Found Deceased FL - Tammy Alexander, 16, Brooksville, 8 Nov 1979

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Thank you. That is what I thought. I could find no reliable reference about "the argument" or an accident that diverted patrols from responding to it. The only reference to the station wagon is related to 'diner guy' (again, on the ViCAP notice).

Still, 'diner guy' and a "tan station wagon with side paneling" seem to be important.

The vehicle was never seen with diner guy. The only time the tan station wagon was seen was parked along the road with no lights on and nobody around. The waitress who saw the couple at the Diner, stated she saw them leave, but she did not look to see what kind of vehicle they left in.

There was a fatal traffic accident that night, somewhere we have the link to the newspaper article about it.
 
??? I'm confused. Please bear with me. The ViCAP poster/flyer (see post #309) surely suggests that "unknown subject" was associated with a station wagon. Am I reading that list of characteristics (height/sex/race/glasses/car) wrong? Isn't "unknown subject" the guy from the diner (aka 'diner guy')?
 
And, how about the jacket... I noticed that on the original Livingston County Sheriffs poster - published in the Avon Herald - for (then unidentified) Tammy Jo Alexander, the manufacturer was cited as "Auto Sports, Inc."... not "Auto Sports Products, Inc." Is there any guidance about which it actually is? And where the firm was located? Also, there are multiple references to the jacket having been untrackable because it had been a "promotion". What was the promotion? Seems odd that a "promotional" item would have no advertising whatsoever on it(?). But even if not plastered with ads, it had to be "promoting" something, right?

I am going to speculate and say that when authorities say the jacket was a "promotional" item, they mean that the jacket was widely distributed free of charge. Person A goes to Event B and picks up a freebie for having attended Event B. Perhaps there were a lot of Event Bs across a wide area, making tracking down where exactly this one particular jacket was given away next to impossible.
 
I am going to speculate and say that when authorities say the jacket was a "promotional" item, they mean that the jacket was widely distributed free of charge. Person A goes to Event B and picks up a freebie for having attended Event B. Perhaps there were a lot of Event Bs across a wide area, making tracking down where exactly this one particular jacket was given away next to impossible.

Exactly. There could be some interest in the 'type' of promotion and for what (even if somewhat general). As I recall, the references indicated that the promotion was "one time". Not sure if that's reliable(?). For example, it might be meaningful if it was a promotion for, say, the "Pacific Coast Late Model" circuit versus, say, the "Can-Am TQ Midget" series versus, say, 'buy four quarts of Quaker State 10W30 motor oil and get a free jacket'. In none of those examples would it pinpoint a specific jacket... but it would provide some perspective IMO.
 
The promotion was held at race tracks all over that summer, so tracing the jacket would be impossible.

Carl created the poster you see in post #309. The vehicle was never seen with diner guy, actually no vehicle was. The description of the vehicle came to us from a private individual who called into LCSO to report seeing it along the side of the road. That is also where the story about the man and woman arguing came from. However, we can not seem to verify that there was any report of a couple arguing.
 
I need to rephrase my last post......Carl created the poster in post# 309, but using one of the old VICAP poster. If you look at the poster that is out now, you will notice the vehicle information is gone.
 
The promotion was held at race tracks all over that summer, so tracing the jacket would be impossible.

Carl created the poster you see in post #309. The vehicle was never seen with diner guy, actually no vehicle was. The description of the vehicle came to us from a private individual who called into LCSO to report seeing it along the side of the road. That is also where the story about the man and woman arguing came from. However, we can not seem to verify that there was any report of a couple arguing.

As for the couple arguing; people can believe it or not; we should move on due to not having anything verified by LE on it. If it happened; it's possible LE are not going to verify it. We've already asked them if they'd give us her records via Freedom of Information Act & were told no; this is a murder investigation. I'm pasting in the verified info that we shared in Cali's thread & FB page; also pasting in follow up questions that pertain to the car because it was so long ago; I personally could not recall what we've asked & gotten answers to. I thought we had asked more questions about the car but we did not.

