FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #24

[Spice]

And why is it that the police have withheld that piece of information for two years or so? Anyone has a theory on that? And how withholding that information has helped in finding Michelle or charge anyone in her disappearance? I know the police said they were "protecting the integrity of the investigation" does anyone here have a theory of what that means in relation to this piece of evidence?JMO

Respectfully snipped by me.

There is no theory needed as to why the police waited to release the video. The police specifically stated that they withheld the video to weed out/minimize false tips. Withholding information and "protecting the integrity of the investigation" are both common and strategic practice.

Also, they released the information on the two year anniversary of her disappearance to drum up interest that may have waned and to obviously put pressure on those that may have or are actively withholding information pertinent to the case. That is what may "help" find Michelle.

The direct plea from Michelle's mother to Dale's mother was purposeful and by design, an effort to appeal to the emotions. All of the above are basic and well known practices in Homicide investigations and most do not get solved quickly and neatly as shown on television. This is all normal and not indicative of "mistakes" on the behalf of law enforcement. Quite the opposite. Lastly, its not about the "usual suspects" it is about the one and only suspect as stated by Homicide investigators and that is Dale.

They have not will not arrest him until they feel they have enough evidence to hand to the prosecutor as they only get ONE bite of that apple. Don't confuse their deliberate pace for incompetence and rush to judgement. If that were so, they would have already arrested him. Knowing that he did it and being able to prove that are to different things and I have no doubt that they will be able to do just that in the future.

 

[flourish]

I have been so passionate about this case since day one and I think I posted way way back in the beginning but I feel like for the longest time this thread has been hijacked. I think that it is important to discuss the case in regards to who law enforcement has named the prime suspect and that is DSjr Sure there are so many cases were there is no named prime suspect and yes of course by all means put all ideas out there in the universe to create an energy in the discussion. Even in this case I am not saying not to discuss ideas, or the timeline or anything like that it is so necessary but to staunchly continue to put so much energy by some posters into the fact that it must must must be someone other than DSjr at every turn. I am puzzled by that. LE again has reaffirmed after all this time they still have the same prime suspect so IMO that is already figured out.

<modsnip>

I've been here since thread one...I'm more of a lurker and thanks button pusher than poster.

While Dale seems to be the prime suspect for good reason, I'll admit that when this first broke, I thought to myself, "If someone wanted to frame that guy, this would have been the day and the way to do it." It's been well-noted and oft-repeated what a horrid awful subhuman Dale is, what with all that clearly insane Star Wars and sci-fi interest he shares with thousands of other people, not to mention he might possibly be interested in women AND (gasp!) men!

All that aside, though, yeah there's some events in Dale 's past that I find highly disturbing...like what EXACTLY happened that resulted in the death of his ex? Was the tragic death of the life guard an event that left Dale with much of an impression as a learning experience or wake-up call? Well, it didn't seem to be, because he committed violent acts after that.

So it could be fair to assume that Dale is not a particularly likeable person based on some of his past criminal actions. Seems it would also be fair to say it's likely Dale has his share of enemies and/or people who have been hurt by his actions. People who might like to see him go down for something he didn't do because of a real or perceived injustice. Tit for tat.

I just keep coming back to why of all days would he do it the day the PC episode aired? If he lost his temper watching the episode and the IMO, rude treatment from the judge*, then how did he leave no forensic evidence of an attack at his condo? Why no evidence of a deceased human in the hummer? Or his garage? They did check out his garage, yes?

If someone else transported her body from the condo who, when, how, etc. I know there are a lot of good theories on that, but I'm not completely clear or convinced about that part.

