Found Deceased FL - Tammy Alexander, 16, Brooksville, 8 Nov 1979

[Abigail]

Tammy Jo Alexander is said to have run away from home on "several" other occasions (I'm not sure how to quantify "several"... but I'll guess half a dozen or more?). Obviously, each of those other treks ended with her return. Other than the dreadful ending, what were the characteristics of this event? Was it different in any notable way? How long were her other jaunts?... a day?... a week?... a month? Did she run away alone the other (several) times? Did she usually stay "local"? Where did she go the other times? With the exception of the ending, was this 'just another trip' so-to-speak?

Also, was that restaurant at the corner/split of Rt5 & Rt20 open at that time? What was it then?

In March 1979, Tammy and her close female friend hitched rides with truckers all the way out to California. I think Carl said they got to L.A., and turned around and headed back home. The friend's mother paid for their tickets back home, as Tammy's mother said, "Leave her there."

I don't know how many other times Tammy ran away. Her sister said she also ran away several times, but always somewhere locally. The sister said their mother abused prescription drugs and probably had some sort of undiagnosed mental illness.

It bothers me, though, that the mother said, "Leave her there." Was she just joking? Or did she have that little regard for her daughter? Had they fought prior to the running away and the mother wanted to teach her a lesson?

The Lima Diner on Main Street (20/5) is the same one that Tammy and the unknown male went to, and the waitress still works there today.

 

[four4rock]

...


The Lima Diner on Main Street (20/5) is the same one that Tammy and the unknown male went to, and the waitress still works there today.

The eating place at which she was seen was the Lima Diner (now the Lima Family Restaurant). It is on "Main Street" in Lima... which is also both Rt 5 and (at the same time Rt 20). And, yes, the waitress still works there. However, there was another diner-like place quite close to the murder scene... ~1/2 mile or so. It is at the split of Rt5 and Rt20. I'm fairly certain it is closed/vacant as of this writing... I know it was last fall. Recently (at least) it was the "5 & 20 Grille" [4572 Caledonia Avon Rd, Caledonia, NY]. I'm wondering what it was in November 1979?

I bring that up because (to me; in my mind) the Lima Diner does not seem like the most likely place for a trucker to stop - it is/was in the middle of town with limited at best parking for a semi. And it had recently been remodeled/upgraded to a more casual family eatery in 1978 I believe. The "5 & 20 Grille" would have been far more attractive in that regard - IMO. This is one of the elements to make me think that Tammy Jo Alexander was not traveling (at least at that point) by truck... but, rather, with 'diner guy' in a passenger vehicle/truck that knew the area. My speculation(s).

 

[sloane7777]

In March 1979, Tammy and her close female friend hitched rides with truckers all the way out to California. I think Carl said they got to L.A., and turned around and headed back home. The friend's mother paid for their tickets back home, as Tammy's mother said, "Leave her there."

I don't know how many other times Tammy ran away. Her sister said she also ran away several times, but always somewhere locally. The sister said their mother abused prescription drugs and probably had some sort of undiagnosed mental illness.

It bothers me, though, that the mother said, "Leave her there." Was she just joking? Or did she have that little regard for her daughter? Had they fought prior to the running away and the mother wanted to teach her a lesson?

The Lima Diner on Main Street (20/5) is the same one that Tammy and the unknown male went to, and the waitress still works there today.[/QUOTE

ON THAT NOTE: When I ran off a few times as a teen , my mom and G'ma said the same, so I think after a while they try to teach you a lesson (not a safe one) I couldnt do that with mine though, and the world is so different now.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

An experienced runaway with some guy she had just met, perhaps from some pen pal site, or maybe he had just given her a ride, and she was comfortable enough to not have any guard up. Or maybe he just moved so fast that he had the gun point bank in the right eyebrow area of her face without her noticing ? Hmmmmm, very interesting theory.

 

[Alaric]

The diner on 5 and 20A was known as the Ulysses and after that it was called the Olympus.

