FL - Tracy Ocasio, 27, Orlando/Ocoee, 27 May 2009 - #1

[chesterp]

I am not familiar with the area, except for where we searched, and I was amazed at so many abandoned houses in the areas we searched. We did search a cemetary near an area where there was an abandoned greenhouse.

The area does have a major drug problem. At the main Command Center, at Vingetti Park?, the drug trafficking was astonishing in the evenings. One of our members stayed late into the night and was threatened by someone who was wasted. The statement was "GET OUT OF HERE NOW" We received a lot of tips who said they saw JH coming out of the woods in the past and we searched these areas. I could not believe how many areas are dumping grounds.

The area where the car accident was staged in Feb. we searched many acres around there. As for around the house, when Tracy's car was found and the time she went missing,and the last cell ping..... I do not think JH expected the car to be reported to LE as quick as it was and thought he would have a chance to go back and move it. There were only a window of hours from the time she went missing and the car was found.

We did serached around Hopper Farms? extensively, and around Apoka Lake, due to tips. The helicopters were flying around alot the whole time we were searching.

All of this reminds me of the Caylee case, as much as we searched, TES-LE-and locals, she was not found until she was supposed to be found. My heart thinks the same about Tracy.....She will be found when she is supposed to be found and who knows what else will be found. Tips are coming from a lot of people.... One night when I returned to the hotel, the desk clerk made a comment I should have come in 2 minutes earlier....a regular homeless man came in to use the computer in the lobby and pulled up Tracy's picture....I did walk out in the parking lot to look for him, but he had already taken off on his bike, so this is another sign people in the area know more than they want to share for some reason. I think FEAR is a huge issue with so many people in the area who know JH directly or indirectly.

A man who collects cans, kept circling one of our teams as we were out in a field, when one of the members walked out by herself....he told us he had seen JH coming out of the woods in the past...and he did come forward and this was a legit tip which was checked out. This was by Apopka Lake?....

I know of a few TES members who will be joining locals to continue the search. Locals who knows JH, took a member out in their boats at dusk and the alligators in this spot was frightening. These locals told us they never go out in a lake by themselves due to the huge amount of gators in these lakes. A lake we did search around.....gators scared the heck out of me...

Our team did run into alot of homeless who made it clear we were not welcomed. I do believe once a tipster feels safe....he will come forward with a tip about where she is....or where to begin the next search. LE is determined to find her and keep JH in jail for the rest of his life. A comment was made about making sure he is in the general population....

JH is a horrible person and the fear in so many who know him will subside in time once they feel safe he will not be released to cause more harm. It has been said he is a very charming person and could con his way into any situation.... He lived in LA for awhile and I know LE there will be checking into cold cases. This will be done in every place he lived LE thinks he left his mark every where he took up residence.

THIS IS ONE SICK SOB.

 

[FaceValue]

Welcome, FaceValue.

Assuming there's an all-too-appropriate connection to PC...e.g. "In the air tonight", eh?

How do you mean, Bond?

I am not familiar with the area, except for where we searched, and I was amazed at so many abandoned houses in the areas we searched. We did search a cemetary near an area where there was an abandoned greenhouse.

The area does have a major drug problem. At the main Command Center, at Vingetti Park?, the drug trafficking was astonishing in the evenings. One of our members stayed late into the night and was threatened by someone who was wasted. The statement was "GET OUT OF HERE NOW" We received a lot of tips who said they saw JH coming out of the woods in the past and we searched these areas. I could not believe how many areas are dumping grounds.

The area where the car accident was staged in Feb. we searched many acres around there. As for around the house, when Tracy's car was found and the time she went missing,and the last cell ping..... I do not think JH expected the car to be reported to LE as quick as it was and thought he would have a chance to go back and move it. There were only a window of hours from the time she went missing and the car was found.

We did serached around Hopper Farms? extensively, and around Apoka Lake, due to tips. The helicopters were flying around alot the whole time we were searching.......

