Found Deceased FL - Tammy Alexander, 16, Brooksville, 8 Nov 1979

[Roselvr]

it just seemed odd to me, particularly as some men's clothing isn't designed for *advertiser censored* or a girl's bottom shape and body shape.

Not odd back then; I had a men's Mustang club jacket
Actually still wear a lot of mens clothing as I have long arms

 

[four4rock]

Maybe I haven't filtered the various reports correctly(?), but I understand that only the shirt & jacket are said to be "mens". The pants - if I've followed properly - are "Size 7", which seems to indicate women's (or more precisely, "Juniors", because of the odd numbered sizing). Seems like that could be a reasonable and expected size for a 5'3"/115lb girl.

I cannot recall if there are reports of the "boys" shirt size, but (for as much as I could tell in crime scene photographs) I didn't think that it appeared drastically unreasonably sized.

What strikes me as interesting about clothing style is its juxtaposition to the 'frosted hair'. As I recall, girls in the late 70's in my area (Western New York State) that had frosted hair would not typically be those wearing nondescript cords, plaid shirts, earth-like shoes, with quite limited/modest jewelry. Of course, the Jenkins' socio-economic situation is to be considered (Which I believe is part of what is being implied by investigators.).

 

[Alaric]

Maybe I haven't filtered the various reports correctly(?), but I understand that only the shirt & jacket are said to be "mens". The pants - if I've followed properly - are "Size 7", which seems to indicate women's (or more precisely, "Juniors", because of the odd numbered sizing). Seems like that could be a reasonable and expected size for a 5'3"/115lb girl.

I cannot recall if there are reports of the "boys" shirt size, but (for as much as I could tell in crime scene photographs) I didn't think that it appeared drastically unreasonably sized.

What strikes me as interesting about clothing style is its juxtaposition to the 'frosted hair'. As I recall, girls in the late 70's in my area (Western New York State) that had frosted hair would not typically be those wearing nondescript cords, plaid shirts, earth-like shoes, with quite limited/modest jewelry. Of course, the Jenkins' socio-economic situation is to be considered (Which I believe is part of what is being implied by investigators.).

I thought the same thing about the picture of the guy she was last seen with. The glasses he wore weren't very fashionable at that time. If I would have worn those while I was going to school (I was in the eleventh grade at the time) I would have been made fun of. He had to have been in his late twenties or thirties to still be wearing those. The fact that he didn't keep up with fashion and was driving that type of station wagon may indicate that he wasn't well off financially. Perhaps another clue that they knew each other?

 

[four4rock]

I thought the same thing about the picture of the guy she was last seen with. The glasses he wore weren't very fashionable at that time. If I would have worn those while I was going to school (I was in the eleventh grade at the time) I would have been made fun of. He had to have been in his late twenties or thirties to still be wearing those. The fact that he didn't keep up with fashion and was driving that type of station wagon may indicate that he wasn't well off financially. Perhaps another clue that they knew each other?

Yep, I agree with spectacle fashion of the time. But, y'know, there's room for interpretation about 'diner guys' appearance. The written description states that he was wearing "black wire rimmed glasses". Yet, the sketch makes it appear that the frames were far heavier than "wire rimmed". I think that is an important variation which could significantly alter 'diner guys' appearance. It would be interesting to see a "re-sketch" with lighter weight frames.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Yep, I agree with spectacle fashion of the time. But, y'know, there's room for interpretation about 'diner guys' appearance. The written description states that he was wearing "black wire rimmed glasses". Yet, the sketch makes it appear that the frames were far heavier than "wire rimmed". I think that is an important variation which could significantly alter 'diner guys' appearance. It would be interesting to see a "re-sketch" with lighter weight frames.

I agree. The glasses were possibly much more stylish than the sketch indicate. Also, for the time frame, Tammy's clothing were really not odd. Many of the girls her age at that time did their hair one way and dressed in a completely different fashion. The clothing she was found in where her normal style.

 

[Backwoods]

Can someone point me toward where I can view the "diner guy" sketch -- or, even better, post it here in the thread?

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Can someone point me toward where I can view the "diner guy" sketch -- or, even better, post it here in the thread?

 

[Backwoods]

View attachment 69807

Thank you very much!

 

[four4rock]

Thinking about 'diner guy'. And, sometimes what is not said is just as notable as what is said.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but almost no matter what, 'diner guy' is the last known person to see Tammy Jo Alexander alive. Second last (I guess) would be anyone in the Lima Diner (including, but maybe not limited to, the waitress).