*FWIW, I used to LOVE Judge Milian. After watching the episode with Dale and Michelle, I just couldn't watch it any more. I didn't like the way she treated either of them. Maybe I was viewing it through the eyes of knowing Michelle wouldn't be seen after the airing, but she just seemed so mean to both of them. IMO

 

[Thor]

Thor,
Honestly I have tried to look at Michelle's disappearance from every angle from day 1 and it keeps leading me back to Dale. I would appreciate hearing the other possibilities on what happened that day from your perspective. I think it would be worth your time and effort.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Anyone might have potentially abducted Michelle Parker, if I had investigative powers and could interview witnesses I probably would have a better answer for you. It's entirely possible that DS is responsible of course, but possible and likely mean very little to me in this context and after two years of the same thing repeated over and over again. Ultimately it's the end product the counts where I'm concerned, to repeat again, to me the issue is one of evidence, to find them, to explain them and to convince the the only people that matter here, namely a jury.

Luckily, one does not have to have an opinion on this person guilt or the other, although the pressure is always on to do just that and as much as I tried I still don't understand fully why, at least from an utilitarian point of view as I said, either DS did it or someone else, the end result is the same, do we have the evidence to find Michelle? Do we have the evidence to prosecute anyone? The answer here is no, not at this time, so shouldn't the issue of the out most importance be just that? Or is it what everyone thinks of DS?

 

[flourish]

What more proof do we need of LE's position on this case than the fact that YS called out DSJr's mother Tammy and pled for her to do the right thing as a mother and as the grandmother to the same children as YS and help give them closure by picking up the phone and telling them where Michelle is. She did this at a press conference that LE set up. From a written statement that they knew she was going to read.

MOO

Well, yeah...we know their position. I suppose that's indication that they haven't changed their position. Do we know for a fact that LE specifically asked what words be spoken?

 

[Thor]

Respectfully snipped by me.

There is no theory needed as to why the police waited to release the video. The police specifically stated that they withheld the video to weed out/minimize false tips. Withholding information and "protecting the integrity of the investigation" are both common and strategic practice.

Also, they released the information on the two year anniversary of her disappearance to drum up interest that may have waned and to obviously put pressure on those that may have or are actively withholding information pertinent to the case. That is what may "help" find Michelle.

The direct plea from Michelle's mother to Dale's mother was purposeful and by design, an effort to appeal to the emotions. All of the above are basic and well known practices in Homicide investigations and most do not get solved quickly and neatly as shown on television. This is all normal and not indicative of "mistakes" on the behalf of law enforcement. Quite the opposite. Lastly, its not about the "usual suspects" it is about the one and only suspect as stated by Homicide investigators and that is Dale.

They have not will not arrest him until they feel they have enough evidence to hand to the prosecutor as they only get ONE bite of that apple. Don't confuse their deliberate pace for incompetence and rush to judgement. If that were so, they would have already arrested him. Knowing that he did it and being able to prove that are to different things and I have no doubt that they will be able to do just that in the future.

I respect your confidence in the police, but I don't share it and that is not because I have particular evidence of incompetency, I don't, and after all their investigation and its methods is not a matter of public record, however there's no such a thing as an organization that doesn't have its share of shortcomings and that obliviously includes the police.

Now what i don't understand fully is this staunch defense of the investigators here, it's not like they've achieved any of the intended goals as of this time and it's not like entertaining even the slightest level of criticism makes DS any more or any less of a suspect, it's not even that to question their effectiveness is an indication of not liking the police, there are many commendable things to be said about people that do a public job for relatively little money, but surely at the very list there's got to be some room from improvements, there always is, especially here where they have failed so far to find Michelle and to secure at least an indictment. That is why I believe that some pressure needs to be applied, not only on the the police, but City Hall, the media, and everyone and anything that can be susceptible to such a pressure. The press event is a good start but more must be done IMO and pressure does not come from a pat on the shoulder and a statement of confidence, not in my opinion at least, not when Michelle is still missing for two years and counting.

Now one can argue the wisdom of the decision not to release the video but I've done it before and I'd repeat myself and I don't think it's necessary to do just that, however I'd hope the something happens to change the trajectory of this case in some consequential way, and that must involve just about every actor in this tragedy not just the police, as I said before and will repeat again there has to be a global change of strategy which means doing something, anything, that hasn't been tried before or will remain the case that everyone knows almost everything and no one to prove any of it where matters.

