag]

Hope this helps.

No camera at gate?

 

[telemag]

[BBM]

That info has never been released, AFAIK. What investigators did say is that they used a bloodhound in the parking lot where her Hummer was found, but the dog didn't hit on a viable scent trail. That knocks a pretty big dent in the theory that Michelle just abandoned her Hummer and walked away, or even that she went to the complex for an appointment or to visit someone she knew. JMO

So I take it that they used something of Michelle's for her scent? Too bad they didn't use something of Dale's, I would have.

 

[Thor]

I never said he KILLED her there. He only had to knock her out and tie her up, and put her in a large container.

Notwithstanding all kinds of inconsistencies preceding and following those acts, there still could be plenty of forensic evidence and probably so. People don't get knocked out as easily as in the moves, and to render somebody unconscious usually involves a struggle under the best of circumstances, it very well involve screams, scraps and bruises on both the victim as well as on the perpetrator to name two of the most obvious results. As far as the container is concerned, how many people have containers that they can fit a person in it? Not many I suppose. But yes, is it possible? Yes, is it reasonable IMO absolutely Not.

 

[SleuthDecay]

No camera at gate?

IIRC, WS member AlwaysWright posted way, way, way back in the threads that she talked to a neighbor when she visited Dale's subdivision to take pictures. I believe the neighbor told her that yes, there were cameras at the gates. So it's quite possible, but when I google mapped the condo complex and zoomed in on street view, I couldn't spot cameras at either of the gates. I spotted the entry keypads, but no cameras. So, if they do exist, they are hidden pretty well. Or heck, maybe they're in plain sight and I just missed them.

 

[Thor]

So I take it that they used something of Michelle's for her scent? Too bad they didn't use something of Dale's, I would have.

Do we know even by second-hand account or hearsay they did not use something of Dale's for scent as well? Just wondering.

 

[katydid23]

Notwithstanding all kinds of inconsistencies preceding and following those acts, there still could be plenty of forensic evidence and probably so. People don't get knocked out as easily as in the moves, and to render somebody unconscious usually involves a struggle under the best of circumstances, it very well involve screams, scraps and bruises on both the victim as well as on the perpetrator to name two of the most obvious results. As far as the container is concerned, how many people have containers that they can fit a person in it? Not many I suppose. But yes, is it possible? Yes, is it reasonable IMO absolutely Not.

Dale was a cabinet maker. Because of his profession, he had access to many large containers. As well as large empty cabinets and large barrels. My uncle was a cabinet maker. He had huge shipping containers at his work site.

And, imo, marines are taught various ways to knock people out of commission. I don't think Michelle, a petite 5 ft 1, was going to put up much of a fight, especially if she was blindsided. If he put something around her neck from behind and pulled it tight, there was very little she could do. And if they were in the garage, there would be no forensics to worry about. There would be no screaming if she strangled her from behind. And there would be no scrapes or bruises on him either. And it wouldn't matter if she was bruised.

In my opinion, Dale could have very easily rendered Michelle unconscious, with very little noise or muss or fuss. And he could have easily placed her in a large cabinet or box or barrel, and set her aside, until he could dispose of her.

 

[Thor]

Well, I think it is a reasonable decision, to kill her when she drops off the kids. It was worked like a charm, so far.

When else is he going to get her in a private place, alone and under his control? It is perfect if you think about it. All he has to do is use his kids as an alibi, and just claim that she drove away, and was attacked somewhere else.

It is working great so far.

If the scenario is that the murder/abduction either premeditated or not took place in Dale's condo then the prosecution better have at least some evidence of foul play to show for it since IMO anything short of that would never fly with 12 jurors in a box. And one can reasonably assume that it is more probable that they do not then otherwise, since 6 months into the investigation they have not charged DS with any crime. IMO

 

[telemag]

Dale was a cabinet maker. Because of his profession, he had access to many large containers. As well as large empty cabinets and large barrels. My uncle was a cabinet maker. He had huge shipping containers at his work site.

And, imo, marines are taught various ways to knock people out of commission. I don't think Michelle, a petite 5 ft 1, was going to put up much of a fight, especially if she was blindsided. If he put something around her neck from behind and pulled it tight, there was very little she could do. And if they were in the garage, there would be no forensics to worry about. There would be no screaming if she strangled her from behind. And there would be no scrapes or bruises on him either. And it wouldn't matter if she was bruised.