 

[Alaric]

1-800-CALLFBI (1-800-225-5324)
Please, we need this shared. For so many years, we searched and searched to find her name. We didn't give up then, and we can't give up now!! Somebody out there has the answer we need. Somebody saw her someplace along that journey to NY. Or perhaps they saw her after she arrived there.
It may just be a little thing, and it may not seem important, but the smallest details are often the ones that are needed to link everything together. By working together, we got half the job done. Tammy has her name back, now lets get the person who murdered this beautiful child and threw her away as if she did not matter.
We can do this!! So please, share and ask your friends to share. Let this man know that he is not going to get away with this. We are thousands strong, and somebody is going to whisper the things in our ears, that you're scared of us knowing.
View attachment 69179View attachment 69180View attachment 69181

I was in the eleventh grade at Caledonia-Mumford school when she was found. About 15 years ago I was with a friend that I went to school with and he told me that on the night she was killed another friend of mine and some one he knew were coon hunting on something we called the black cinder road. It's a road used for servicing power lines in a swamp that runs between Lacy and Cox roads. This is located a short distance off Route 5 north of the diner that was on the corner of 20A.
They said that while they were hunting they heard what they thought was fireworks going off but that the sound carried through the air like it came from a gun. Right after they heard this they saw a car go flying down Lacy Road like"a bat out of hell" headed toward Route 5. When I asked the friend who told me this what kind of car it was, he said they thought it was a big car like a Cadillac or a Lincoln due to the relationship between the headlights and the taillights. It came from a turnoff on Lacy that I think was used for tractors next to a farm field owned by the Estes family.
I never thought this meant much until I saw the drawing of the guy who was seen with her at the diner and that he was driving a station wagon which would have a big spatial difference between the lights when viewed at night. I know this isn't case solving info and may not have anything to do with this, but it has always struck me as being curious.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

No that is actually very interesting information. Did your friend call the 1-800-CALLFBI information and tell them about this? The police actually are not sure the station wagon is tied in anyway to Tammy's death. A couple were seen possibly arguing along the road beside a cornfield the night Tammy was killed. However, the cornfield stretch's way up that road, as I am sure you know.......but a big car speeding up a side road after a strange sound like that......he really needs to call this in. I could pass it on to them, but it would be better if your friend will call. Without even knowing it, he may actually have some important information.

 

[Alaric]

No that is actually very interesting information. Did your friend call the 1-800-CALLFBI information and tell them about this? The police actually are not sure the station wagon is tied in anyway to Tammy's death. A couple were seen possibly arguing along the road beside a cornfield the night Tammy was killed. However, the cornfield stretch's way up that road, as I am sure you know.......but a big car speeding up a side road after a strange sound like that......he really needs to call this in. I could pass it on to them, but it would be better if your friend will call. Without even knowing it, he may actually have some important information.

I have no idea where he lives now. I know he lives out of state now but it was 15 years ago that I was told this and have lost touch with him. I know that it was a dark, cold night when this happened and that is all that he witnessed. He had been arrested by the sheriffs for a petty crime that a lot of kids get busted for and that is why he didn't say anything about it at the time because he was upset with them. The whole incident took place in less than a minute. Looking at the picture of the suspect, he doesn't look like anyone that I have ever seen but the area where this incident occurred is located in an out of the way kind of place. Both Lacy and Cox roads are dirt roads with not many houses on them. We use to go back there to have keg parties and shoot our guns, squirrel and coon hunt, and drive our four wheel drive trucks. That probably makes me sound like quite the redneck but that's what we did in our youth in the seventies. If this is related, it would strike me as odd that someone from out of the area would drive back there which always made me doubt if it had anything to do with it. Also the fact that she was shot at the place where she was found makes me wonder too. It's cool if you want to pass this along to them but I don't think there is anymore info than that. The reason I posted it is because a lot of us from the area felt sorry for her and would really like to see this get solved. I always hoped that one day they would identify her and now I would really like to see her get justice. If anyone else has questions about the area at that time I will check in and try to answer them for you.