JMO

 

[Janeumayer]

Bringing over the screen caps of Michelle's Hummer arriving at Dale's Complex at 15:10 pm and leaving without the Decals and hubcaps at 17:17 pm.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7415402&postcount=4

 

[Skully]

In the video it looks dark outside. Does anyone know what time the sun set on November 17, 2011.

Snipped by me. Not sure if this was answered yet, from SmoothOperators timeline:

"5:31pm This is the official time that the sun set in Orlando, it's suburbs and surrounding areas"

Thank you. So lets say he goes to his parents home and the report of him being there at 4:30 is correct, that means someone else took off with the cell in there car or the hummer to get that 4:26 ping and text message. We need a map with only the few confirmed things we know and a time on them. I don't know how to do that, but that would help us look at where he started and what would be the most likely moves that took place and routes. Maybe it would give a hint to where she is. I have looked at the map on GE and there are very few places around the area that a body could be placed and not be discovered in short time. But if you had a idea of what transpired that evening you may just hit on it.

 

[southern_comfort]

Bringing over the screen caps of Michelle's Hummer arriving at Dale's Complex at 15:10 pm and leaving without the Decals and hubcaps at 17:17 pm.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7415402&postcount=4

I guess I had better revisit the facts. I thought there was no visual evidence of her leaving? Also, what is the story with the hubcaps? In the 8:55 PM video just released, it looks like hubcaps are present. TIA!

 

[southern_comfort]

DSJr was apparently home watching the People's Court episode. We had a poster who is a friend of his who verified that for us early on. So even though DSJr was at home, you still believe that Michelle, who had another child at home who would be waiting for her, might have pulled up outside the condo and proceeded to have a nap for 3/4 of an hour in the vehicle with the children?

If she were supposed to be somewhere at 4 and got there early, the older child were reasonably accustomed to fending for himself (and I think plenty of 11-year-olds do), and it was likely the only opportunity she'd have to get some sleep before her shift - then yes, I think she might. The twins had also just left daycare and if they weren't asleep, I'd be surprised. I've done similar plenty of times with a young child snoozing in the backseat. I have an older child and a preschooler, I frequently work into the wee hours and I often take sleep when and where I can get it, which is sometimes an older kid's school parking lot. I don't think I'd do it on a well-traveled street, but in a controlled environment, absolutely. I had no idea the concept was so outrageous.

Look, I don't know if Michelle took a nap. What I do know is that, if there is actually a discrepancy between the time DS claims Michelle arrived and when she actually arrived (and I hesitate to consider that as a fact in the first place), then there are explanations other than "Dale lied" that are both reasonable and plausible. Maybe he lied... but if one doesn't begin with a foregone conclusion, then IMO it's just as easy to conclude that he didn't.

Unfortunately, that is the case with most of the known evidence. I understand the most simple and popular explanation for Michelle's disappearance, and I don't necessarily disagree with it, but given the passage of two years and what I consider to be the very limited and highly refutable nature of the known evidence, it seems prudent to set aside the foregone conclusion and at least consider other possibilities. As just one example, if we accept as fact that there is indeed a 42-minute window of time that remains unaccounted, and further that someone else sent a decoy "Waterford" text within a half hour of Michelle leaving the condo, then IMO that 42-minute anomaly could be significant for reasons unrelated to Dale. If we can set Dale aside for a moment for the sake of theorizing, then (a) what could Michelle have been doing in those 42 minutes and, perhaps more importantly, (b) who could have encountered her while she was outside the condo and perhaps followed her from there? These are questions that I hope were asked and answered by investigators. I am afraid they may not have been, due to that same foregone conclusion that's brought this case to the unfortunate place it is today.

Dale's condo was located in a gated community, right? That would reduce traffic significantly, thereby limiting the number of people who might have the opportunity to observe the Hummer parked for a short while. Even if Michelle took a full 45 minute rest and we go with Dale's account that she only stayed for a short time after 4 PM, she was still in and out of the neighborhood in about an hour. That may not be not long enough to arouse much curiosity on the part of residents that would cause them to recall it later (especially during the day while many people are at work), but it's certainly long enough for a person with bad intentions to pass by and take notice. Is gate access keycard-operated? I wonder whether a list of the limited pool of people who could have had contact with or observed Michelle during that time (at least via normal vehicular gate access) was compiled and thoroughly investigated, or whether the sights were set in a particular direction from day one.