In my opinion, Dale could have very easily rendered Michelle unconscious, with very little noise or muss or fuss. And he could have easily placed her in a large cabinet or box or barrel, and set her aside, until he could dispose of her.

One of my good friends makes cabinets and I have never seen any large barrels at his work place. Of course he doesn't ship he installs them after he makes them. Was Dale known to ship domestically or did he just make them. Also did he have his own shop or did he work for someone. If he worked for someone then I doubt he had access to large containers and I would think that his boss would know if such large container was missing. I know when I bought cabinets for my kitchen they all came in reinforced boxes.

 

[katydid23]

If the scenario is that the murder/abduction either premeditated or not took place in Dale's condo then the prosecution better have at least some forensic evidence of foul play to show for it since IMO anything short of that would never fly with 12 jurors in a box. And one can reasonably assume that it is more probable that they do not then otherwise, since 6 months into the investigation they have not charged DS with any crime. IMO

I agree. He will probably get away with it. He planned his crime pretty well. At least you have given up trying to claim he is innocent. :smile:

 

[Thor]

I agree. He will probably get away with it. He planned his crime pretty well. At least you have given up trying to claim he is innocent. :smile:

I don't know how many times I have said "I don't know Dale is innocent or guilty" it is not my job to establish his guilt or innocence nor do I have a personal interest in doing so, guilt is for the prosecution to allege, for his lawyers to deny and for a jury of his peers to decide if and when it comes to that. I just don't think that based on what is known, even at the level of gossip and hearsay, much less of evidence, one can construct a reasonable scenario where Dale is guilty of killing MP, unless one enters that highly speculative plateau where just about everything is possible and one needs no evidence to back up one's own theories.

 

[cluciano63]

In the case of Jacque Waller, her husband is charged with her murder, though she has not been found. I can't recall all of the evidence but a big part of it seems to be the fact that they had just met with divorce lawyer the day she "vanished", which brings to my mind the fact that the show had just aired re: Michelle and DS when she "vanished." JMO

 

[sandina]

This is not intended to replace SmoothOperator's fabulous timeline, just to supplement it with some additional info and links, where available. Unless otherwise noted, all links were functional at the time of this posting. This covers 11/17 thru 11/18 when Michelle's Hummer was found, and is by no means all-inclusive. If anyone can help fill in the blanks, or has additions, corrections, etc., your input is welcome.


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Updated Timeline with source links
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Thursday, November 17, 2011



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11:08pm: Dale Smith Jr. makes a post on his Facebook page about Michelle's disappearance. He states that the police came by and searched his "whole house", but this search has never been confirmed by any other source.


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Quote:
"Oh man, oh man, (expletive)! Michelle, the mother of my kids is missing, her mother called me said she never showed up to work after dropping the kids off with me. The police just came by and searched my whole house, this isn't good. My kids need their mother." - Dale Smith, Jr.


SOURCE: Orlando Sentinel
Michelle Parker Missing: Who is suspect Dale Smith?
Dale Smith II is the only suspect in the disappearance of his ex-fiancee, Michelle Parker, police say.
December 2, 2011
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...gacon-facebook

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Wow. It's like I just read Dale's FB post for the first time. It occurred to me how self centered the post was. I tried to imagine a reasonable reaction and it would be more like:

HELP!!!! MISSING PERSON!!! Michelle Parker is missing (mother of my twins). PLEASE IF YOU SEE HER CONTACT POLICE ASAP OR CALL MY CELL (555-0000)


My point is, I would have no reason to include details of the twins being dropped off earlier at my house, the police searching my "whole" house, etc. I think I would only want to alert my Facebook friends in case they might help find her.

And, if one were to say, maybe he didn't feel it was as urgent as everyone else did, why would he include the declaration "This isn't good. My kids need their mother." Pretty presumptuous if you ask me. Almost as if he already knew she wasn't coming back.


MOO

 

[Skully]

Wow. It's like I just read Dale's FB post for the first time. It occurred to me how self centered the post was. I tried to imagine a reasonable reaction and it would be more like:

HELP!!!! MISSING PERSON!!! Michelle Parker is missing (mother of my twins). PLEASE IF YOU SEE HER CONTACT POLICE ASAP OR CALL MY CELL (555-0000)


My point is, I would have no reason to include details of the twins being dropped off earlier at my house, the police searching my "whole" house, etc. I think I would only want to alert my Facebook friends in case they might help find her.