I would think that would make 'diner guy' pretty important, no?

Unless I'm missing it, "official" references to 'diner guy' are gone at this point. He was not mentioned (that I heard/saw) in any recent comments by the Livingston County Sheriff's Office, Federal Bureau of Investigation, or the Florida authorities. To my knowledge, both the LCSO and FBI used to have links/references to his description and the sketch. I no longer see those.

I realize that a strong recent focus is on the Lamar billboards. But why make no mention whatsoever of this guy? Not even a passing reference. Again, the last known person to see her alive. I wonder if his identity is already known? Thoughts?

 

[Alaric]

Thinking about 'diner guy'. And, sometimes what is not said is just as notable as what is said.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but almost no matter what, 'diner guy' is the last known person to see Tammy Jo Alexander alive. Second last (I guess) would be anyone in the Lima Diner (including, but maybe not limited to, the waitress).

I would think that would make 'diner guy' pretty important, no?

Unless I'm missing it, "official" references to 'diner guy' are gone at this point. He was not mentioned (that I heard/saw) in any recent comments by the Livingston County Sheriff's Office, Federal Bureau of Investigation, or the Florida authorities. To my knowledge, both the LCSO and FBI used to have links/references to his description and the sketch. I no longer see those.

I realize that a strong recent focus is on the Lamar billboards. But why make no mention whatsoever of this guy? Not even a passing reference. Again, the last known person to see her alive. I wonder if his identity is already known? Thoughts?

Now that they know who she is and the case is more active and in the news, it's possible that they don't want to make him nervous and hide out, which would make an arrest difficult should they learn his identity. You're right though, seeing as how she was from Florida and presumably didn't know any one from this area it seems likely that he was involved some how. I just have my doubts that he was from the New York area.

 

[Backwoods]

Wondering how "diner guy" paid for the meal? Cash or...?

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Wondering how "diner guy" paid for the meal? Cash or...?

Yes he paid with cash, and nothing about it made the waitress uncomfortable. Tammy appeared comfortable and at ease with him, so much so that the waitress had the impression they were brother and sister. I will send an email and ask why the focus has been taken of diner guy, I can't promise I will get told anything helpful.....but no harm in trying

 

[Roselvr]

in the GDF Current Leads; Facts and Updates thread; WS member Needtoid says she submitted Tammy as Cali after seeing the Zabasearch - I had asked for more info such as to who & what date via PM

I just looked back at my database and notes. I had contacted police over 7 years ago asking if they would compare these. When you google the unidentified and missing dates it is obvious it is her. Never heard back from anyone. Pretty disappointing that this happens a lot to other cases as well. Could have been solved long ago. I'm sure that other people have clued them in on Tammy and this UID person before. She was like one of the only females to disappear the prior day. Same goes w Emma Vaugn and Princess Doe. I alerted the police 7 yrs ago....no replies.

The information on Tammy was online at http://www.zabasearch.com/messages/zaba_messages_thread.php?fid=800572
I came across that post a while back. I do a lot of keyword searches on zabasearch for "missing" or "trying to find", etc.

Zabasearch post - Original Message:

Message Sent Wednesday, March 19 1:25 (Pacific Time)
From: Gainesville, FL, US
Area Code: 352
Zip Code: Unknown
I'm trying to find a woman named Tammy Jo Alexander. She would be 44 now and use to live in Brooksville, Florida. Her mother is Barbara Jenkins and her father is Bobby Alexander. I believe she was born in Atlanta on 11/2/63. She became missing in 1978-79 and may have fallen into prostitution in St. Petersburg. If anyone has any information they can reach me at proshop At peoplepc.com or call me at *advertiser censored*-*advertiser censored*-XXXX between 1pm and 8pm Eastern time. Thanks, Kevin - See more

That's what I was trying to say to the person who said it is rude to discuss PM here. I had realized I was in the wrong thread. Someone a while ago started discussing Tammy's case here, sorry.

I talked to about five different people, all regarding females who went missing from 1976-1978 who fit the description of the unidentified girl at hand. I called the medical examiner's office and left a message with a secretary. Funny thing is, when I did that, I had originally asked to speak to the medical examiner personally bc I know how that works. They take your random tip and your note gets tossed. So that is why now I do NOT leave msg's with the secretaries. I'm going through this with yet another case now, in which I keep asking to talk to the ME and I'm told that he or she will just get the msg and will get back to me. I also called in several other missing people along with that list, a few others from Zabasearch who I didn't even see reported as missing.