 

[beach]

Too many posters trying to play "Mod" in here. I'm taking over now.

Thanks.

 

[Spice]

I respect your confidence in the police, but I don't share it and that is not because I have particular evidence of incompetency, I don't, and after all their investigation and its methods is not a matter of public record, however there's no such a thing as an organization that doesn't have its share of shortcomings and that obliviously includes the police.

BBM

FYI--Who said I have a blind confidence in the police? Much the contrary actually, I simply stated that what you trying to point to as "mistakes" are basic practices in homicide investigations. Common knowledge.

Now what i don't understand fully is this staunch defense of the investigators here, it's not like they've achieved any of the intended goals as of this time and it's not like entertaining even the slightest level of criticism makes DS any more or any less of a suspect, it's not even that to question their effectiveness is an indication of not liking the police, there are many commendable things to be said about people that do a public job for relatively little money, but surely at the very list there's got to be some room from improvements, there always is, especially here where they have failed so far to find Michelle and to secure at least an indictment.

Again, I'm not staunchly defending the investigators but I am not wildly jumping to conclusions about their assumed or alleged incompetence when they are using strategies used over and over again in investigations. Strategies that are not random and are most likely used in evidence based practice (and yes they do use evidence based strategies that have been proven to work effectively) Like, I said in response to your other post, you seem to be grabbing onto the fact that they didn't release a piece of evidence 2 years ago and are jumping to a conclusion and making an assertion that it points to incompetence. There is nothing to support that.

That is why I believe that some pressure needs to be applied, not only on the the police, but City Hall, the media, and everyone and anything that can be susceptible to such a pressure. The press event is a good start but more must be done IMO and pressure does not come from a pat on the shoulder and a statement of confidence, not in my opinion at least, not when Michelle is still missing for two years and counting.

Everything they just did was an attempt at applying pressure. The press conference, the release of the video, most likely the direct plea to his mother. All pressure. Also, how do we know that they are not applying pressure that we do not know about? We only know about what they choose to publicize. Also, there is not much they can do to him until they find more evidence. He is free to do as he pleases for now and so is his family. I would love to see more pressure put on him, I"m just not assuming that that is not happening behind the scenes.

Now one can argue the wisdom of the decision not to release the video but I've done it before and I'd repeat myself and I don't think it's necessary to do just that, however I'd hope the something happens to change the trajectory of this case in some consequential way, and that must involve just about every actor in this tragedy not just the police, as I said before and will repeat again there has to be a global change of strategy which means doing something, anything, that hasn't been tried before or will remain the case that everyone knows almost everything and no one to prove any of it where matters.



JMO

They will prove it when they find more evidence. And I agree with you. I hope something happens to change the trajectory of the case and bring consequences to her killer.

 

[Pias]

No facts here, so to speak, but then again, there are. While a possibility may exist Michelle slept while in or out of the condo the day of her disappearance, it remains equally possible it could have been voluntary or involuntary. It could have been a temporary sleep or a more permanent one. Whether she actually slept to any degree or by any cause remains unknown and I am only furthering the possibilities brought on by that which has been proposed as possible.

 

[Sparky]

I'm looking for a time or appox. time that Yvonne received a call back from DSjr. I saw in Smooth's timeline, there was no time. Would anyone remember? TIA

 

[Sparky]

In this video...The reporter says DSjr was not aware of the Hummer video recently released.

http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/video-released-in-michelle-parker-case-shows/vCJZc7/

 

[Pias]

I'm looking for a time or appox. time that Yvonne received a call back from DSjr. I saw in Smooth's timeline, there was no time. Would anyone remember? TIA

Here is the best I find on that in my extensive media library:

HLN Special Report
(my video link no longer works for this report but it was dated November 30, 2011)
VIDEO NOTES
20:56
Dale got custody of the twins back.