Chester, it sounds like you guys did quite a bit of searching near Magnolia Park and the surrounding areas. You're absolutely right about the drugs problems, but I was not aware of the abundance of homeless, unless you're speaking of an area that I'm not thinking of.

You make an interesting statement with the homeless and here's a thought - I would be curious to monitor the hotspots for homeless camp grounds in the area. If there is a body decomposing nearby, they're not going to continue to stay in that area with the smell. I'm sure LE knows the heavy areas for that and it would be fairly simple to monitor at night - again, birds of a feather flock together.

And here's another thought - it's a reasonable distance from JVH's home to the Clarcona outpost on the West Orange Trail. If you go up Apopka-Vineland and cross over Clarcona-Ocoee, about a 1/4 mile up the road is a parking area where you can pick up the trail. There's a ton of woods that I've been in before with my dogs off the leash, and while they're not overgrown with brush for the most part, they are still fairly dense, so it would be easy to manuever but still hide a body. Also, there is a small but murky pond back off the road there that would be easy to access by foot and not likely to be passed often by the public - it's a horse trail back there, but it's not something you would often stop to get the animals a drink at. It's a little far off the road to take a body, but he looks pretty strong and she was not that heavy, so he could have carried her with a fair amount of ease. Dropping her in that lake, no one would ever hear the noise....

On the opposite side of Apopka-Vineland from that parking lot is an area where the homeless set up camp....the woods are thinner, but dense and it's not terribly easy to see inside. When driving by, I often get a glimpse of a tent, etc. in the area and my FIL has told me that he sees homeless showering in the Clarcona Horsemen's Club Park restrooms regularly.

Amy, can you direct me to the album you're referring to of the Ingram area that you spoke of above. Good news on that front is if she is in there and not found, the public schools are getting ready to clear that area in the fairly new future to build a school....and there's a good chance they'll find what we're looking for. If I remember correctly, those woods are denser and high with brush, so they may be hard to get into - but that means that if TO, OG, or JK are in there, they wouldn't be that far in.

Here's my last thought before I sign off to work - TO drove a bright yellow car. That vehicle would stand out anywhere like a sore thumb. It's not likely JVH did a lot of joy riding, and probably went somewhere to take care of business that was not easily visable, because someone would notice right away. Also, he clearly wasn't it the greatest mental state when he dumped the car on someone's property so close to his house...again, a bright yellow vehicle is going to be noticed way quicker than anything else.

I believe LE has enough to charge him, but not with the murder until they have a body and a motive. Just like in the Kaylee Anthony case, LE knew what happened and who was responsible from the beginning, but without a body, it's hear say. With a body, she can get life. I'm sure LE is working hard to find TO not only to bring her home, but to make sure this guy doesn't get on the street again. The fact that they haven't mentioned who the calls were going to and who JVH was talking to in the time around these events says to me they have some good leads to track him. Plus, very little has been announced recently.

I've thought about the track from the Tap Room to JVH's house, since clearly TO never made it to JVH's home. However, I can't really think of any wooded area that wouldn't be clearly visable from the road, and again, a yellow car would stick out like a sore thumb. Those areas that they would have travelled are also heavily trafficked by LE (Hiawassee, Old Winter Garden, Dorsher, Colonial/50, Bluford, Maguire)...Maguire's about the only one that isn't, and that would lead to the railroad tracks, so that would be the only possibility in my mind.

Ok, now for real I'm logging off...check back this evening (or afternoon probably).

Glad to be a part of this team...I'm sick of all the disappearances we have in this city. We need to bring the missing home!

 

[BondJamesBond]

How do you mean, Bond?

*snipped*

OT...Well...maybe not intentional then...

"Face Value" was the title of a Phil Collins album/CD that contained his most recognizable hit, "In the Air Tonight" . The lyrics & tone of the song blossomed into an urban legend about its origin. One interpretation of the lyrics tells the tale as a person that witnessed a murder...later observing the perp in need of being rescued...yet choosing not to intervene and letting justice be served.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Air_Tonight


A bit of trivia re: the album cover & name. Collins is not exactly male-model material and apparently the record companies had expressed this opinion earlier in his career. With a break from his past mgmt and the release of, "Face Value" he took the opportunity to 'up yours' his past mgt by making the FV cover a close-up of his mug...and the name underscoring the dig.