There are many missing ppl on Zaba that aren't reported missing, who I make calls about, but I never hear back from anyone. This is my point...how do I assure the word is passed to the ME? I don't post too often on Websleuths, as I just do my own personal advocacy. But maybe you all can help me with other cases that I've been trying to reach the ME. I don't want the same thing to happen to others. There are other cases that are like pretty obvious it is the same person, and the examiners won't listen to my tips. That is what makes advocating so hard. You can only go so far and then you hit a peak in which the matter lies in the hands of those who have to hear your tip. It is up to them if they want to take your tip or not. Most of the tips I've given to authorities have fallen through the cracks.

 

[biscuits222]

maybe you all can help me with other cases that I've been trying to reach the ME. There are other cases that are like pretty obvious it is the same person

I'm sure if you put your ideas on the threads then a discussion can happen about it. Carl and others may well have been intrigued by a late-70s missing teen girl not in the missing persons' registers and may have advocated to law enforcement too since they seem to have good conversations with many people in the authorities.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...urquoise-Necklace-Nov-79-*Tammy-Jo-Alexander*

She was like one of the only females to disappear the prior day

Is there any evidence Tammy went missing the prior day? She went missing from Florida in the late 70s then turned up dead in New York on 9th November 1979? The only date that is given at the Zabasearch link is She became missing in 1978-79, which doesn't specify an actual day. The body was tanned so that indicates being in the sunnier south not long before she was killed I suppose, but this doesn't let us see a date for going missing. If you look at the Caledonia Jane Doe thread in the Unidentified you'll see they went through many girls who went missing in the late 70s and who were just as good candidates as the Tammy who was presented in the Zabasearch thread. It was not obvious it was Tammy just because of the dates. They needed context such as DNA in order to positively identify Tammy as Caledonia.

When you google the unidentified and missing dates it is obvious it is her.

There is no actual "missing date", surely? I don't see how it's obvious Caledonia was Tammy just by seeing She became missing in 1978-79. Caledonia was an obvious **suggestion** for being Tammy to anyone who knows about teenage Jane Does from the late 70s but I don't think it was obvious it was Tammy just because she went missing in the late 70s. Other girls went missing in the late 70s certainly and are not on the missing persons registers.

 

[Roselvr]

I'm sure if you put your ideas on the threads then a discussion can happen about it. Carl and others may well have been intrigued by a late-70s missing teen girl not in the missing persons' registers and may have advocated to law enforcement too since they seem to have good conversations with many people in the authorities.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...urquoise-Necklace-Nov-79-*Tammy-Jo-Alexander*



Is there any evidence Tammy went missing the prior day? She went missing from Florida in the late 70s then turned up dead in New York on 9th November 1979? The only date that is given at the Zabasearch link is She became missing in 1978-79, which doesn't specify an actual day. The body was tanned so that indicates being in the sunnier south not long before she was killed I suppose, but this doesn't let us see a date for going missing. If you look at the Caledonia Jane Doe thread in the Unidentified you'll see they went through many girls who went missing in the late 70s and who were just as good candidates as the Tammy who was presented in the Zabasearch thread. It was not obvious it was Tammy just because of the dates. They needed context such as DNA in order to positively identify Tammy as Caledonia.



There is no actual "missing date", surely? I don't see how it's obvious Caledonia was Tammy just by seeing She became missing in 1978-79. Caledonia was an obvious **suggestion** for being Tammy to anyone who knows about teenage Jane Does from the late 70s but I don't think it was obvious it was Tammy just because she went missing in the late 70s. Other girls went missing in the late 70s certainly and are not on the missing persons registers.

I agree; there wasn't enough info in the Zabasearch ad. I just edited my post.

We submitted Helen Green for Cali after seeing her brothers ad but they couldn't do anything with it until we made contact with her family to get a DNA sample.

Had we (my team) caught the Zabasearch ad; we would have done everything we could to find her family to get DNA to compare.
Back in 2007 there was no record of an MP report; so who knows how far LE would have gone to find her family due to that ad.

 

[four4rock]

...

We submitted... ...they couldn't... ...we made...

Had we (my team)... ...we would... ...we could...

...