Lauren says "they have a prime suspect, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was him."

"Number one is finding Michelle. Number two is making sure we keep a relationship with those kids, "Lauren says.

Lauren says she left the courtroom because she felt overwhelmed by people talking about whether they may or may not ever see her again. "It's really hard to hear," she says.

An arrest would change that equation. It would take time to get bail money together, and in the meantime, custody of the twins would most likely go to a relative.

Lauren said she rode with DCF and hung out with them for a little bit, then they took the kids out for a happy meal at McDonald's They played with blocks, and they were excited to see their brother, Austin, and the puppy, Diesel, who was at home. She said it was probably the most she's cried, just getting to see them because they bring such joy into their family's life and they have lived with the family, off and on, for the past 3 years, and nearly full-time for the past year and a half, saying "so our home is their home."

MN: "I think sometimes people forget we live in America and it's interesting how people, um, seem to forget there's a presumption of innocence."

"We have no witnesses. We have no DNA. We have no, um, suggestion of anything, except somebody with a history that people don't like, and other than that, there's zero evidence, and for that," (a reporter attempts to interrupt) "and for that, and for that, and for that you have somebody jumping to a conclusion that he murdered a child. Now, if everybody who was under suspicion would lose their children, I, I think we just need to go ahead and have a bonfire with the constitution." (note by me: MN most likely did not mean 'murdered a "child").

"What happened to our, what happened to our presumption of innocence? You got no evidence. If there were evidence, he'd be arrested at least. It only takes that much to arrest somebody. We're not talking about indictments, we're not talking about going to trial and proving somebody guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There's not enough evidence to arrest him, and for that, you wanna take away a persons children? Because some people on blogs are on a feeding frenzy? Not, not in my country."

Criminal Investigator, John Lucich suggests they will probably check Dale Jr's phone records and see if they intersect. There's "a lot of investigation to go on yet before we start jumping to conclusions."

Lauren says LE has done their best to keep them in the loop but they have to protect the investigation and they respect that.

MN: "It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario, when it comes to the polygraph. Why? If, in fact, somebody were to fail it, then they are going to be stigmatized. If they pass it, the investigation continues. Why is it that not one single court, in the United States of America, accepts polygraphs as scientifically reliable and admissible? Why? Because they're not."

MN: "In front of the children, you kill their mother, and dispose of their body, her body, where nobody can find it. There's no marks, there's no defensive wounds. No scrapes, no blood. Nothing suggesting a struggle or a death. You then, in an hour and twelve minutes, go from one side of town, to the other. You then drop off her vehicle. You get in your vehicle, and you drive to your fathers house, in an hour and 12 minutes. It's not physically possible. That's what you all need to be asking Orlando Police Department, why they are jumping to this supposition, when the facts don't bare it out."

Lauren says there is no doubt that that is Michelle's Hummer seen pulling in (at Dale's condo on the neighbors surveillance video), but it is not seen leaving on the video. It is 3:18pm on 11/17. Authorities verified that a Hummer seen leaving, later in the video, belongs to a neighbor, and she believes it has different rims.

Lauren felt the time was off on the video, but it was later verified to only be off by 2 seconds. Still believing what Dale Jr had told when she tells Dale they can't find her and ask him where she is, she says he responded "Oh, well I saw her around 4 o'clock, we talked for 10 minutes, and then she said she was gonna go shopping, and then she left." She continues, "It was 4 o'clock when she dropped the twins off. She left our family salon at 2:30 to drive to pick her kids up from daycare, which she probably got there, I would say about 2:15, and that's not enough time for her to make it to Dales and have a conversation like that, from where we live, from Oviedo, all the way to Orlando." (Note by me: Lauren appears to give a wrong time of 2:15, likely having meant 3:15, possibly giving us an idea how far the daycare was from the salon, and how close it was to Dale Jr's condo).