 

[four4rock]

I agree that (possible) gunshots and bolting car should be brought to investigators attention. Though I'd bet that with it's posting here, they've already seen it(?).

I've been on both those roads and I too find it hard to believe someone unfamiliar with the area would drive in either in the dark for the distance suggested. I was there last fall in the sunlight with GPS and I felt a bit awkward/lost. I would never go at night.

I wonder how absolutely certain authorities are that Tammy Jo Alexander was first shot at the roadside where she was found(?). Could she have been shot first elsewhere... then transported to the 'crime scene'... dragged off the shoulder of the road.. and shot again? Probable? I doubt it. Possible? Sure, why not?

 

[Alaric]

I agree that (possible) gunshots and bolting car should be brought to investigators attention. Though I'd bet that with it's posting here, they've already seen it(?).

I've been on both those roads and I too find it hard to believe someone unfamiliar with the area would drive in either in the dark for the distance suggested. I was there last fall in the sunlight with GPS and I felt a bit awkward/lost. I would never go at night.

I wonder how absolutely certain authorities are that Tammy Jo Alexander was first shot at the roadside where she was found(?). Could she have been shot first elsewhere... then transported to the 'crime scene'... dragged off the shoulder of the road.. and shot again? Probable? I doubt it. Possible? Sure, why not?

Since I was told that story I've thought about it about a thousand times. If she was traveling the thruway with someone and was driving down route 5, perhaps he was trying to find an out of the way place to shoot her. When he got there perhaps she tried to get away and he fired shots at her as she was escaping and was nervous about people hearing them and moved to another location. Then again the spot he dumped her at isn't as remote as where this occurred. It's possible that it wasn't even connected and somebody was just shooting off a gun out there which wouldn't be uncommon but the car taking off so fast is definitely strange. I still think it's very possible that she knew the person she was with or she wouldn't have gone to dinner with him and been driving around in a place that she wasn't from. Something definitely happened between them from the time she was at the Lima Diner and the time she was killed assuming it was the same guy.

 

[CarlK90245]

I wonder how absolutely certain authorities are that Tammy Jo Alexander was first shot at the roadside where she was found(?). Could she have been shot first elsewhere... then transported to the 'crime scene'... dragged off the shoulder of the road.. and shot again? Probable? I doubt it. Possible? Sure, why not?

They are absolutely certain that she was shot at the roadside, and then shot again in the spot in the cornfield where her body was found. There was a blood spot on the shoulder of the road marking the spot where the first shot was fired. The second bullet was found in the dirt, directly below the bullet wound to her back. That would disprove any theory that she was shot in one place, and then her body dumped in another.

And they are also certain that the first shot was fired from very close range, if not point blank. She was not being chased at the moment that she was killed.

 

[Alaric]

Also, the reason this story was brought up is because at the time, which I believe was in the late nineties, there was an article about it in the Times Union or Democrat and Chronicle that went into a lot more detail about it than we had ever heard before including that she was shot where she was found. That's why I didn't think that it had anything to do with it until reading about the station wagon not to long ago. When SSA said that any little bit of info could help I didn't want this to go unknown. It's still possible that it's not connected but if it is maybe it could be of help to them as they piece things together.

 

[Alaric]

four4rock, you sound like you're from the area. If you remember, in 1999 there was another woman shot and left in a field on Wadsworth Road in the same general area that is still unsolved. I looked it up online and her name was Suzanne "Sue" Pitcher. This always struck me as being pretty strange too. She was from Rochester.