Entertaining if nothing else I hope.

Again, welcome! OK...back to finding Tracy! :thumb:

 

[mombomb]

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/orange_news/062309_Police_drain_Hataway_septic_tank

I don't know if the above link will work as I have never done this before, but I didn't see this mentioned anywhere. It was a story on Fox 35 last night about LE draining JH septic tank.

 

[FaceValue]

Funny, I thought of the connection when you mentioned the song, but the original thought was that you often have to look past the surface to find the truth in things... I, on the other hand, tend to wear my heart on my sleeve, so while I have depth, there aren't a lot of secrets.

Oh man, I can tell I'm goign to be addicted ot his board. Not good..........work will suffer. LOL

 

[FaceValue]

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/orange_news/062309_Police_drain_Hataway_septic_tank

I don't know if the above link will work as I have never done this before, but I didn't see this mentioned anywhere. It was a story on Fox 35 last night about LE draining JH septic tank.

Um, ewww....not envious of their jobs. Interesting...I wonder if they tracked to the pinging to the tank. Odd thought, but who knows. Great way to get rid of problems is to flush them down the toilet - no pun intended. Clearly they think there's evidence in that house. Makes me more confident that they have enough to charge him, but not enough to convict him.

Gotta say, if I were his dad too, I wouldn't say no to getting my septic tank cleaned out...that is not cheap - I just had to do it last year. If I knew it was clean (ie - no evidence), I'd say hell yeah... maybe the dad is as savvy as the son...lol

 

[cocoamom]

Anyone have any idea why they would want to cut down some trees???

snipped fromthe Fox news article linked above:

Members of Ocoee Police, Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the Orange County Sheriff's Office were on hand as the contents of the eight foot long septic tank were drained. According to the police department, Hataway's father gave them permission to cut down some trees and drain the tank.

 

[chesterp]

Anyone have any idea why they would want to cut down some trees???

snipped fromthe Fox news article linked above:

Members of Ocoee Police, Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the Orange County Sheriff's Office were on hand as the contents of the eight foot long septic tank were drained. According to the police department, Hataway's father gave them permission to cut down some trees and drain the tank.

Very interesting, keep us posted on the updates.

 

[BondJamesBond]

U...I wonder if they tracked to the pinging to the tank.

*snipped*

FWIW...I've learned a little bit about 'pings' in the last several months :bang: Unless they are associated w/ GPS tracking apps (which is a specific added service you can pay for on a cell phone) pings only help you determine (1) which cell tower carried a transmission, and (2) which direction within 120degrees (out of 360degrees of a circle) IOW which 1/3rd of the circle, in which the cell phone was located when the transmission took place.

When you add the above to the location of other cell towers in a general area that could've also carried a call you can start to narrow down to an area in which the cell phone was likely located. However, it is an area and not a specific point (like a latitude & longitude coordinate on a GPS) Complicating factors like cell towers shifting calls due to call volume, etc. make it an inexact science...but...its a helluvalot better than the alternative.

HTH.

 

[dearmont]

Probably to get the septic vacuum truck in there or perhaps backhoes into position to dig up the tank.

 

[Kimster]

Hi FaceValue!!!

to Websleuths! Wonderful posts, thanks!!!

 

[FaceValue]

Probably to get the septic vacuum truck in there or perhaps backhoes into position to dig up the tank.

Agreed. Ocoee is a tree-filled town. Septic was probably set off the road and required that to be moved to get to where it was - could be located in the backyard. You'd know where the leech filed was located by how well their grass/plants were growing in a particular area.

Amy & Chester sound like they've been by the house, so they could probably confirm this conclusion. I'll see if I can make a detour at some point today to check it out. Not sure if I can, but if it's possible, I will and will follow up with what I see.

