FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #22

[Jazzmaster]

Hi katydid23, I have never said I was pretty certain about anyone other then Dale being responsible for MP disappearance and I'm still thinking that Dale could very well be the perp and on this issue we have had many spirited debates, and as I've said, my opinions are one or many and everybody is obviously entitled to their own. However IMO that is a different situation then simply reducing the debate to a series of proclamations of guilt that could very well fit on several bumper stickers. IMO

Specifically, if I was to say that Dale is innocent and I know it certainly, that the police is wrong and/or malicious in naming him a suspect, that the evidence will show Dale not to be involved here, that I know Dale will be vindicated etc ... that would be all good and well but where is the debate there? Eventually somebody will proclaim the exact opposite of what I say and everybody will simply talk past one another, each bickering from the vantage point of their own positions and that sooner or later transforms the debate into a a series of unavoidable speeches on everybody's part. IMO

The problem here is the lack of evidence and facts and the natural frustration everybody feels in this sort of limbo this tragedy seems to be relegated to so far. For many MP is not just a stranger by now, but our mother, our sister, our daughter ... the embodiment of all the people we love and with that we might also feel here bits and pieces of that fear, that anger and that resentment that comes with not knowing where they are and what happened to them, and that is why all that is contained in these threads are humanly understandable but not resolvable at this time by unequivocal and absolute answers or by simply taking sides. Ultimately the more you think you know the lesser inclined you are to listen, to learn and to keep an open mind, to the extent that the opposite is also true I believe that latter is the wisest and most prudent path to follow. IMO

For me I have narrowed it down o two possibilities: either an alien abducted Michelle and has her on another planet or Dale was involved. I don't think aliens exist so I lean toward the latter. I haven't seen anything that can rule Dale out and sometimes it's what u can't eliminate that is the most logical choice. If Dale isn't guilty then someone sure did a good job framing him... I agree though that our beloved Michelle deserves justice and that LE will get Dale in due time. I think you know what I mean that Dale has some time to pay for his crimes. He made the biggest mistake with Buck Fuddy that we all know about...I bet that mistake is the tip of the iceberg.

 

[katydid23]

Aliens aside IMO insofar that the discussion here is always to be centered in never ending assertions of DS being guilty, I can't think of anything meaningful to add at the moment and that is clearly not because I didn't try. It serves no purpose IMO to practically drive me and people like me out of this discussion by giving us no other choice then to constantly bicker about DS being guilty. Perhaps at some point this will change ... or may be not.

I understand your frustration. I guess if you look at it another way perhaps. Many of us here have followed many cases here, and watched the guilty get away scotfree. Many of us are really frustrated. So don't take it personally.
:rose::star::angel:

 

[Thor]

I understand your frustration. I guess if you look at it another way perhaps. Many of us here have followed many cases here, and watched the guilty get away scotfree. Many of us are really frustrated. So don't take it personally.
:rose::star::angel:

Hi katydid23, I actually deleted that post (but you caught it before I did so ) because I realized that I would come across exactly the way you perceived it and perhaps understandably so. But believe me I'm not taken it personally and as I indicated before I do understand the frustration here, but it really has to come to a point when I need to admit to myself that I have nothing more meaningful to say on this issue and can't get caught up with bickering about DS with the usual handful of posters here. I'm almost tempted to start another speech about how pointless it is declaring DS guilty without evidence to that effect but of course that would be a case of "been there, done that" besides no sooner I say DS may not necessarily be guilty you can bet here comes another post saying something like "And I know Dale is guilty and justice will be done" besides that might very well be the case after all. In sum, since there is no debating certainty so why keep insisting? Anyway this cannot be about me and it is not, may be if and when there is actually something new in terms of evidence I can give this guilty stuff another try for whatever reason I would have to do so which is not entirely clear to me at the moment. Be well.