 

[Caring4Many]

I actually live around the corner from where Tammy was found. I didn't live in town back then but I know many people they did. One thing that came up in conversation that out of town people don't often realize is that the roads here weren't always "here." If that makes sense? I've looked at these before but can't locate my notes on them at the moment so I thought adding links to the thruway & 390 was probably best. For those that don't travel a lot in the area 5&20 are main roads here if you want to stay off the expressway & thruway. I can take the same strip from the area & go East all the way to Geneva & keep going. One route does split off but I think you get the point. I can do the same going West or South off 5&20 with 39. In the summer we drive past that field when going to Silver Lake. You can take that road & connect to 19 or thruway to get into Buffalo as well. I think back then it was even more of a main route as it is today.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Thruway

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_390

 

[Caring4Many]

This may also be wayyy off the wall but you can take rt 39 to rt 63 to get to the Dansville airport.

 

[four4rock]

I actually live around the corner from where Tammy was found. I didn't live in town back then but I know many people they did. One thing that came up in conversation that out of town people don't often realize is that the roads here weren't always "here." If that makes sense? I've looked at these before but can't locate my notes on them at the moment so I thought adding links to the thruway & 390 was probably best. For those that don't travel a lot in the area 5&20 are main roads here if you want to stay off the expressway & thruway. I can take the same strip from the area & go East all the way to Geneva & keep going. One route does split off but I think you get the point. I can do the same going West or South off 5&20 with 39. In the summer we drive past that field when going to Silver Lake. You can take that road & connect to 19 or thruway to get into Buffalo as well. I think back then it was even more of a main route as it is today.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Thruway

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_390

Exactly, 390 was not yet completed in that area. "Official" reports indicate that it is believed that Tammy Jo Alexander had been travelling on the NYS Thruway (90) - based on the 'finding' that the key chains were purchased from a vending machine on the thruway. Further, "official" reports indicate that restaurants had been checked "back to" Hopewell/Ontario... certainly suggesting a likely route of Rt20. That kinda implies someone might be thinking that she was on the thruway WB and exited... at, maybe exit 42 or 43. Or, if the Hopewell location is erroneous, she could've exited at exit 45 or 46 (I think that would've put her on Rt15 at that time?). These are by far the most logical NYS thruway exits to find ones way to Lima/Avon/Caledonia(/Geneseo/Dansville) area. Particularly since 390 was not yet there, all of these are "rural" exits. Not the kind one passing through just uses to find a place to eat... since there are - and were at the time - plenty of full service travel plazas in the area. However, if one was familiar with the area (central NY/Finger Lakes/Geneseo, for example) it would make perfect sense.

Regarding the certainty that the initial forehead wound was inflicted at the known crime scene... I certainly cannot/will not challenge any definitive findings of whatever an expert investigation has concluded. However, I'd be interested to know how - given the so-called heavy rain washed conditions - such certainty can be found. Maybe the conclusion about the first shot was based on more than just a "blood spot at the side of the road"?

I thought about Dansville Airport, too. I've flown in there as Gen Av. They had a nice little diner there in the 70's/80's. But did they have night time ops there back then?

Without intention of getting too graphic, what occurs when being shot point blank well above ones center of gravity with a .38? How would one likely fall?... how far? Anyone here have data on something like this?

 

[Caring4Many]

Exactly, 390 was not yet completed in that area. "Official" reports indicate that it is believed that Tammy Jo Alexander had been travelling on the NYS Thruway (90) - based on the 'finding' that the key chains were purchased from a vending machine on the thruway. Further, "official" reports indicate that restaurants had been checked "back to" Hopewell/Ontario... certainly suggesting a likely route of Rt20. That kinda implies someone might be thinking that she was on the thruway WB and exited... at, maybe exit 42 or 43. Or, if the Hopewell location is erroneous, she could've exited at exit 45 or 46 (I think that would've put her on Rt15 at that time?). These are by far the most logical NYS thruway exits to find ones way to Lima/Avon/Caledonia(/Geneseo/Dansville) area. Particularly since 390 was not yet there, all of these are "rural" exits. Not the kind one passing through just uses to find a place to eat... since there are - and were at the time - plenty of full service travel plazas in the area. However, if one was familiar with the area (central NY/Finger Lakes/Geneseo, for example) it would make perfect sense.

