FL - Somer Thompson, 7, Orange Park, 19 Oct 2009 #15

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Please excuse me if this news story has already been posted. I am just wondering if these attempted abductions at a nearby elementary school in 2008 are related.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/crimestoppers/news-article.aspx?storyid=119690&catid=69

Thanks SouthernMom. I had never seen that info before. A police-style vehicle is very unsettling. But it surprises me how little information the reporter gathered for the article. What time of day did it occur? What did the man look like? What did he say to the girls? And did you notice it was a father of a child that went door to door to spread the news...and the school sent out notification to the students. What did LE do to put the public on alert??

I'm really not trying to bash LE here because I know they have their hands full. But sometimes it seems there are areas where they could be way more proactive. As in the attempted abduction 10 days before Somer disappeared. Did anyone local even know about that until Somer disappeared? People need to be informed as soon as there is even 1 attempted abduction of a child. There are sirens for tornado warnings where I live. Why don't they sound a different siren if there is an abduction or attempted abduction or when a child goes missing??
 
Please excuse me if this news story has already been posted. I am just wondering if these attempted abductions at a nearby elementary school in 2008 are related.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/crimestoppers/news-article.aspx?storyid=119690&catid=69

I remember that very well. We lived in the trailer park down Catoma at that time before moving out to Orange Park in Dec 08. All of us in the park had our kids walk to school in large groups and several of us went out after school let out and watched the kids come from teh school to the park. Don't think they ever found out who it was either.
 
This was posted in previous thread (see [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4374356&postcount=290"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased FL-Somer Renee Thompson, 7, Orange Park thread #14[/ame] and [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4374374&postcount=293"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased FL=Somer Renee Thompson, 7, Orange Park thread #14[/ame]

Thanks, Alexandra!)

OP Junior High
Classes from 9:25-3:42
http://www.clay.k12.fl.us/opj/schedule.htm

Orange Park High School
School hours 7:15 a.m.-1:40 p.m.
http://www.clay.k12.fl.us/oph/parent_guide.htm#Attendance

LE stated that Grove Park Elementary got out at 2:30, IIRC.

btw, there are several schools in area and I didn't check the hours on all of them (if your theory includes the perp being another child).

Map of Schools

ETA: This also might be useful if you were considering employees connected with a school.
 
Would the white van not be reference to Kellam (his name is in national news,) the SO arrested in Albany? I mean, they making sure that he was not in the area or related to the abduction?

He was arrested on October 27th, so if the questions came after that day then it could be an enquiry as to his presence in the area.

Kellam had been in Albany since May 2009, but bought his white van just weeks before his attempted lure of boys.
imo....the van is not in regards to kellum....Justino spoke of le asking neighbors about a witnessed white van on Oct 23, and I think kellum was arrested after that.....jmo though I took it as if le has had tips of a white van sighting on gano around the burned house at the time of Somers disappearance .........
 
Just want to check some possibles here:

WD - Good catch by the way on whomever found that arrest report. Here are some things that really struck me about his guy. From the following article: One neighbor who didn't give her name said she had seen D. and thought that he had been living there for a couple of weeks. She thought the house may be rented by people who are going through rehab.
(Well that's interesting. Wonder where he was staying before that?)
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ounty-murder-abduction-103009,0,3659523.story

And then from a second article, even more interesting: D. is listed as an absconder/fugitive with a last known address in Polk County and is thought to have moved around before settling in Orange County, Clark said.
and
Investigators think D., 31, abducted the woman at knifepoint, took her to his Pine Hills home and killed her. He then drove back to Seminole County with the body covered in the back of his SUV, Clark said.
and
Leblanc moved a blanket that was in the front passenger seat of D's SUV and found Malave's body. There was a black plastic trash bag over her head,
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ounty-murder-abduction-103009,0,3659523.story

Ok. So here we have a guy who abducted this 19 yr old in Seminole county, took her in a vehicle BACK to his home where he assaulted and murdered her, then drove her BACK to the county where he abducted her, right PAST the abduction site. And I can't possibly know HOW he was going to dispose of the body, but she was covered in a black garbage bag. This at least suggests to me that she could have been headed for a nearby dumpster.