We all have to remember that Major Burgess is reading her file; he does not know it like York did. I've questioned some of the things he's said because at one point Schneider had put stuff back out there with the note on Help ID Me which I'll post in another post. I remember being floored by it

Annie,
Ok, this is what I have found after going through the entire original report. The station wagon seen in the area was parked roadside with no lights on and nobody around - no argument. It appears that the boys that were walking in the area were spoken to back in 79. They saw an El Camino that was driving fast in the area - still no argument. I find no write up regarding the people arguing roadside.

Investigator Bradley J. Schneider
Livingston County Sheriff's Office
Criminal Investigations Division
4 Court St
Geneseo, NY 14454

This does match the information given to me last year by Chief Deputy Burgess. When I asked him about the car, his reply was, I do not know what car you are referring to. No vehicle has ever been linked to Cali. When I asked about the couple arguing, he also said there was no report of a couple arguing along the side of the road that night.

We obtained the information about the couple arguing from a private individual, so maybe they got the dates confused? Or perhaps as many years as it has been, they simply got the exact details confused? There is nothing in any of the original reports about a couple being seen along that road that night.


Per Nameless Helper 10/23/13
1. Where did the FBI sketch of the man originate?
The sketch was done from the recollection of the waitress at the Lima Diner
2. Is the vehicle description listed on the FBI site accurate? If the description is accurate, were vehicle registrations and inspection stations checked to find out who in NY owned that color/type of vehicle? The vehicle was most likely an Olds Cutlass Wagon, or a Ford Torino Squire. The blue and white ones with the wood side panel were much more popular in NY than the tan one.

The vehicle description came from a witness that saw a vehicle near the scene, but was never absolutely connected with the male and female seen at the Diner. Due to that route being well-traveled, there were several vehicles that were noted, but none were ever definitively tied to the crime or scene.

A few of us got together to write a list of questions; Nameless Helper offered to be the one to speak to LE.

VERIFIED INFORMATION
Per Nameless Helper phone call 10/1 to LE

1. Blood type is A-
2. Shot first in the head then dragged face down into the field. No effort to hide her. Jacket was red. Road was busier then as the interstate was not built yet.
3. Dental isotopes were done in 05 and last year. First suggested Carolina to Texas. Second south west. Indication I a lot of corn in the diet.
4. His gut reaction is that she was on the older end of the age range given maturity and fewer food additives then accelerating development.
5. They match primarily with DNA and dentals.
6. Native Am heritage is a possibility but month in in the tests can confirm that. They recently flooded the SW with fliers including the reservations but no response.

List of questions 10/3 -
1. Was a tox screen done? We'd like to request a copy of the tox screen, police report and autopsy report. Do we need to use the Freedom of Info act to request it?

A - Tox screen was done and there were no drugs or alcohol in her system. I would be happy to answer any questions you have, but releasing any documents in their entirety may prove detrimental to a prosecution should be ever get to that point. Even though this is most certainly a "cold case", it is still open and being actively investigated.

2. Was it determined where she ate her last meal?

A - It was not determined with certainty, but we believe her last meal was at the Lima Diner. They were the only restaurant within a reasonable distance that served ham and corn the evening before she was found. The witness remembered a male and female coming in and that the female wore a red jacket that appeared too big for her. This witness was unable to positively identify our Jane Doe.

3. Had she ever given Birth?

A - There was no evidence of past or present pregnancy

4. General Hygiene & Hair - Has any info been released on her hygiene beyond her tooth decay? She cared enough to frost her hair approx 4 months before her death. Did the M.E. indicate whether he thought her hair was permed? Did the ME indicate how old her perm was? Did they keep any hair? Was she brushing her teeth? Did she shave her underarms and legs? Remove any facial hairs? Her eyebrows look tweezed, so she had access to a tweezer at some point. If she had been raised or living in the SW as the isotope testing on her teeth as well as the pollen revealed, then most likely she was hitch hiking from area to area. That was common back then. When kids are out on their own, they do not follow the normal routine so knowing the above would be helpful in determining if she was hitching for a while or not. i.e. how long was she likely on her own.

A - Her hygiene appeared to be good. I would surmise that she did brush her teeth, although there was no evidence of any dental care whatsoever. She did appear to have shaved her legs and under her arms. She had minimal facial hair and her eyebrows were normal, not bushy.