 

[katydid23]

Hi katydid23, I actually deleted that post but you caught it before I did so . because I realized that I would come across exactly the way you perceived it and perhaps understandably so. But believe me I'm not taken it personally and as I indicated before I do understand the frustration here, but it really has to come to a point when I need to admit to myself that I have nothing more meaningful to say on this issue and can't get caught up with bickering about DS with the usual handful of posters here. I'm almost tempted to start another speech about how pointless it is declaring DS guilty without evidence to that effect but of course that would be a case of "been there, done that" besides no sooner I say DS may not necessarily be guilty you can bet here comes another post saying something like "And I know Dale is guilty and justice will be done" besides that might very well be the case after all. In sum, since there is no debating certainty why do I keep insisting? Anyway this cannot be about me and it is not, may be if and when there is actually something new in terms of evidence I can give this guilty stuff another try for whatever reason I would have to do so which is not entirely clear to me at the moment. JMO

There are a lot of cases on this forum that are true mysteries, without any prime suspects. Maybe you might want to look at some where we are really debating who the perp might be.

Go to the MISSING FORUM and look at the Elizabeth and Lyric thread. It is quite fascinating and nobody knows who took the girls. Your mental skills would be much appreciated there. Here is the link:

IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Jazzmaster]

Hi katydid23, I actually deleted that post (but you caught it before I did so ) because I realized that I would come across exactly the way you perceived it and perhaps understandably so. But believe me I'm not taken it personally and as I indicated before I do understand the frustration here, but it really has to come to a point when I need to admit to myself that I have nothing more meaningful to say on this issue and can't get caught up with bickering about DS with the usual handful of posters here. I'm almost tempted to start another speech about how pointless it is declaring DS guilty without evidence to that effect but of course that would be a case of "been there, done that" besides no sooner I say DS may not necessarily be guilty you can bet here comes another post saying something like "And I know Dale is guilty and justice will be done" besides that might very well be the case after all. In sum, since there is no debating certainty so why keep insisting? Anyway this cannot be about me and it is not, may be if and when there is actually something new in terms of evidence I can give this guilty stuff another try for whatever reason I would have to do so which is not entirely clear to me at the moment. Be well.

No one has presented any alternative theories of who did it that hold water or presented a reasonable explanation as to why ALL the circumstantial evidence points directly back to Dale. Until we have another theory, more evidence, or another suspect we need to continue sleuthing Dale and his activities to find Michelle. Where is she Dale?

 

[Jazzmaster]

"Dale will be in the spotlight and thought of as a MURDERER ..."

I for one don't think of Dale as a murderer but rather as suspect in a murder investigation as I would guess many others here and elsewhere although I don't presume to speak on behalf of anyone else but myself in this instance.

"They must face society each and every day...."

Not necessarily. There are lots of people who could not care less about what society thinks IMO. Some of us only need the strength of knowing who we really are and can live perfectly well without the validation of others or the lack thereof. IMO

I for one think of Dale as a murderer who acted with premeditation. He was deliberate, calculating, and careful with how he destroyed evidence. He lied to Michelle's family and LE about her arrival and departure time, established a phony alibi, had plenty of time to carry out his crime and dispose of evidence. He hired a high profile defense attorney, stonewalled in his cooperation with LE, and has since refused to explain simple things like his whereabouts. You add it all up and most reasonable and unbiased individuals view Dale as a murderer. That's why he was fired and is on welfare. He deserves to be put to death for killing Michelle and leaving the twinners motherless. All jmo

 

[Thor]

There are a lot of cases on this forum that are true mysteries, without any prime suspects. Maybe you might want to look at some where we are really debating who the perp might be.

Go to the MISSING FORUM and look at the Elizabeth and Lyric thread. It is quite fascinating and nobody knows who took the girls. Your mental skills would be much appreciated there. Here is the link:

IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Hi katydid23, thanks for your vote of confidence you are a very kind person, however participating in this kind of threads requires a level of commitment I cannot undertake at this time, besides I'm really not inclined to go in the middle of yet another human tragedy. I'll check this thread periodically if for no other reason then to hope to read that MP has been found ... and I may still post if anything new is uncovered or some new theory is discussed, at least that is the plan

Lastly, I'm sure the thread you suggested will do just fine without me and perhaps at some point I'll change my mind about posting there, I'm known to do that from time to time (change my mind) . Thank you again for your kind words and be well.