THIS seems to me to be a very possible MO for the Somer Thompson case (I say possible because we don't know yet whether or not she was assaulted and killed in her own neighborhood, or moved and then returned). I do know of another case where a guy abducted and sexually assaulted elementary school girls whom he would pick up and then return to the place of abduction. The same guy ALSO abducted and raped an adult female. Same scenario, returned her to the place of abduction. They finally got him when he molested the children of relatives in his family.

So anyway, I think this is a guy well worth looking at, and LE has already done a search of his house in the 19 yr old's case, so hopefully if there is evidence in Somer's case, they've got it, in terms of fibers etc. Also. why did this guy get the new (used) SUV? What HAD he been driving? Why was he leaving the state for Georgia?

Moving on. WK - I still like this guy. I noticed his bond amount is set at 25 grand. Seems high to me unless they suspect him of something and are just trying to keep him. Also, anyone else notice that his head and 'stache are shaved now?

CWG - I throw this out into the mix because I have this theory that says mom asked SP to come over to watch the kids because she saw, knew or had heard that someone she didn't trust was in the neighborhood (maybe neighbors were talking) and this guys name was put on the report at the time it was initially taken. It makes sense of her behavior in having SP come over for the day when I sense that in general those kids did a lot of alone time after school and it makes sense of her freaking and leaving work immediately and calling her bf when she found out at 4:00 that her daughter hadn't made it home - even though her daughter was known to wander. There was a reason she was more anxious about the kids that day, I think she almost alluded to it at the press conference, but I think LE hasn't wanted whatever it is to be public.

I find it difficult to attribute this to SP only because of the time frame. For instance, let's say Somer gets home BEFORE the other kids, then how much time does he have with her before her sibs get there? Not too long. There are always these other people in and out. He looks funny, but I just don't see that he had a lot of opportunity that day.

I had considered whether it was possible that Somer and her sibs got into it on the way home, and somehow she was critically injured. Kids came and told SP, SP called mom, and mom rushed home to cover it up - maybe the 13 yr old even helps with this. Mom's behavior in the press conferences doesn't really look like that to me though.

Then when they found the body, it seemed to me that LE felt the child had been sexually assaulted. You wouldn't necessarily use the words, heinous, and homicide with a death that could have arisen out of a childhood spat. So I kind of set this theory aside after the autopsy was done. LE just isn't acting like this is a family thing, even though they haven't officially cleared them.

It struck me when one of the commenters earlier said (sorry, I can never remember names) that LE had talked to his wife during the search but not to him and his son. Really? So have they not gone door to door and talked to everyone in the houses on the way from the school to her home? Like canvassed people for their general movements. Its not an undoable task right now while they have a lot of help. I think they need to find out who was home alone that day. High school kids included since they get out so early.

ok, that's it for now.
 
Just for the record, I don't care if anyone shoots down my theories. I'm the first to admit they are lame and based on media reports, the missing person report, and my own what ifs. (Heaven help us all!)

And sometimes, the little real information I do have falls out of my brain when I'm developing a theory, and I need someone to tell me "Noway, that won't work because ..."

I'm grateful to anyone who makes me think outside my comfort zone.

If we all agreed, there would be no point to this forum, except to pat each other on the back and tell each other how great we are. And that would get old. IMO
 
Just for the record, I don't care if anyone shoots down my theories. I'm the first to admit they are lame and based on media reports, the missing person report, and my own what ifs. (Heaven help us all!)

And sometimes, the little real information I do have falls out of my brain when I'm developing a theory, and I need someone to tell me "Noway, that won't work because ..."
IMO

I'm the same way.
 
I wish I could search the SO registry and get the names of all SO's who work within five miles of the school, even if they don't live within five miles.
 
Just for the record, I don't care if anyone shoots down my theories. I'm the first to admit they are lame and based on media reports, the missing person report, and my own what ifs. (Heaven help us all!)

And sometimes, the little real information I do have falls out of my brain when I'm developing a theory, and I need someone to tell me "Noway, that won't work because ..."

I'm grateful to anyone who makes me think outside my comfort zone.