 

[warbuckle]

You know JH just seems like the kind of person who would have a hidden dungan. I could totally see him locking her up and then driving her car away. Maybe that is why it is so hard to find a body. Maybe he didn't use a pond or lake at all. Do we have a good time line for the crime? When did they leave the bar and when was she reported missing?

 

[FaceValue]

Just verified on JVM show, her mother called her cell phone around 8:30am and they located the car via the PING, 2/10 of a mile from his house. NO CELL PHONE in the car though! Phone must be nearby, hopefully her body as well.

Also, LE does not have enough to hold him much longer, even with the midsdemeanor charge by the other girl. Currently being held on unrelated drug charges.

Another thought -

I looked back on this post that Fifth Essence made and I kept being drawn back to it. I know very little about pings so forgive my ignorance - Bond, maybe you can shed some light on whether or not this is possible to determine based on what we know.

If they located the car via the ping, how far away from a tower can a ping be recognized? Since I don't think we know where the ping came from (otherwise a phone would have been found by now), we might be able to narrow a radius based on a swath from the car.... that might have already been accomplished in the previous posts, but I'm not sure I completely understand the information in those.

For example, say the ping can be picked up within 5 miles of a tower. If the car was found, couldn't we determine which towers were within 5 miles of the car, and narrow a search to 5 miles in each direction of the tower? That will still cover a lot of territory, but would seem we were sure to find something in that area.

I don't know how great I would be at searching - not sure I can stomach what I might find....but I'm pretty good at theory. I have the heart to search, the want to search, but just not the gut or the stomach to handle it. Maybe there's something else I could do to assist that wouldn't involve potentially finding a body.

Ok, time to get going again - break over. I'll check in later.

 

[warbuckle]

So what time did she leave the bar with JH

 

[chesterp]

Another thought -

I looked back on this post that Fifth Essence made and I kept being drawn back to it. I know very little about pings so forgive my ignorance - Bond, maybe you can shed some light on whether or not this is possible to determine based on what we know.

If they located the car via the ping, how far away from a tower can a ping be recognized? Since I don't think we know where the ping came from (otherwise a phone would have been found by now), we might be able to narrow a radius based on a swath from the car.... that might have already been accomplished in the previous posts, but I'm not sure I completely understand the information in those.

For example, say the ping can be picked up within 5 miles of a tower. If the car was found, couldn't we determine which towers were within 5 miles of the car, and narrow a search to 5 miles in each direction of the tower? That will still cover a lot of territory, but would seem we were sure to find something in that area.

I don't know how great I would be at searching - not sure I can stomach what I might find....but I'm pretty good at theory. I have the heart to search, the want to search, but just not the gut or the stomach to handle it. Maybe there's something else I could do to assist that wouldn't involve potentially finding a body.

Ok, time to get going again - break over. I'll check in later.

From what I was told, the 8:30 AM ping tower is a stones throw from where the car was found and JH's house. I could be wrong....but I think I heard someone say that is the tower. I have got to believe in my heart LE has more info on pings that we will never know until this can be pinned on him.

I think the window of foul play is 4-5 hour MAX.............. and I truly believe he had planned on going back to remove the car. He could have walked home less than 2 minutes or shorter if he jogged.......do what he needed to do and then return to get the car. The back of his property and where the car was found has a roofing business and other type of business like this. He could have dodged between these business, not take the main road to be seen. Possibly he planned on coming back and LE was already there. I will never ever forget the screaming at me for stepping on his property....all I did was apologize. There is a gated link fence on the backside of the property.

I am in contact with a young lady who was with Tracy that evening and she is consumed with GUILT because Tracy left with this guy. This is tearing up this community...my heart aches for her parent's and immediate family and all of her friends.

 

[mombomb]

http://www.wftv.com/news/19825612/detail.html

there was a badly decomposed body found (so badly decomposed not known if male or female)...fwiw

WFTV just reported that the body was that of an African American female with tattoos. This area is close to my house and is a known hang out for homeless people - so...

 

[FaceValue]

I am in contact with a young lady who was with Tracy that evening and she is consumed with GUILT because Tracy left with this guy. This is tearing up this community...my heart aches for her parent's and immediate family and all of her friends.