 

[Cblewife]

I wonder if they have considered exhuming Shannon's body like they did Drew Peterson's former wife? Kathleen's death had been ruled an accidental drowning and was only looked back into it after Stacey vanished. I would like to know what the trigger was that made them decide to take another look and how/why they changed the original cause of death. I really can't shake the fact that Dale has "lost" two women in his life in such a tragic manner.

 

[What'sThatClue]

I wonder if they have considered exhuming Shannon's body like they did Drew Peterson's former wife? Kathleen's death had been ruled an accidental drowning and was only looked back into it after Stacey vanished. I would like to know what the trigger was that made them decide to take another look and how/why they changed the original cause of death. I really can't shake the fact that Dale has "lost" two women in his life in such a tragic manner.

Would be nice, but unfortunately her body was apparently donated to science and later cremated.

http://www.examiner.com/article/sus...-judge-s-decision-to-return-twins-to-ex-fianc

 

[Cblewife]

Would be nice, but unfortunately her body was apparently donated to science and later cremated.

http://www.examiner.com/article/sus...-judge-s-decision-to-return-twins-to-ex-fianc

I sure didn't remember ever reading that. Thanks! Too bad though ....

 

[captdj]

Been away working...
Has Michelle's mom been able to see the twins on some kind of schedule?
I feel LE has evidence...the hummer had to hold some type of evidence....just not sure its all add up to be enough

Just hoping sooner than later some last piece of evidence will be found or discovered that will tie what other evidence LE does have into a nice package...that the DA can work with.

 

[SleuthDecay]

Sadly, I believe LE have all the evidence they need except Michelle's remains. IMO, Dale will be arrested and charged as soon as her remains are found. JMO.

 

[GrammaMaybe]

I would like to know what the trigger was that made them decide to take another look and how/why they changed the original cause of death. I really can't shake the fact that Dale has "lost" two women in his life in such a tragic manner.

Cut, colored and pouffed by me. What follows is MOO.

Can't easily access the link, but Shannon had Ecstacy in her system and trauma to the top of her head. Since she had a history of drug abuse, they could not absolutely ascribe her death to overdose; since the man she was with (a buddy of Baby Dale's [interesting, especially since they were still buddies after her death]) refused to even speak to the police and others collaborated that it sounded like enthusiastic sex occurred and her head was banging against the headboard/wall, there was not enough to make a case against her date for intentionally harming her. The best way to get away with murder is to contend, yes you did it and it was an accident, as in: Your honor, it was dark, my husband was supposed to be out of state and I was terrified that the intruder was going to attack me in the dark, so of course I shot him.

 

[GrammaMaybe]

Would be nice, but unfortunately her body was apparently donated to science and later cremated.

http://www.examiner.com/article/sus...-judge-s-decision-to-return-twins-to-ex-fianc

In my state, the husband has the power to decide what to do with the remains of his beloved wife. Surely Baby Dale's motives were pure (or Papa & Mama Dale told him what to do!)

 

[GrammaMaybe]

MOO

We know that LE has the following information:

Materials removed from the Carter Glen condo which had to be named in the search warrant such as:
Blood and/or tissue that indicates injury
Anything that could have been used to restrain Michelle
Any property that could have belonged to Michelle
Any written or verbal evidence of Baby, Papa or Mama Dales' intentions towards Michelle
Any written or verbal evidence of feelings towards Michelle
Anything that could indicate violence
Any fibers that could have come from Michelle's clothing
Any particles from the GLOW sticker
etc.

We don't know exactly what was removed, but we do know that material evidence was taken.
We also know that Dale turned over his phone and computer to LE.

Materials were also removed from Rose Blvd address. Same as above?

Video tape from the neighbors surveillance camera, and the condo's entrance/exit camera.

Where Michelle's phone was whenever it was on between 3:18 and 8:08.
LE knows when Michelle's phone was turned off and where it was at the time.
(If this occurred at Baby Dale's, why would she turn if off there?)
LE knows that it was on "about 4:30 moving west on Hoffner"
(IMO Michelle did not have control of her phone at that time, otherwise she would have called A.)
LE knows that it stopped pinging at 8:08

Michelle did not walk away from the Hummer when it was left near Walden Palms.