If we all agreed, there would be no point to this forum, except to pat each other on the back and tell each other how great we are. And that would get old. IMO


I think we are all here trying to figure out what happened. If we all had it set in stone in our heads then we wouldn't bother posting imo. In a case like this with very little information out, setting up and shooting down all our theories helps keep us sane :dance:

Hopetohelp: The media interviewed my wife, not LE. LE was doing the same thing we were at the time, helping search. The whole media trying to interview during times like this is a joke. I gave up watching CNN and Fox News because they seem to be more trying to make the news as opposed to reporting the news. If I want someone's harebrained opinion, I got dozens of bars in the next city over and can find someone inebriated enough to give me their opinion. I watched the news to get information of whats going on around me. Then when the media has a chance to actually create news and serve a purpose, they stayed at the junior high school interrupting the search effort by calling out to searchers for interviews. :banghead:
 
I am home now....gotta leave again and get my son from school....got some new pics to show...will do that later today....
 
Would the white van not be reference to Kellam (his name is in national news,) the SO arrested in Albany? I mean, they making sure that he was not in the area or related to the abduction?

He was arrested on October 27th, so if the questions came after that day then it could be an enquiry as to his presence in the area.

Kellam had been in Albany since May 2009, but bought his white van just weeks before his attempted lure of boys.

oooooo! Someone's link below gave me a good answer.

This may have nothing to do with Somer's case, but it's worth mentioning.

Jacksonville police has been keeping an eye for a large white sedan (looks like an old police car.) There had been 6! attempted abductions of girls (5 to 12 y.o.) in the two months preceding Somer's disappearance.

This may have already been discussed in previous threads, though I don't remember seeing it. Will find more on this.
 
Here's a thought I had. Maybe the kids did come in after school by themselves. Maybe it is against code/law for a 10 yr. old and 2-7yr olds to be alone at home (i don't know this to be true).
What if SP was only brought into the picture because the kids get home, wait a while, no Somer. The older sister goes out looking, even the older brother goes out looking once he's home, and twin waits at home in case Somer returns. They can't find her, call their mother, the mother panicks b/c she's never come home this late.
Maybe, just maybe, she calls family friend SP to come to the house b/c if she has to report this, it won't look favorable for her that the kids have been coming in alone (if it is against some code etc). Or maybe she calls and asks SP to come check things out at the house to see if Somer really didn't come home, and to see if maybe Somer is hiding b/c her and her sister supposedly had words on the way home.
SP arrives to make sure Somer really isn't home and hiding, DT is on her way home, she knows oldest son is out looking, and spots him, picks him up etc. etc.
IF things happened this way, the following things would make sense.
-it would make sense that SP (who cares enough about kids to work with them) did not go out looking for Somer
-it would make sense that only the sister went out looking
-it would make sense that the older brother, once he got home, went to the park looking
It would take a lot of the questions away. Like why didn't SP look for Somer, why just sent the sister out, why was the brother at the park (although there are plenty of other explanations for this). It would also mean that DT didn't ask SP(someone who never has watched the kids) to watch the kids that day.

I don't know. As I've said I feel something about that whole SP scenerio seems off to me and it doesn't necessarily have to be off b/c he is involved in her disappearance, it could be off b/c someone is trying to cover up something else, unrelated to somer's disappearance. This scenerio kinda fits.

Not trying to accuse anyone of anything, just a theory to try to make the pieces that don't make sense fit.
 
Here's a thought I had. Maybe the kids did come in after school by themselves. Maybe it is against code/law for a 10 yr. old and 2-7yr olds to be alone at home (i don't know this to be true).
What if SP was only brought into the picture because the kids get home, wait a while, no Somer. The older sister goes out looking, even the older brother goes out looking once he's home, and twin waits at home in case Somer returns. They can't find her, call their mother, the mother panicks b/c she's never come home this late.
Maybe, just maybe, she calls family friend SP to come to the house b/c if she has to report this, it won't look favorable for her that the kids have been coming in alone (if it is against some code etc). Or maybe she calls and asks SP to come check things out at the house to see if Somer really didn't come home, and to see if maybe Somer is hiding b/c her and her sister supposedly had words on the way home.
SP arrives to make sure Somer really isn't home and hiding, DT is on her way home, she knows oldest son is out looking, and spots him, picks him up etc. etc.
IF things happened this way, the following things would make sense.
-it would make sense that SP (who cares enough about kids to work with them) did not go out looking for Somer
-it would make sense that only the sister went out looking
-it would make sense that the older brother, once he got home, went to the park looking
It would take a lot of the questions away. Like why didn't SP look for Somer, why just sent the sister out, why was the brother at the park (although there are plenty of other explanations for this). It would also mean that DT didn't ask SP(someone who never has watched the kids) to watch the kids that day.