And, if one were to say, maybe he didn't feel it was as urgent as everyone else did, why would he include the declaration "This isn't good. My kids need their mother." Pretty presumptuous if you ask me. Almost as if he already knew she wasn't coming back.


MOO

I hate to say this, but I asked my husband about this post on FB and he said, that if his ex went missing, he wouldn't care. He wouldn't look, or post a thing. So IDK, he does say the kids need their mom, and I don't see anything wrong with what he posted. And this is why he can't say anything, no matter what he says, it will be wrong in someone's eyes and interpruted to mean he killed Michelle.

 

[Skully]

No matter what Dale does it will be wrong.

If he searches, and finds her people will say he knew where she was and wanted her found, if he searches and they don't find her, they will say he searched knowing the areas being searched were not where he put her.

If he takes a LDT and passes, he was lucky.
If he fails and it was a true false positive, he is screwed but now he is guilty in the public eye. There are many cases of people failing and being innocent.

If he says anything about anything it is picked apart and and that is why his attorney and all attorneys tell you not to talk to anyone. But that is a sign of guilt for most people, but if you are paying a lawyer for advise, I say take it or your you are throwing your money away. JMO

I am sorry that Michelle is missing, but IMO, they need to look at some other people to find her.

 

[southern_comfort]

I hate to say this, but I asked my husband about this post on FB and he said, that if his ex went missing, he wouldn't care. He wouldn't look, or post a thing. So IDK, he does say the kids need their mom, and I don't see anything wrong with what he posted. And this is why he can't say anything, no matter what he says, it will be wrong in someone's eyes and interpruted to mean he killed Michelle.

You are exactly right that everything he does at this point is run through a dirty filter so it comes out stinking, no matter how clean it might have been prior.

As I began reading about this case not long ago, my eyebrows raised very quickly. One of the first things I read was SO's timeline, which is useful but contains a comment about the FB post which notes how he depersonalizes Michelle by refusing to use her name, which the comment takes as a sign of guilt. However, the very first word in the post is "Michelle"!!

Right away, I realized that with each piece of information I examined, I would first have to painstakingly apply my own filter to remove the dirt applied by others. The lack of evidence is being conclusively interpreted by some to mean that he was exceptionally crafty and thorough (which may be true and is certainly statistically likely).... but people are not even considering the alternative possibility that no evidence could mean he really didn't do it.

 

[stg]

I hate to say this, but I asked my husband about this post on FB and he said, that if his ex went missing, he wouldn't care. He wouldn't look, or post a thing. So IDK, he does say the kids need their mom, and I don't see anything wrong with what he posted. And this is why he can't say anything, no matter what he says, it will be wrong in someone's eyes and interpruted to mean he killed Michelle.

Don't feel bad; I agree with your husband. It has always driven me crazy when the talking heads on TV point to the fact that an estranged spouse or ex-spouse of a missing person isn't out looking or getting the word out on the missing as some sort of evidence of guilt. It's not.

 

[Thor]

You are exactly right that everything he does at this point is run through a dirty filter so it comes out stinking, no matter how clean it might have been prior.

As I began reading about this case not long ago, my eyebrows raised very quickly. One of the first things I read was SO's timeline, which is useful but contains a comment about the FB post which notes how he depersonalizes Michelle by refusing to use her name, which the comment takes as a sign of guilt. However, the very first word in the post is "Michelle"!!

Right away, I realized that with each piece of information I examined, I would first have to painstakingly apply my own filter to remove the dirt applied by others. The lack of evidence is being conclusively interpreted by some to mean that he was exceptionally crafty and thorough (which may be true and is certainly statistically likely).... but people are not even considering the alternative possibility that no evidence could mean he really didn't do it.

You are so fundamentally right, I always had a hard time justifying why, if the issue is understanding what happened to MP , one limits oneself to one theory only, no matter how convinced one might be of a single suspect's guilt. It is all but impossible to discuss anything but Dale's guilt to the exclusion of everything else. Dale's guilt has become an end onto itself and MP disappearance is essentially incidental to that central premise.