5. NECKLACE RELATED - many of us had the same jewelry; it was sold at Grants before they went out of business. Some got theirs through the
mail... Was the turquoise checked to see what region it came from? My understanding is that each mine has different "strains". Perhaps that can pinpoint a location.

A - We have sent the necklace to the FBI lab on two occasions, but to my knowledge there has never been a "location" determined for the turquoise.

6. AGE RELATED - What was taken into consideration to get her age range? We know wisdom teeth; were growth plates used too? What was the age change from 20 to mid teen based on?

A - There was an original autopsy done at that time by a local doctor who was our County Coroner. There was a follow up exam done as well by someone from the Monroe County Medical Examiners Office. The original doctor thought 19-21 yrs. old. The second examiner estimated her to be 16-18 years of age and described her as "mid to late adolescence". I do not believe growth plates were used in any of these estimates. X Rays done at that time showed what the doctor described as a "lack of bone development for someone over 18 years old". He then estimated her at 16 years of age, plus or minus 2 years.

7. TEETH RELATED - What type of dental work was performed by a "foreign" dentist? Had her Canines come all the way down?

A - I have no idea what you mean by foreign dentist. She had never had any type of dental care. Two wisdom teeth had erupted, another was severely eroded and the fourth was still below the gums. Yes, her canines were all the way down.

8. CLOTHING RELATED - Brands and sizes and gender of shirt, pants, and shoes. Brand of panties and size. Did her shoes fit her? Size of her pants, shirt, panties and shoes. Were the pants also mens pants?

A - Her pants were a size 7. Bra was 32C. Blouse was a medium. Jacket was a large. There were no labels or size located on her panties. Shoes were a size 8. I have no information on fitment. I would say the pants were not mens due to size (7)

9. DINER RELATED - What was the name of the Diner ( in LIMA?)? How far from where she was found? Was she wearing the same outfit when at the diner? Since the waitress described the guy she was with, did they act like they knew each other?

A - Lima Diner was the name. The distance from where she was found to the Diner is just under 9 miles. The waitress noted the red jacket that appeared too big for her. The waitress noted that she appeared younger than the male she was with and the waitress assumed maybe they were brother and sister. She did not note any unusual behavior between the two.

10. TRUCKER RELATED - How many truckers actually remembered seeing her hitching? Where was the truck stop that the trucker saw her at (at 20 and 5 or somewhere else?)? How many thought her destination was Boston Mass Vs NY? How many truckers actually admitted seeing her the night before?

A - We checked every restaurant and truck stop headed east between Hopewell, NY (Ontario County) and Caledonia. We did not locate anyone other than the waitress at the Lima Diner who had any information. I am not aware of any truckers that saw her.

11. MISC - What part of her body was the spent slug found under? Since the slug was found under her the shot had to have exited her body, so most likely was the last shot. Were attempts made to get touch DNA off her clothing? If she was drug by feet into the cornfield, there should be touch DNA on her somewhere. The slug being under her says to me, the killer did not turn her over. Yet, no harm in checking that since one of us will have him on the phone anyway, right?

A - The slug entered her back and exited under her left arm near her breast. The slug was located while sifting the dirt under the body. Its location was consistent with the exit wound. We believe she was shot in the head at the shoulder of the road. Then dragged into the field by the feet face down. She was then shot again in the back. There was no such thing as touch DNA back then. Therefore, the evidence was not handled like we would today. Touch DNA was completed on the evidence, but was done recently.

12. Will they consider sending her DNA to 23andme to get ancestry line done? It is $99; they may be able to have it donated. It very well could provide a lead to her family name via matching cousins or siblings. Roselvr will provide info

A - Maybe. I would want more information first. We would need to know if we can provide a DNA profile as opposed to a swab. Due to the circumstances, we don't have a swab to send them. but there is already a profile for her based on our exhumation in 2005.
 
Help ID Me FB Page- Pollen samples identify 3 states unidentified teen could have visited before dying in New York November 13, 2014 at 1:27pm

On Nov. 10, 1979, a passing motorist spotted a fully clothed girl lying face-down in a cornfield along Route 20. It’s believed she had died within 24 hours of being found, and the Livingston County Sheriff’s Office hopes a few key clues will lead to her identification.