I don't know. As I've said I feel something about that whole SP scenerio seems off to me and it doesn't necessarily have to be off b/c he is involved in her disappearance, it could be off b/c someone is trying to cover up something else, unrelated to somer's disappearance. This scenerio kinda fits.

Not trying to accuse anyone of anything, just a theory to try to make the pieces that don't make sense fit.

DT claimed she had lunch at home with SP. She works 30 minutes away from her house. Why would he be in her house for lunch to 4 PM. Just doesn't make ANY sense to me.

Someone is lying.
 
Here's a thought I had. Maybe the kids did come in after school by themselves. Maybe it is against code/law for a 10 yr. old and 2-7yr olds to be alone at home (i don't know this to be true).
What if SP was only brought into the picture because the kids get home, wait a while, no Somer. The older sister goes out looking, even the older brother goes out looking once he's home, and twin waits at home in case Somer returns. They can't find her, call their mother, the mother panicks b/c she's never come home this late.
Maybe, just maybe, she calls family friend SP to come to the house b/c if she has to report this, it won't look favorable for her that the kids have been coming in alone (if it is against some code etc). Or maybe she calls and asks SP to come check things out at the house to see if Somer really didn't come home, and to see if maybe Somer is hiding b/c her and her sister supposedly had words on the way home.
SP arrives to make sure Somer really isn't home and hiding, DT is on her way home, she knows oldest son is out looking, and spots him, picks him up etc. etc.
IF things happened this way, the following things would make sense.
-it would make sense that SP (who cares enough about kids to work with them) did not go out looking for Somer
-it would make sense that only the sister went out looking
-it would make sense that the older brother, once he got home, went to the park looking
It would take a lot of the questions away. Like why didn't SP look for Somer, why just sent the sister out, why was the brother at the park (although there are plenty of other explanations for this). It would also mean that DT didn't ask SP(someone who never has watched the kids) to watch the kids that day.

I don't know. As I've said I feel something about that whole SP scenerio seems off to me and it doesn't necessarily have to be off b/c he is involved in her disappearance, it could be off b/c someone is trying to cover up something else, unrelated to somer's disappearance. This scenerio kinda fits.

Not trying to accuse anyone of anything, just a theory to try to make the pieces that don't make sense fit.

The only thing is, she ate lunch with SP at her house that day. And I thought the story was that he then stayed there the rest of the afternoon and waited for the kids. In which case, it already places him at the house. I think she had a sitter before for after school, so I keep thinking it was normal for her to work a normal work day. I don't know.

I don't know about Florida, but in Texas, a school age child can be home alone after school unless the parent has reason to know that the child's behavior or developmental status puts them in more danger than the average child that age. It kind of developed out the whole "latchkey" child thing.

Anything that changes the equation, siblings who physically hurt each other, children who wander, children with developmental issues, adhd, etc, makes the state concerned that a parent should have known a child was at additional risk.

I was a single mother. I didn't have much money, and I put myself through school. For me, it was never even an option to let my young child walk home alone, and I didn't let him stay home alone ever until much later. I rearranged my lunch hour in order to pick him up, or I paid for after school care (a lot of programs have grants for parents of lower income). There are resources out there if you pursue them.
 
What is the legal age a child can be left home alone in Florida?

According to the Department of Children and Families, Abuse Hotline, there is no specific age defined in Florida law regarding when a childcan be left home alone. However, they have indicated that a child aged 8 or older who is mature and knows whom to contact in an emergency and is not disabled or mentally challenged can be left at home alone. For further information and clarification of this rule, contact the DCF Abuse Hotline at (1-800)-962-2873.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_legal_age_a_child_can_be_left_home_alone_in_Florida

The National SAFEKIDS Campaign recommends that no child under the age of 12 be left at home alone.
at http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm

According to the link above, Florida has no age limit that children can be home alone.
Florida Eighth Judicial Circuit Family Court FAQ