The host asks Lauren if she has any idea where Dale Smith went and did he go to his father's house, and do you know at what time? "That night? Um, all I know is by the time I had called the police cuz she didn't show up for work, and her, her son, my nephew, called me at 6:50 saying have you seen mom? That I immediately got off the phone with her, err, with him, called her work, she wasn't there, and they called me back 20 minutes later, which she's always about 15 minutes early, she wasn't there, so I called the police to, to go drive by Dale's house, and stuff, where she said she was going. So they drove by there, you know, they said they didn't see her vehicle, and then we finally got a hold of Dale because she, when he didn't answer my phone calls earlier when I had tried calling him from my phone. So we got a hold of, um, his mother actually, and then my mom and his mom spoke and she said "well, I'll see if I can find Dale." Well, Dale ended up calling my mom back and saying "Well, I'm actually at my parents house. What's going on?" "Well, we can't find Michelle. When was the last time you saw her?" and he said "Oh. Well, she dropped the kids off about 4. What's going on? We said "She's missing," and he just said "Oh, okay."

I hope this is at least somewhat helpful in determining a time it was not BEFORE and 'no later than.'

 

[Jazzmaster]

If she were supposed to be somewhere at 4 and got there early, the older child were reasonably accustomed to fending for himself (and I think plenty of 11-year-olds do), and it was likely the only opportunity she'd have to get some sleep before her shift - then yes, I think she might. The twins had also just left daycare and if they weren't asleep, I'd be surprised. I've done similar plenty of times with a young child snoozing in the backseat. I have an older child and a preschooler, I frequently work into the wee hours and I often take sleep when and where I can get it, which is sometimes an older kid's school parking lot. I don't think I'd do it on a well-traveled street, but in a controlled environment, absolutely. I had no idea the concept was so outrageous.

Look, I don't know if Michelle took a nap. What I do know is that, if there is actually a discrepancy between the time DS claims Michelle arrived and when she actually arrived (and I hesitate to consider that as a fact in the first place), then there are explanations other than "Dale lied" that are both reasonable and plausible. Maybe he lied... but if one doesn't begin with a foregone conclusion, then IMO it's just as easy to conclude that he didn't.

Unfortunately, that is the case with most of the known evidence. I understand the most simple and popular explanation for Michelle's disappearance, and I don't necessarily disagree with it, but given the passage of two years and what I consider to be the very limited and highly refutable nature of the known evidence, it seems prudent to set aside the foregone conclusion and at least consider other possibilities. As just one example, if we accept as fact that there is indeed a 42-minute window of time that remains unaccounted, and further that someone else sent a decoy "Waterford" text within a half hour of Michelle leaving the condo, then IMO that 42-minute anomaly could be significant for reasons unrelated to Dale. If we can set Dale aside for a moment for the sake of theorizing, then (a) what could Michelle have been doing in those 42 minutes and, perhaps more importantly, (b) who could have encountered her while she was outside the condo and perhaps followed her from there? These are questions that I hope were asked and answered by investigators. I am afraid they may not have been, due to that same foregone conclusion that's brought this case to the unfortunate place it is today.

Dale's condo was located in a gated community, right? That would reduce traffic significantly, thereby limiting the number of people who might have the opportunity to observe the Hummer parked for a short while. Even if Michelle took a full 45 minute rest and we go with Dale's account that she only stayed for a short time after 4 PM, she was still in and out of the neighborhood in about an hour. That may not be not long enough to arouse much curiosity on the part of residents that would cause them to recall it later (especially during the day while many people are at work), but it's certainly long enough for a person with bad intentions to pass by and take notice. Is gate access keycard-operated? I wonder whether a list of the limited pool of people who could have had contact with or observed Michelle during that time (at least via normal vehicular gate access) was compiled and thoroughly investigated, or whether the sights were set in a particular direction from day one.

I am not following the logic in this theory. Michelle despised Dale and most likely wanted to get in and out of his complex as quick as possible. There is no basis for her taking a nap....There is no reason for her to drive into a complex and park for a nap when she needed to drop the kids off as quickly as possible to get things done before work....She had been texting up until arriving and then ALL activity stops once she arrives at the condo.