“Any lead that we’ve had regarding a possible suspect, we’ve tracked down at this point,” Livingston County Sheriff’s Office Investigator Brad Schneider said. “We do on a regular basis get submissions from the general public saying they believe Jane Doe may be somebody they’ve come across on the Internet or someone they know who is missing. We do everything in our powers to track down that lead. Unfortunately, we’ve come back with no matches.

“We’re really looking for the public’s help to give this girl a name,” Investigator Schneider said.

The girl is estimated to have been 14-17 years old. She was 5 feet 3 inches tall, weighed 120 pounds, had brown eyes and short brown hair that was recently frosted. Notably, she was tanned and had visible tan lines, which would be unusual for fall in New York.

After she was found, police interviewed several witnesses who reported seeing two white, female hitchhikers near the intersection of Routes 5 and 20. One witness’ description closely matched the unknown girl, right down to the red windbreaker that was found with her body. She was also wearing tan corduroy pants, a multi-colored plaid shirt, blue knee socks, and brown shoes. She had on a silver, beaded necklace with three, small turquoise birds. Her pants pockets had been turned inside-out.

A review by a forensic odontologist noted that untreated lesions on the inside of her mouth may have put her in extreme pain, such that a person would have noticed chewing problems on one side of her mouth and outward signs of discomfort.

In 2005, law enforcement had special pollen testing done on the girl’s clothing by a professor at Texas A & M University. The results may indicate where she was before coming to New York, because the pollen could have only come from Arizona, California or Florida.

“I think it’d be fair to say she was in those areas, but we aren’t ruling out that she was local to New York – she just happened to be in one of those areas relatively close to the time she died,” Investigator Schneider said.

If you recognize Jane Doe’s description or have any idea who she might be, please call the Livingston County Sheriff’s Office at 585-243-7100 or the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children at 1-800-THE-LOST.

10426715_945428345485073_1650859722252762229_n.jpg
 

From your link:

One of the leads investigators are pursuing is Alexander's ties to Rainbow Prison Ministry in Young Harris, Georgia, located in a rural mountainous area in the northeastern corner of the state.

Little public information is available about the ministry, which worked with inmates who had been released on probation or parole. But investigators have made a connection between Alexander and the ministry.
 
And, interestingly, the husband/wife officers of Rainbow Prison Ministry once lived in the Tampa/Hernando area... and another officer came from Bushnell. All pretty close to Tammy Jo Alexander's area of Florida. Also, in what has to be an eerie coincidence, the President of the firm once lived on Alexander Street.

Maybe worth noting(?)... both Attica correctional and Wende correctional are nearby and easily accessed by Rts 5 and/or 20.
 
Driving home from work in Hamilton Ohio just north of Cincinnati I passed a billboard for the FBI asking for any info on her case. I could barely read the print but I recognized her picture.

What highway was it on?

Hmmm. Wow. That's quite a bit further west than I had speculated. Very cool!

I wonder if there are any in the metro Buffalo area(?).

These are the sightings I have so far

1979 Caledonia NY Jane Doe Unidentified Teen shared their photo.
Has anyone seen the billboard yet? If so where did you see it? I know one was seen on I-64 in Chesapeake VA
490 in Rochester, NY
SR 436 in Longwood, FL and I4 in Orlando, FL

Driving home from work in Hamilton Ohio just north of Cincinnati
 

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Not that y'all need this old woman to support you, but I'd never call Carl, Roselvr or Still_Seek_Answers 'casual' anything. Incredibly committed? Yes! Stubborn in their pursuit? Yes! Bulldogs? Hell yeah!!! Most of the long-time WS posters are.
 
why did Tammy dye her hair from blonde to brown? "new life" and hoping to prevent herself being recognised?
 
why did Tammy dye her hair from blonde to brown? "new life" and hoping to prevent herself being recognised?

Tammy did not dye her hair from blonde to brown. Her natural hair color was a dark blonde/dirty blonde/ dishwater blonde or whatever you want to call it. She kept it bleached to a lighter blonde color. She preferred the blonde blonde look.
 

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