FL - Terrorist Discussion/49 Killed in Orlando at Nightclub Pulse

[K_Z]

Loretta Lynch and President Obama have both called him a terrorist and said this was an act of terror. Who are the authorities denying it and instead saying he was simply a mentally disturbed person?

I am greatly concerned that our potus compared the Orlando massacre to the Colorado movie theater rampage, and the Sandyhook massacre. They are all equally horrific in their murderous outcomes, but not at all comparable, IMO. They each had different and unique motivations and opportunities that set the stage for the horror to proceed. I am concerned, and dismayed, that our potus compares these as "the same".

 

[bluesneakers]

The quote I used said "authorities". I take that to mean an unidentified government employee.

The quote is actually this:

Authorities have said preliminary evidence indicates Mateen was a mentally disturbed individual who acted alone and without direction from outside networks, despite a pledge of loyalty he made to the Islamic State militant group in one of his phone calls. Lynch told ABC's "This Week" program that the transcripts being released on Monday would not include such a pledge

JMO but it doesn't say they believe he was "simply a mentally disturbed person and not a terrorist."

And if you are correct and some unidentified government employee said he was simply mentally disturbed and not a terrorist I don't think it makes much difference when the President and AG have both said otherwise.

 

[K_Z]

I kind of wish he could just disappear like a sad loser and not be looked up to by others.

I am so angry that the U.S. news media jumped on the "worse gun violence massacre in U.S. history" theme, and had all these swoopy sound effects and bold graphics in their lead ins. they MADE MONEY on that phrase. They actively promoted it-- worse than the terrorist organizations did, IMO. Sickening.

 

[K_Z]

I feel the same way. I want all of it released so everyone knows as much as possible, but then yes, what if it somehow bolsters his status among them and they use him as an example or use his exact words to recruit others?

I want all of it released, too. Sunshine is the best disinfectant, IMO. And yes, these organizations will "use" it in recruitment-- but they are using him and his words and actions now anyway.

Americans deserve the truth, IMO. We can handle it. We need to hear it. IMO.

 

[RANCH]

The quote is actually this:



JMO but it doesn't say they believe he was "simply a mentally disturbed person and not a terrorist."

And if you are correct and some unidentified government employee said he was simply mentally disturbed and not a terrorist I don't think it makes much difference when the President and AG have both said otherwise.

I was accurate in saying the quote was by "authorities". I made it clear that I feel the government is minimizing the terrorist angle.

<modsnip>

 

[RANCH]

I want all of it released, too. Sunshine is the best disinfectant, IMO. And yes, these organizations will "use" it in recruitment-- but they are using him and his words and actions now anyway.

Americans deserve the truth, IMO. We can handle it. We need to hear it. IMO.

I agree. I think that withholding information in the age of social media only leads to rampant speculation and conspiracy theory's.

Just put it out there. JMO

 

[K_Z]

What do we do about American's who are born in the U.S.A. and grow up to be terrorists? How do we stop them?

This ^^ is one of Tricia's posed questions for discussion in post #1.

My suggestion is that a declaration of war would provide the necessary legal justification for appropriate surveillance, and inter-agency coordination, to apprehend those with dangerous affirmative behaviors (not just "thought crimes"). This is what was sorely missing in the case of OM in Orlando, with all of the reports about his behavior, and his interaction with law enforcement. A declaration of war would render sedition, for example, easier to charge and convict, as would treason.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason

 

[RANCH]

This ^^ is one of Tricia's posed questions for discussion in post #1.

My suggestion is that a declaration of war would provide the necessary legal justification for appropriate surveillance, and inter-agency coordination, to apprehend those with dangerous affirmative behaviors (not just "thought crimes"). This is what was sorely missing in the case of OM in Orlando, with all of the reports about his behavior, and his interaction with law enforcement. A declaration of war would render sedition, for example, easier to charge and convict, as would treason.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason

I like the idea of a declaration of war. Lets get serious about stopping these terrorist's.

 

[K_Z]

IMO, we also need to aggressively prosecute those that knew directly about terrorist plans, and failed to alert authorities. I'm thinking specifically about family members and close friends, such as the mother of the San Bernadino male terrorist. And the wife of OM. And probably the father of OM. (Is OM's father even a citizen now?)

 

[Everyday Grace]

IMO, we also need to aggressively prosecute those that knew directly about terrorist plans, and failed to alert authorities. I'm thinking specifically about family members and close friends, such as the mother of the San Bernadino male terrorist. And the wife of OM. And probably the father of OM. (Is OM's father even a citizen now?)

Mr. Mateen’s father, Seddique Mir Mateen, became a naturalized American citizen on Nov. 17, 1989. The family was then living in Westbury, N.Y.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/06/18/us/omar-mateen-documents.html

 

[SweetT]

IMO, we also need to aggressively prosecute those that knew directly about terrorist plans, and failed to alert authorities. I'm thinking specifically about family members and close friends, such as the mother of the San Bernadino male terrorist. And the wife of OM. And probably the father of OM. (Is OM's father even a citizen now?)