To ask who she could have encountered in those 42 minutes leaves one person....Dale Smith Jr....A person who admitted she arrived, says she left, but we have NO evidence she left under her free will at ANY time. In fact we have evidence she was no longer in control of her phone as early as 4:26....just an hour and eight minutes after she was spotted on film entering Dale's condo complex. He is the one with the missing 42 minutes not Michelle....

Do we really think she was abducted by the one armed bandit??? Who if it were a random stalker certainly would not strip the vehicle clean....OR is it far more likely that she was attacked by the one person who had motive, opportunity, and a desire to kill Michelle??? LE knows who did this, many of us know who did this, Dale certainly knows who did this. Now we must find where he hid her...JMO

 

[Jazzmaster]

Here is the best I find on that in my extensive media library:

HLN Special Report
(my video link no longer works for this report but it was dated November 30, 2011)
VIDEO NOTES
20:56
Dale got custody of the twins back.

Lauren says "they have a prime suspect, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was him."

"Number one is finding Michelle. Number two is making sure we keep a relationship with those kids, "Lauren says.

Lauren says she left the courtroom because she felt overwhelmed by people talking about whether they may or may not ever see her again. "It's really hard to hear," she says.

An arrest would change that equation. It would take time to get bail money together, and in the meantime, custody of the twins would most likely go to a relative.

Lauren said she rode with DCF and hung out with them for a little bit, then they took the kids out for a happy meal at McDonald's They played with blocks, and they were excited to see their brother, Austin, and the puppy, Diesel, who was at home. She said it was probably the most she's cried, just getting to see them because they bring such joy into their family's life and they have lived with the family, off and on, for the past 3 years, and nearly full-time for the past year and a half, saying "so our home is their home."

MN: "I think sometimes people forget we live in America and it's interesting how people, um, seem to forget there's a presumption of innocence."

"We have no witnesses. We have no DNA. We have no, um, suggestion of anything, except somebody with a history that people don't like, and other than that, there's zero evidence, and for that," (a reporter attempts to interrupt) "and for that, and for that, and for that you have somebody jumping to a conclusion that he murdered a child. Now, if everybody who was under suspicion would lose their children, I, I think we just need to go ahead and have a bonfire with the constitution." (note by me: MN most likely did not mean 'murdered a "child").

"What happened to our, what happened to our presumption of innocence? You got no evidence. If there were evidence, he'd be arrested at least. It only takes that much to arrest somebody. We're not talking about indictments, we're not talking about going to trial and proving somebody guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There's not enough evidence to arrest him, and for that, you wanna take away a persons children? Because some people on blogs are on a feeding frenzy? Not, not in my country."

Criminal Investigator, John Lucich suggests they will probably check Dale Jr's phone records and see if they intersect. There's "a lot of investigation to go on yet before we start jumping to conclusions."

Lauren says LE has done their best to keep them in the loop but they have to protect the investigation and they respect that.

MN: "It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario, when it comes to the polygraph. Why? If, in fact, somebody were to fail it, then they are going to be stigmatized. If they pass it, the investigation continues. Why is it that not one single court, in the United States of America, accepts polygraphs as scientifically reliable and admissible? Why? Because they're not."

MN: "In front of the children, you kill their mother, and dispose of their body, her body, where nobody can find it. There's no marks, there's no defensive wounds. No scrapes, no blood. Nothing suggesting a struggle or a death. You then, in an hour and twelve minutes, go from one side of town, to the other. You then drop off her vehicle. You get in your vehicle, and you drive to your fathers house, in an hour and 12 minutes. It's not physically possible. That's what you all need to be asking Orlando Police Department, why they are jumping to this supposition, when the facts don't bare it out."

Lauren says there is no doubt that that is Michelle's Hummer seen pulling in (at Dale's condo on the neighbors surveillance video), but it is not seen leaving on the video. It is 3:18pm on 11/17. Authorities verified that a Hummer seen leaving, later in the video, belongs to a neighbor, and she believes it has different rims.