 

[Thor]

MOO

We know that LE has the following information:

Materials removed from the Carter Glen condo which had to be named in the search warrant such as:
Blood and/or tissue that indicates injury
Anything that could have been used to restrain Michelle
Any property that could have belonged to Michelle
Any written or verbal evidence of Baby, Papa or Mama Dales' intentions towards Michelle
Any written or verbal evidence of feelings towards Michelle
Anything that could indicate violence
Any fibers that could have come from Michelle's clothing
Any particles from the GLOW sticker
etc.

We don't know exactly what was removed, but we do know that material evidence was taken.
We also know that Dale turned over his phone and computer to LE.

Materials were also removed from Rose Blvd address. Same as above?

Video tape from the neighbors surveillance camera, and the condo's entrance/exit camera.

Where Michelle's phone was whenever it was on between 3:18 and 8:08.
LE knows when Michelle's phone was turned off and where it was at the time.
(If this occurred at Baby Dale's, why would she turn if off there?)
LE knows that it was on "about 4:30 moving west on Hoffner"
(IMO Michelle did not have control of her phone at that time, otherwise she would have called A.)
LE knows that it stopped pinging at 8:08

Michelle did not walk away from the Hummer when it was left near Walden Palms.

"We know that LE has the following information: ..."

Apparently I am not aware of quite a bit of what we are supposed to know, and it is entirely possible that I missed pretty significant information here. So anybody, please help me if you will in trying to make some sense of this at least from my own prospective.

The following is what I know and more to the point, what I don't seem to know assuming the original post is accurate:

"Police conducted a search of Smith's condominium on Nov. 18. A similar search was conducted at his parents' house over the weekend. Nothing of interest was reportedly found at either location" -Huffington Post

All media reports I could find on the searches of the DS's condo and Sr's are consistent with the quote in the article published in the Huffington Post which I linked here and I don't know of any further development on this issue.

Also I cannot find the connection between what is contained in the specific list of material that might have been included in the search warrant and what was apparently not found (or not known to have been found) in the searches in terms of providing LE with any specifiable information in the case and a DS involvement in it.

"... but we do know that material evidence was taken ..."

I searched for any media accounts about boxes, containers or such similar objects that might have being seen taken out from Dale's condo or Sr's, or any statements referring to any material being taken out at the time of the searches and could not found any. I searched for any statement by LE relating to those searches that were characterized as "material evidence" and could not find any.

"We also know that Dale turned over his phone and computer to LE"

I searched for any media accounts about Dale having turned over his phone and computer to LE and could not find any. I searched for any media accounts about Dale's phone and computer being seized by LE and I could not find any.

Because people are entitled to their opinions but not to their own facts, at least in the words of the great Daniel Patrick Moynihan, if anything I have included here is not consistent with what is publicly known (which might be entirely possible) please correct me on the record.

 

[Pias]

"We know that LE has the following information: ..."

Apparently I am not aware of quite a bit of what we are supposed to know, and it is entirely possible that I missed pretty significant information here. So anybody, please help me if you will in trying to make some sense of this at least from my own prospective.

The following is what I know and more to the point, what I don't seem to know assuming the original post is accurate:

"Police conducted a search of Smith's condominium on Nov. 18. A similar search was conducted at his parents' house over the weekend. Nothing of interest was reportedly found at either location" -Huffington Post



All media reports I could find on the searches of the DS's condo and Sr's are consistent with the quote in the article published in the Huffington Post which I linked here and I don't know of any further development on this issue.

Also I cannot find the connection between what is contained in the specific list of material that might have been included in the search warrant and what was apparently not found (or not known to have been found) in the searches in terms of providing LE with any specifiable information in the case and a DS involvement in it.

"... but we do know that material evidence was taken ..."

I searched for any media accounts about boxes, containers or such similar objects that might have being seen taken out from Dale's condo or Sr's, or any statements referring to any material being taken out at the time of the searches and could not found any. I searched for any statement by LE relating to those searches that were characterized as "material evidence" and could not find any.


"We also know that Dale turned over his phone and computer to LE"



I searched for any media accounts about Dale having turned over his phone and computer to LE and could not find any. I searched for any media accounts about Dale's phone and computer being seized by LE and I could not find any.