Regarding the certainty that the initial forehead wound was inflicted at the known crime scene... I certainly cannot/will not challenge any definitive findings of whatever an expert investigation has concluded. However, I'd be interested to know how - given the so-called heavy rain washed conditions - such certainty can be found. Maybe the conclusion about the first shot was based on more than just a "blood spot at the side of the road"?

I thought about Dansville Airport, too. I've flown in there as Gen Av. They had a nice little diner there in the 70's/80's. But did they have night time ops there back then?

Without intention of getting too graphic, what occurs when being shot point blank well above ones center of gravity with a .38? How would one likely fall?... how far? Anyone here have data on something like this?

Honestly I don't see exit 46 as a logical option for one traveling-unless the person she was with was familiar with that area & knew that restaurant. Rt 15 comes into the middle of Avon and Lima is back further East about 15 mins or so. It does make me wonder if the person she was with wasn't new to the area. As someone who has driven back & forth to FL a few times from this area, if you don't take 390, the road Tammy was found on would make sense as a route to bring into town or out of town. Who is to say that they weren't around the area for a few days? Just typing as I think I guess.

 

[Caring4Many]

Local newspaper, Livingston County News, just posted about the case on FB. https://www.facebook.com/LivingstonCountyNews/posts/1011414285553483

"Livingston County Sheriff's Office and FBI have scheduled a joint press conference for this afternoon to provide "updates from the past few weeks" concerning the Tammy Jo Alexander case and future initiatives. Tammy Jo is the girl recently identified and previously known only as "Jane Doe," who was found shot to death in a Caledonia cornfield in 1979. The LCN will be staffing the press conference and providing updates."

 

[Caring4Many]

Now seeing this article from D&C on Twitter-
http://www.democratandchronicle.com...mmy-jo-livingston-alexander-missing/23542909/

FBI using billboards to get info on Tammy Jo Alexander slaying

The case of Tammy Jo Alexander — the Florida girl who went missing in 1979 and was found fatally shot in Livingston County — is now getting national attention.

The FBI began displaying billboards Friday in 13 Eastern states, including New York, with Alexander's photo and requests for any information about her 1979 slaying.

Provided photo

Tammy Jo Alexander.

Alexander was not identified until last month. She was found in a Caledonia cornfield in November 1979, and remained unidentified — called "Cali" by police — until a DNA match with a sister confirmed her identity.

Now, the Livingston County Sheriff's Office and the FBI are hoping to jog memories of anyone who may remember Alexander, and have answers as to how she ended up in New York.

The news about her identification "prompted some leads, but we want as much information as we can get moving forward," said Livingston County Sheriff Tom Dougherty.

A Livingston County Sheriff's investigator recently traveled to Florida for the investigation.

The FBI has an arrangement with Clear Channel and Lamar Advertising for large community outreaches like this, said FBI spokeswoman Maureen Dempsey.

Alexander is also featured on the FBI's website, fbi.gov. Her information is posted under the Most Wanted section of the site, in the Seeking Information heading.

The FBI and Dougherty are scheduled to announce the campaign at a press conference in Livingston County at 2:30 p.m. today.

GCRAIG@DemocratandChronicle.com

Twitter.com/gcraig1

 

[annegrete]

To put Tammy's passing into context with the rest of the world in 1979- exactly what time- Tehran time- did the US embassay get stormed? And around what time, Eastern Standard or Maritime, did the US start to learn of it? Was it a case of, "We interrupt our normal broadcast to bring you this special report..."?

I'm wondering if people who could have provided information at the time of her passing put her shooting to the back of their mind to focus on the Iranian hostage crisis. (I was 3.5 months when Tammy died.) I know eventually Nightline came about so we could have nightly updates on the hostages.