Lauren felt the time was off on the video, but it was later verified to only be off by 2 seconds. Still believing what Dale Jr had told when she tells Dale they can't find her and ask him where she is, she says he responded "Oh, well I saw her around 4 o'clock, we talked for 10 minutes, and then she said she was gonna go shopping, and then she left." She continues, "It was 4 o'clock when she dropped the twins off. She left our family salon at 2:30 to drive to pick her kids up from daycare, which she probably got there, I would say about 2:15, and that's not enough time for her to make it to Dales and have a conversation like that, from where we live, from Oviedo, all the way to Orlando." (Note by me: Lauren appears to give a wrong time of 2:15, likely having meant 3:15, possibly giving us an idea how far the daycare was from the salon, and how close it was to Dale Jr's condo).

The host asks Lauren if she has any idea where Dale Smith went and did he go to his father's house, and do you know at what time? "That night? Um, all I know is by the time I had called the police cuz she didn't show up for work, and her, her son, my nephew, called me at 6:50 saying have you seen mom? That I immediately got off the phone with her, err, with him, called her work, she wasn't there, and they called me back 20 minutes later, which she's always about 15 minutes early, she wasn't there, so I called the police to, to go drive by Dale's house, and stuff, where she said she was going. So they drove by there, you know, they said they didn't see her vehicle, and then we finally got a hold of Dale because she, when he didn't answer my phone calls earlier when I had tried calling him from my phone. So we got a hold of, um, his mother actually, and then my mom and his mom spoke and she said "well, I'll see if I can find Dale." Well, Dale ended up calling my mom back and saying "Well, I'm actually at my parents house. What's going on?" "Well, we can't find Michelle. When was the last time you saw her?" and he said "Oh. Well, she dropped the kids off about 4. What's going on? We said "She's missing," and he just said "Oh, okay."

I hope this is at least somewhat helpful in determining a time it was not BEFORE and 'no later than.'

From this timeline (3:18 to 6:50), Dale had at least 3.5 hours to kill Michelle and hide evidence as long as his parents were willing to provide an alibi. All of what MN says IMO is spin. He knows full well that it is possible for the events spoken of to take place in the time allotted with assistance which I fully believe Dale had.

There are pics of Dale showing how he can kill someone on FB and he knew exactly how to do it without leaving DNA evidence. Even though he is a disgraced marine who was dishonorably discharged for inappropriate and illegal activities, he still had military training nonetheless...

 

[mikkismom]

Here is my (horrible) map. http://goo.gl/maps/1DSQW

A - DSJr. condo area (3:18 pm - Hummer on Video with stickers)
B - Phone - 'Waterford' text 4:26 pm

Police drive by DSJr. house 7:15-7:30pm - Michelle's car not there. (from HLN transcript) 6:50 - A calls YS, YS call's MP work, work calls back '20minutes later' ~ 7:10, YS calls PD for check - the 'drive by' (my est. 7:15-7:30)

C - Phone 'off' - 8:00 pm(?)
D - Hummer seen (no stickers) - 8:55 pm (Vineland and Conroy)
E - Walden Palms - Hummer left here. Seen as early as 10:00 pm (?)

DSJr. posted at 11:08 pm on his FB that 'the mother of his children' was missing - per Sparky (friend of MP)

Some of this is from memory - just trying to help with what we know.

jmo

Quoting my own post to keep a timeline. My update in blue

hth, jmo

 

[Sparky]

Quoting my own post to keep a timeline. My update in blue

hth, jmo

Would you be so kind and add he posted on FB at 11:08 letting everyone know the mother of his children was missing and LE search his Whole Condo. (which we confirmed with Tony Pipitone WFTV was there the next day and filmed LE searching the condo Nov. 18)

Oh and also the Hummer was seen at Vineland and Conroy at 8:55.
Thank you!

 

[Sparky]

Quoting my own post to keep a timeline. My update in blue

hth, jmo

Thank you so much!