Wow. Whew. I'm trying to follow all this stuff about supposed 'unaddressed/ignored leads'. And it all seems quite interesting to say the least. But, help me out here, who is "we" and "they"?

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Wondering how "diner guy" paid for the meal? Cash or...?

I sent these questions to Inv. Schneider, since he is the Investigator on this case. No over abundance of information, but he did respond. Maybe I am just more comfortable with Burgess.

Q-Are you still seeking the identity of diner guy?
A-Yes we are

Q-Did he pay in cash?
A- Unknown as we don’t know who he is and no records from the restaurant – most likely a cash purchase

Q-Do you have an approximate age for diner guy?
A-25-30 yoa

Q- Is there a reason why diner guys info is no longer showing on the FBI site? Is he no longer a suspect? Have you found anyone linked to Tammy that drove a tan station wagon with wooden side panels?
A- I do not know why the image of the man from the diner is not on the FBI website. We are still looking to identify this person to see what connection he had to Tammy Jo, he is not "officially" a suspect since we still can't say 100% that the two people seen in the diner were Tammy Jo and this man. We have not found anyone directly related to Tammy Jo who owned a station wagon.

Q-The pollen that was found on Tammy's clothing that was stated to be from Nevada, is it exclusive to that region? Was that specific pollen found only on her jacket or was it also found on other articles of her clothing?
A-The pollen stated to be from Nevada was Spruce pollen – it is not exclusive to that area. The pollen study shows that it was present on the jacket and pants

 

[four4rock]

...

I agree about diner guy & am curious why he's not on the billboard

My speculation <-- and that's all it is, is that the sketch is just too ambiguous... especially three decades hence. And that seeming discrepancy between the written "black wire rimmed glasses" description and the visual drawing makes me shake my head. The comment earlier about 'noticing' the girl and not the guy drags on my brain too. Presumably, the waitress' comments/recollection leads to the belief that Tammy Jo Alexander and 'diner guy' were there. (And I think that's corroborated by the food/meal, right?) Presumably, the waitress recalled the red jacket(?). OK. But she doesn't recall anything about what the guy was wearing? Hmmm. OK.

How long after November 9th, 1979 was the waitress questioned, I wonder? A day? A week? A month?

And was there nobody else in the Lima Diner? Friday night. Lima, NY. Could be, I suppose.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

My speculation <-- and that's all it is, is that the sketch is just too ambiguous... especially three decades hence. And that seeming discrepancy between the written "black wire rimmed glasses" description and the visual drawing makes me shake my head. The comment earlier about 'noticing' the girl and not the guy drags on my brain too. Presumably, the waitress' comments/recollection leads to the belief that Tammy Jo Alexander and 'diner guy' were there. (And I think that's corroborated by the food/meal, right?) Presumably, the waitress recalled the red jacket(?). OK. But she doesn't recall anything about what the guy was wearing? Hmmm. OK.

How long after November 9th, 1979 was the waitress questioned, I wonder? A day? A week? A month?

And was there nobody else in the Lima Diner? Friday night. Lima, NY. Could be, I suppose.

The waitress was questioned on the same day Tammy's body was found. Nobody dragged their feet on her case, ever. I am sure follow up was done with everybody that was known to be in the Diner that night. Here is what you need to remember, look at Cali's postmortems and then look at Tammy Jo's school pic. The nasal damage is obvious, and the waitress could not even say 100% that the girl int he cornfield was the girl she saw in the diner. That was later confirmed by her stomach contents. Lima Diner was the only place within 100 miles that had served the meal Tammy last ate.

Roselvr and I do just fine, we actually make an amazing team. She often worries that she does not have the free time I do to work on our page, but it is a 2 way street, and when something happens that I can't be there, she takes over and runs it without missing a beat. The same is true of the families we contact. Most families respond well to me because I have a missing sister, so I know their pain. Roselvr is a whiz at finding the families, so together we have accomplished many things.

As for Diner guy, I have never heard anyone say they are not interested in finding out who he is. I disagree, he does not belong on Tammy's billboard. Her face is only there for a few seconds, so the focus needs to stay on her. I do wish they had used the other photo, as I do not feel the school pic gives an adequate impression oh her appearance.

 

[upstatelaura]

I don't know if this info is relevant or not but I thought it was worth a mention. I read about Sedley Alley yesterday. He was a convicted and executioned murderer from Tennessee (at least in 1985) who drove a wood paneled station wagon and wore glasses. His crime was horrific. I can't find anymore info on the car as of yet.