At what age is it legal to leave a child home alone? There is no minimum age established by law. Whether a child can be left alone depends on a number of factors, including: the child's maturity; the safety of the environment they are in; how long they are left alone; whether or not they can get in touch with their parent or caregiver; and whether or not they know what to do in case of an emergency. Leaving a child alone can constitute neglect on the part of a parent or caregiver if the child could be in any danger of harm.
 
did anyone think she could have scheduled a reiki treatment with SP over her lunch hour???? just a thought
 
Here's a thought I had. Maybe the kids did come in after school by themselves. Maybe it is against code/law for a 10 yr. old and 2-7yr olds to be alone at home (i don't know this to be true).
What if SP was only brought into the picture because the kids get home, wait a while, no Somer. The older sister goes out looking, even the older brother goes out looking once he's home, and twin waits at home in case Somer returns. They can't find her, call their mother, the mother panicks b/c she's never come home this late.
Maybe, just maybe, she calls family friend SP to come to the house b/c if she has to report this, it won't look favorable for her that the kids have been coming in alone (if it is against some code etc). Or maybe she calls and asks SP to come check things out at the house to see if Somer really didn't come home, and to see if maybe Somer is hiding b/c her and her sister supposedly had words on the way home.
SP arrives to make sure Somer really isn't home and hiding, DT is on her way home, she knows oldest son is out looking, and spots him, picks him up etc. etc.
IF things happened this way, the following things would make sense.
-it would make sense that SP (who cares enough about kids to work with them) did not go out looking for Somer
-it would make sense that only the sister went out looking
-it would make sense that the older brother, once he got home, went to the park looking
It would take a lot of the questions away. Like why didn't SP look for Somer, why just sent the sister out, why was the brother at the park (although there are plenty of other explanations for this). It would also mean that DT didn't ask SP(someone who never has watched the kids) to watch the kids that day.

I don't know. As I've said I feel something about that whole SP scenerio seems off to me and it doesn't necessarily have to be off b/c he is involved in her disappearance, it could be off b/c someone is trying to cover up something else, unrelated to somer's disappearance. This scenerio kinda fits.

Not trying to accuse anyone of anything, just a theory to try to make the pieces that don't make sense fit.


That's plausible.

Not sure if it's illegal but I believe you need a 13yr old to be able to sit younger children.

This is my take on your post:

SP didn't go out looking because maybe AT told him what happened. All it would take is her saying, "She does this all the time" for him to say, "well go get her and bring her home anyway".

AT was sent out alone as she is the oldest, and maybe SP felt having the twin go out and possibly separating from AT during the search would mean he would have both twins running around with no one older looking out for them.

The older brother may have gone to the park because she's done this before and they may have found her at the park before.

Wouldn't they have checked the phone records already? I mean if SP was in the area already to get her text and respond that Somer hadn't come home, LE would be able to trace the pings of the cell phone. I believe this would've already made news if they had seen he wasn't near the closest tower to Somers home.

If he was at home or work, I'm not sure how long it would take him to get to her place in time to make it look like he was there all along.

I don't think I can stress just how much of a pain it is to drive in this area. Traffic can be heavy between 730 to 930 then again from 200 to 4ish. School zone speed limits is 15, Debarry is a major route between Kingsley and Wells, and there are stop signs everywhere. Then toss in crossing guards, and it's very slow during school hours.

Blanding and US 17 traffic to the area from Jax can feel like rush hour all day long. It takes, normally 20-30 minutes just to go from 295 to Woodside, Edson, and a little longer to Kingsley, longer if the mall is having a good day. Then once you get off Blanding you have to deal with the 4 schools in the area, stop signs all over the place and you run into the time issue.

It's not impossible, but the best fit is he was on that side of town already if it was a cover up, and I really believe the kids would've said he wasn't there during interviews with LE.
 
What is the legal age a child can be left home alone in Florida?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_legal_age_a_child_can_be_left_home_alone_in_Florida

at http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm

According to the link above, Florida has no age limit that children can be home alone.
Florida Eighth Judicial Circuit Family Court FAQ

I'm glad you posted this. This morning, I had a conversation with my daycare director on this same topic.

My 4 DS have subsidized daycare, but my oldest DS will no longer be eligible when he turns 11 on Jan. 1st.
 
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