Identified! FL - Tampa, WhtFem UP61522, 11-15, most likely 12-14 years old, Jan'91 - Name withheld

[Bit of hope]

Is she on Doe Network?

No she isn't. @victoriarobinson642 you said you submitted a possible match to the Doe Network, did you also filled in the form to add this Jane Doe?

 

[victoriarobinson642]

No she isn't. @victoriarobinson642 you said you submitted a possible match to the Doe Network, did you also filled in the form to add this Jane Doe?

I believe so. I don't know that I heard back though.

 

[Bit of hope]

Kind of frustrated by the lack of information. How old are the remains approx? Could it be Judy Lynn Davis, missing since 1975, from Jacksonville, Florida, 15 yrs old. Judy Lynn Davis – The Charley Project

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

How old are the remains approx?

There's no information about estimated time of death or PMI on Tampa Girl's NamUs.

 

[Bit of hope]

There's no information about estimated time of death or PMI on Tampa Girl's NamUs.

I know Mrs. B...the question is more like "I wish we knew". Sorry for the confusion.....

 

[Bit of hope]

Or this girl....
Tinze “Lucinda” Huels, age 17, went missing from Tampa, Florida on October 27, 1984.

Tinze Lucinda Huels
Tinze Lucinda Huels – The Charley Project

She seems to have a gap between her front teeth. We don't know this about Jane Doe.

Locations (Namus map is directing to the University campus, but is probably a random/an approx. location, but I decided to close it in):

خرائط ‪Google

‬‏‏[URL="https://crimeblogger1983.blogspot.com/2017/08/disappeared-tinze-lucinda-huels.html"]Disappeared: Tinze Lucinda Huels - CrimeBlogger1983 [/URL]

 

[Melt71]

Is anyone with a Namus account able to post the publicly viewable ruleout list?

 

[Keane]

Is anyone with a Namus account able to post the publicly viewable ruleout list?

Gail Joyner is still the only ruleout.

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

I know Mrs. B...the question is more like "I wish we knew". Sorry for the confusion.....

*note to self: No interwebs before coffee*
oof, I feel dumb, Boh Thank you for being gracious about it!

Yes, I search several times a week for updates on TG, but she just seems to be forgotten. She could be a bunch of missing girls, though; there's no shortage of missing girls in Florida who fit the scarce information available for the Jane Doe, sadly enough.

 

[PayrollNerd]

Or this girl....
Tinze “Lucinda” Huels, age 17, went missing from Tampa, Florida on October 27, 1984.

Tinze Lucinda Huels
Tinze Lucinda Huels – The Charley Project

She seems to have a gap between her front teeth. We don't know this about Jane Doe.

Locations (Namus map is directing to the University campus, but is probably a random/an approx. location, but I decided to close it in):

خرائط ‪Google

‬‏‏Disappeared: Tinze Lucinda Huels - CrimeBlogger1983

What is interesting in this lady’s timeline is that she left home about 9:00pm. Then met up with friends at 9:30pm until the wee hours of the morning. At 9:00am the next morning, her car had clean, folded clothes in it. What laundry mat could she have gone to? Is there or was there a 24 hour one? Makes me go hmmm.....

 

[Melt71]

Scrolling back through the pages of posts I can see the following names mentioned but not sure which have been submitted (other than Deb):

Lurline Bergeron missing West Palm Beach 1991 ('may' have been pregnant but no confirmation) Lurline Michelle Bergeron – The Charley Project www.doenetwork.org/cases/1163dffl.html
Jennifer Perry misisng 1993 Jennifer Rae Perry – The Charley Project
www.doenetwork.org/cases/848dffl.html
Andrea D’Anne Durham missing 1990 Andrea D’Anne Durham – The Charley Project
www.doenetwork.org/cases/132dffl.html
Andrea Gail Parsons - missing 1993 Andrea Gail Parsons – The Charley Project
www.doenetwork.org/cases/765dffl.html
Debora Sue Lowe - submitted - Debora Sue Lowe – The Charley Project
www.doenetwork.org/cases/1673dffl.html
Tavia Bailey Missing since 1985 Tavia Elizabeth Bailey – The Charley Project
www.doenetwork.org/cases/748dffl.html
Tinze Lucinda Huels missing since 1984 Tinze Lucinda Huels – The Charley Project
www.doenetwork.org/cases/11dffl.html
Judy Lynn Davis missing since 1972 Judy Lynn Davis – The Charley Project
[URL='http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3711dffl.html']www.doenetwork.org/cases/3711dffl.html[/URL]

Obviously it's not a great time to be bothering LE in Florida with all the COVID horribleness, but I wonder if we should put this list forward to DoeNetwork? Does anyone else have any other additions they would like to add? I'm happy to put together something in document form outlining the reasons why each may be a match.