Because people are entitled to their opinions but not to their own facts, at least in the words of the great Daniel Patrick Moynihan, if anything I have included here is not consistent with what is publicly known (which might be entirely possible) please correct me on the record.

Try searching again.

If computer(s) and phone(s) were seized during the search, then one can safely say, at the time of that report, LE did not know WHAT they had, so it is safe to say that nothing was REPORTED.


We see LE removing items in the videos, snapshots, and read of computers and other items being removed, if the visual isn't enough. http://youtu.be/1g310Djl5rI This will give you what you want to hear.

Dale admits LE has taken his phone and suggests his friends will need to get in touch with him using alternate method(s) until he gets it back per fb.

While there is no specific mention of PC's being removed in this news report, we are able to see that items are being carried by LE on Dale's property and it is referenced that items were removed or taken. http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/search-for-missing-mother-of-3/vFJnD/

More importantly, and less discussed, is the information one can find within this story. Happy sleuthing!

 

[Kamille]

Cut, colored and pouffed by me. What follows is MOO.

Can't easily access the link, but Shannon had Ecstacy in her system and trauma to the top of her head. Since she had a history of drug abuse, they could not absolutely ascribe her death to overdose; since the man she was with (a buddy of Baby Dale's [interesting, especially since they were still buddies after her death]) refused to even speak to the police and others collaborated that it sounded like enthusiastic sex occurred and her head was banging against the headboard/wall, there was not enough to make a case against her date for intentionally harming her. The best way to get away with murder is to contend, yes you did it and it was an accident, as in: Your honor, it was dark, my husband was supposed to be out of state and I was terrified that the intruder was going to attack me in the dark, so of course I shot him.

Well I don't recall reading that Shannon had a history of drug abuse, in fact I believe her family indicated that she did not. She was asleep in bed when DSJr came home from his night of partying without her and ending up beating on her. And I believe she was planning on leaving him and going back home to her parents that week. To the best of my knowledge she did not have a criminal history either. How she ended up moving to Orlando and living with DSSr is a testiment to just how manipulative DSJr can be in his relationships IMO.

And as I recall the "headboard" theory of the injury to the top of her head was provided by none other than DSJr himself while entertaining a new lady friend in a bar who was kind enough to relay that unfortunate encounter here on this board. The official report indicated that she had fallen in a bathroom did it not? Kind of hard to fall right on the top of your head from a short distance but since the ME decided it was an accident and the body was cremated, there's not much they can go back and check now is there?

MOO

 

[Pias]

While it would be pure speculation on my part, I wouldn't put it past those involved in Shannon's death, to have overdosed her themselves (slipping her a mickey) and that the ultimate outcome was intended, regardless of actual cause being one, the other, or both. To have injuries to the top of the head from falling in a shower is tough to believe. It is also tough to imagine one's head being bashed into a headboard during sex, unless she was already unconscious. Then, wouldn't it be rape due to lack of consent? What woman is gonna lay there and just let you bash her head in? I have had a head injury, and it is still tender some 2 years later... She had just suffered recent trauma to the head. I rather doubt she would have been too high to feel it if she were conscious, and if the event ever actually happened as reported on the record, or stated off of it. If, indeed, she was f'd to unconsciousness, meaning, she was conscious to begin with, that could indicate that she either went unconscious on the first bang to the head, or was restrained from making any effort to stop it from repeating. JMO

 

[Pias]

Within the story between Dale Jr and his 'still friend' (the friend f's his wife, and they stay buddies? And she dies? And they stay friends? Really now?... How often does THAT happen?) What we see is one person reporting they realized she was unconscious and unresponsive upon waking. The other indicates the person went to sleep knowing she was unconscious and unresponsive. Interesting that no matter how you slice it, you can't prove a crime, unless it can be found within those autopsy photos, notes, police reports, and recollection of events, including by those willing to step forward in the name of what is right and to tell the untold truths, if they be. It is quite plain to see, IMO, that a crime took place, if the only crime was that no charges of any kind were filed against anyone involved, regardless of when or where along the line, the crime was committed. JMO

I'll go out on a limb here and recon to guess, Dale either did not love Shannon at the time of her death, or he loved his friend more. MOO