I agree, but it's not going to happen in this administration I'm afraid. It's like our POTUS thinks ignoring the situation is going to help something. Why is DHS having their hands tied and cant use words like Jihad and Sharia? I mean seriously? That is not going to help anything. Being PC is not going to save our lives, or our fellow Americans lives, and isn't that truly what our POTUS job is..to ensure our safety?

 

[Sillybilly]

I agree, but it's not going to happen in this administration I'm afraid. It's like our POTUS thinks ignoring the situation is going to help something. Why is DHS having their hands tied and cant use words like Jihad and Sharia? I mean seriously? That is not going to help anything. Being PC is not going to save our lives, or our fellow Americans lives, and isn't that truly what our POTUS job is..to ensure our safety?

Is it possible the administration is downplaying in order not to feed into the terrorist organizations' wish to keep westerners living in fear?

 

[SweetT]

Is it possible the administration is downplaying in order not to feed into the terrorist organizations' wish to keep westerners living in fear?

No not in my opinion. You don't go and increase the flow a day after shootings IMO if your worried about keeping people calm etc. Also DHS wouldn't be the Public, so no reason to take those words away from them IMO. We can't stop terrorists if we won't admit who they are and what they are. JMO
I know one way to vet these people is that we should have them shake hands with a woman upon entering the US, if they wont do it, they don't need to enter. I'm sure I can think of other things.

 

[SweetT]

On the previous thread Cady asked me if there were a lot of Muslims in Montana, not a lot and most of them are in the Missoula area. But I did used to date a guy from Syria who immigrated to the US.

 

[RANCH]

Is it possible the administration is downplaying in order not to feed into the terrorist organizations' wish to keep westerners living in fear?

Maybe. I hope that the administration isn't giving the public a false understanding of what kind of danger we are facing.

Americans need to know who their enemies are. JMO

 

[RANCH]

On the previous thread Cady asked me if there were a lot of Muslims in Montana, not a lot and most of them are in the Missoula area. But I did used to date a guy from Syria who immigrated to the US.

A few years ago I had a neighbor who was Palestinian. Great guy. I used to hang out with him.

 

[bluesneakers]

Is it possible the administration is downplaying in order not to feed into the terrorist organizations' wish to keep westerners living in fear?

I don't think downplaying so much as staying who and what we are. We don't need to be coddled nor do we need to give in to hate and fear. Doing that, imo, gets to exactly what you said - not granting their wish to see us trembling in fear.

 

[sonjay]

I don't think downplaying so much as staying who and what we are. We don't need to be coddled nor do we need to give in to hate and fear. Doing that, imo, gets to exactly what you said - not granting their wish to see us trembling in fear.

I don't think that knowing who and what our enemies are would have us trembling in fear. It think it will make most of us angry.

Remember the quote, possibly apocryphal, attributed to Admiral Yamamoto after the bombing of Pearl Harbor:

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

The American public and the American government need to awaken and be filled with a terrible resolve to eradicate this enemy.

Minimizing it as merely an act of hate by a mentally ill person who wasn't loved sufficiently will accomplish nothing except to keep us vulnerable to future Islamic terrorist attacks.

Trembling in fear isn't who we are. It's never been who we are.

 

[CARIIS]

Is it possible the administration is downplaying in order not to feed into the terrorist organizations' wish to keep westerners living in fear?

The event is in its first week.The administration is doing what a level headed, inteligent person does. Wait, lets the "data" tell the story and them make decisions.

Some want more F-16 flying. When he gets the facts, he will proceed , and then it all will fall apart in congress, who really should be renamed Hose of reperesentives elematary school, and senate kindergarden. They are like a bunch of five year olds .

 

[K_Z]

Sonjay, you are exactly right about Yamamoto-- he was very reluctant and fully expected Japan to lose the war. FDR was also very reticent to speak in a hawkish manner or get into the war-- yet he came out very strongly immediately after the Pearl Harbor attack, and strongly led the U.S. to victory. I was just at the PH memorial again 2-3 weeks ago, and it's always good to revisit our history. It was almost 4 years from the PH attack until we decisively ended the war with the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

September 11 was our generation's Pearl Harbor. It should have been a gigantic wake up call. Yet here we are-- 16 years later, and mired in a far worse situation with african and middle east islamic terrorism than in 2001.

To change the hearts and minds of the citizens of Japan and Germany after WWII, we had to essentially occupy their countries with large numbers of troops for more than 50 years. That is what changed the thinking and the social climate in those countries, IMO-- Americans on their soil monitoring them, babysitting them, for more than half a century.

We need to decisively solve the problem of radical islamic terrorism in Africa and the middle east with military force, IMO. And sadly and unpalatably, we need large amounts of American and coalition forces with permanent bases to occupy their lands for at least 100 years to monitor and guide the reformation of their societies. I hate that that is the answer to peace in that part of the world, but there it is. IMO, of course-- but I'm admittedly quite biased that military force and presence is to be used to protect innocent American lives at home and abroad.

This is the oath of office that all military officers take (and our POTUS, as well):

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office

Terrorists are enemies of the U.S., whether foreign or domestic.