 

[Bit of hope]

Scrolling back through the pages of posts I can see the following names mentioned but not sure which have been submitted (other than Deb):

Lurline Bergeron missing West Palm Beach 1991 ('may' have been pregnant but no confirmation) Lurline Michelle Bergeron – The Charley Project www.doenetwork.org/cases/1163dffl.html
Jennifer Perry misisng 1993 Jennifer Rae Perry – The Charley Project
www.doenetwork.org/cases/848dffl.html
Andrea D’Anne Durham missing 1990 Andrea D’Anne Durham – The Charley Project
www.doenetwork.org/cases/132dffl.html
Andrea Gail Parsons - missing 1993 Andrea Gail Parsons – The Charley Project
www.doenetwork.org/cases/765dffl.html
Debora Sue Lowe - submitted - Debora Sue Lowe – The Charley Project
www.doenetwork.org/cases/1673dffl.html
Tavia Bailey Missing since 1985 Tavia Elizabeth Bailey – The Charley Project
www.doenetwork.org/cases/748dffl.html
Tinze Lucinda Huels missing since 1984 Tinze Lucinda Huels – The Charley Project
www.doenetwork.org/cases/11dffl.html
Judy Lynn Davis missing since 1972 Judy Lynn Davis – The Charley Project
www.doenetwork.org/cases/3711dffl.html

Obviously it's not a great time to be bothering LE in Florida with all the COVID horribleness, but I wonder if we should put this list forward to DoeNetwork? Does anyone else have any other additions they would like to add? I'm happy to put together something in document form outlining the reasons why each may be a match.

Thank you for the summery. If we submit some of them I would prefer to do this to Namus and the investigation agency's, not to the Doe Network. (she isn't on there as far as I know) The reason I post potential matches here is to discuss the possibility with other WS members if there could be a match. Beside likes there is not much discussion sadly. There is enough intelligence and competence on here to judge if a missing person could be a possible match. Us doing the work of the DNA Doe network Possible Match Panel. My personal opinion is that we don't have enough information about Jane Doe yet to narrow things down enough. I would never send in a list.

I like to share this with you. I can be helpful deciding about possible matches.

Match Making Tips

"You start by taking the physical descriptors (age, height etc, date of disappearance vs Estimated Date of Death) and look for everything that will DISPROVE the Jane or John is so and so.

Once you can not establish that it is not them, then start to work on the other side, look at the distances, known items of clothing, matching scars, tattoos, etc. The more you find on the plus side, the higher is your probability of a match.

Low is nothing positive, but nothing negative, Medium means things like distance and clothing is close, High is the markers that could be distinctive, things like one leg shorter than the other, unique dental work or tooth structure, etc.

Once you have that, then look at the physical pictures but be careful if you are comparing it to a reconstruction because things like hair line nose, lips, ears, etc may not be accurate.

On a comparison of the photos, look at the ears (almost as good as a fingerprint) jaw line, eye sockets, mouth line, arch of eyebrows, general placement of the eyes to the nose to the upper lip. Most people will look at the general face and say yes, that is him. To get better results, break the face up and examine the pieces."

In this particular case there isn't a PMI, no hair/eye color, no height/weight, there is a brought recon, a probable default finding place, no clothes description (only a scull was found) or other relevant information. Jane Doe could be every missing girl in Tampa, Florida and beyond in the last decades. There is more work to do for LE to get everything they can get from the skull....DNA, PMI f.i.

My suggestions of MP's are based on a combination of the story, the age, the location and some kind of resemblance with the recon. I just want so much for her to be identified, mostly because she was so young, so I try to come up with MP's, but to be honest I don't feel confident enough right now to submit any of them.

 

[Melt71]

Thanks BoH. I guess I always (wrongly) assumed people did research more than just looking at a recon before they posted a potential match. I have worked in passport fraud and am v. familiar with the difficulties in comparing faces. And we used everything from old-style manual tricks (like turning photos upside down and only comparing single components) through to more sophisticated layover and aging programs. Even then it was sometimes hard. Because of that I would never rely on a recon for a definitive ID.

 

[Bit of hope]

What is interesting in this lady’s timeline is that she left home about 9:00pm. Then met up with friends at 9:30pm until the wee hours of the morning. At 9:00am the next morning, her car had clean, folded clothes in it. What laundry mat could she have gone to? Is there or was there a 24 hour one? Makes me go hmmm.....

She usually washed clothes at a laundry mat on 40th and Bush blvd.,
My Mother's Story. - Writing.Com
The Char Pez Lounge (mentioned like that in the essay) is also on the 40th and Bush blvd.,

Maybe it was this one.

BUSCH LAUNDROMAT
4810 Busch Blvd,
Tampa
FL 3617 (Suite N-Q)

Phone: 813-280-9975
Hours: 5 AM - Midnight / 7 days a week

BTW its the
Char-Pal Lounge
3711 E Busch Blvd (40th St.)
Tampa, FL 33612
USA

So she could have hopped over during the evening.

 

[Bit of hope]

And some good advice from "good old" member CarlK.

I usually just introduce myself, and say something like "I am calling in regards to your unidentified decedent case - a [male/female] found on [date] in [location]. I've been looking at [missing person name], and it looks to me like there are enough similarities that [he/she] might be worth looking into."

Then cite a few reasons why you think your MP is a good match (e.g., height, age, timeline, etc.)

Also, be sure to have all of your supporting info in front of you (e.g., Charley or DoeNet pages, case numbers, dates, etc.).

I put all of the relevant info and links on an Excel Spreadsheet before I call. You don't want to be scrambling for info if they ask you a question. Frequently, they ask if you know what identifiers are available for the MP, so it is a good idea to research that info prior to calling (DoeNet often has that info in their MP casefiles, but Charley does not).

Often they'll ask "what agency are you with". I usually reply that I am a "Private Citizen Volunteer Researcher"

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

Looks like Hernando county is taking a second look on a bunch of cold cases involving UIDs from their and surrounding counties. Two of the Weeki Wachee UIDs were entered into NamUs about the same time as Tampa Girl and made public at about the same time, as well. Could be a coincidence of course, but since LE there has involved forensic genealogy, there might be something bigger going on, too.

 

[PayrollNerd]

Looks like Hernando county is taking a second look on a bunch of cold cases involving UIDs from their and surrounding counties. Two of the Weeki Wachee UIDs were entered into NamUs about the same time as Tampa Girl and made public at about the same time, as well. Could be a coincidence of course, but since LE there has involved forensic genealogy, there might be something bigger going on, too.

Perhaps tightening up the list of rule outs for a group of young ladies. It would make sense to me that you’d do a comparison in A group of similar UIDs, rather than one at a time. That way if there is a common theme, piece of evidence, type of injury, I would think you’d be more likely to pick up on it. JMO

 

[PayrollNerd]

I'm up here on the USF campus for my treatment today. I've looked back over the different locations we've all been mentioning here. In my gut, I just don't think Tampa Girl was found on this campus. The Hillsborough River is nearby with some park access points and a lot of green space. It is possible the partial remains could have been found in this area. Flooding is a huge issue in Tampa and always has been. JMO

When I had my transplant in 2017, we stayed in an apartment complex very close to the USF campus, the laundry mat mentioned, and the lounge mentioned. I recall the apartment complex was a gated community. When you left, within a few blocks was a rough area, rundown buildings, definitely a low tax base area. I can't imagine it was much different in the mid-1990s.

 

[Bit of hope]

I'm up here on the USF campus for my treatment today. I've looked back over the different locations we've all been mentioning here. In my gut, I just don't think Tampa Girl was found on this campus. The Hillsborough River is nearby with some park access points and a lot of green space. It is possible the partial remains could have been found in this area. Flooding is a huge issue in Tampa and always has been. JMO

When I had my transplant in 2017, we stayed in an apartment complex very close to the USF campus, the laundry mat mentioned, and the lounge mentioned. I recall the apartment complex was a gated community. When you left, within a few blocks was a rough area, rundown buildings, definitely a low tax base area. I can't imagine it was much different in the mid-1990s.

Thank you @PayrollNerd for the info. Hope you are feeling not to bad. Knowing this I think Tenzel Huels makes sense, location wise.

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

I'm up here on the USF campus for my treatment today. I've looked back over the different locations we've all been mentioning here. In my gut, I just don't think Tampa Girl was found on this campus. The Hillsborough River is nearby with some park access points and a lot of green space. It is possible the partial remains could have been found in this area. Flooding is a huge issue in Tampa and always has been. JMO

When I had my transplant in 2017, we stayed in an apartment complex very close to the USF campus, the laundry mat mentioned, and the lounge mentioned. I recall the apartment complex was a gated community. When you left, within a few blocks was a rough area, rundown buildings, definitely a low tax base area. I can't imagine it was much different in the mid-1990s.

I've registered from several other threads here that the locations NamUs operates with, are often erroneous. Since so little is mentioned about her and USF is pinpointed as her location, I believe that they have simply used the location where her remains has been stored.

Btw, it has crossed my mind that perhaps LE don't have her original file anymore, and have lost the information of her original date and place of discovery.