Told you this was gonna get me into trouble....getting distracted...totally should be working. But I think I might be on to something here.

Glad you made this post, Chester...seems like she might be of value to my thought pattern.

Amy, you mentioned you reviewed JHV's Myspace page - curious if you looked for TO's. The pics we've been seeing on the news are clearly from either Myspace or Facebook, so she's out there somewhere. I'm curious if there's any common friends between TO and JHV. If so, some of them might know more of the dynamic between there relationship or their personalities that might make determining a motive easier a nd also narrow down areas.

My second thought to that was in regards to this friend that Chester refers to. I was going to mention whether or not she had a Myspace, because people often vent their thoughts and knowledge of things on there. I was wondering she knew more than the media may have reported. Chester having contact may still help out what I was thinking - maybe she can shed some light on the relationship between those two? How long had they know each other? Did they hang out outside of the Tap Room meetings we know of? Mutual friends? Etc. Someone knows something and cyber space would be a good way to find that out.

I feel like we're moving in the right direction.

As well, Bond - do we have a way to determine the tower(s) right by where the car was found? This would be interesting information.

Ok, one more thought before I walk out the door and I will apologize in advance because this is not going to be very politically correct but very near where he lives/the car was found is an area we refer to as Little Mexico. There's a lot of individuals that live in the area that don't speak a lick of english and surely there are a lot of illegal immigrants there. If they know something, they sure as hell aren't going to talk for fear of drawing attention to themselves. It's not a bad area, but it's also not an area I would send someone out by themselves....but, if there's someone in the area that speaks spanish, it might be an idea for them to go out and just walk around - you often see people out in front of their houses and if you non-chalantly strike up a conversation, in spanish, it might uncover something. I keep going back to that area in my mind as well, am I'm thinking there's a reason for it.... the railroad tracks go right through that area......

Ok, i'm out, for real. Chat later!

 

[BondJamesBond]

Another thought -

I looked back on this post that Fifth Essence made and I kept being drawn back to it. I know very little about pings so forgive my ignorance - Bond, maybe you can shed some light on whether or not this is possible to determine based on what we know.

If they located the car via the ping, how far away from a tower can a ping be recognized? Since I don't think we know where the ping came from (otherwise a phone would have been found by now), we might be able to narrow a radius based on a swath from the car.... that might have already been accomplished in the previous posts, but I'm not sure I completely understand the information in those.

For example, say the ping can be picked up within 5 miles of a tower. If the car was found, couldn't we determine which towers were within 5 miles of the car, and narrow a search to 5 miles in each direction of the tower? That will still cover a lot of territory, but would seem we were sure to find something in that area.

I don't know how great I would be at searching - not sure I can stomach what I might find....but I'm pretty good at theory. I have the heart to search, the want to search, but just not the gut or the stomach to handle it. Maybe there's something else I could do to assist that wouldn't involve potentially finding a body.

Ok, time to get going again - break over. I'll check in later.

I'm hoping BreatheLife21 is already workin' on some of the details, but, FWIW, I updated the Google Map to reflect the FCC-registered cell towers in the Ocoee area.

Important to note:

• Only FCC-registered towers shown, others may exist
• Believe Tracy's service is Verizon, hence, all towers shown may not service Tracy's phone
• Source: http://www.city-data.com/towers/cell-Ocoee-Florida.html#Antenna

At first glance (and I do mean glance) it would appear that the house & the car would be viewed by any one of the available towers as basically the same location (i.e. same antenna servicing 120degrees). IOW...house indistinguishable from the car via ping. However, some towers antenna handoff @ different positions (e.g. 0degrees, 120degrees, 240degrees, vs. 30degrees, 150degrees, 270degrees) so, depending on which tower, and which handoff position...there's still a chance to distinguish house from car.

Breathlife...you Verizon? You know where I'm goin...or maybe I'm just catchin' up to you?

Here's the updated map link: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U....573216,-81.531601&spn=0.077186,0.105228&z=13

RE: Finding the car via the 8:30 ping per Fifth Essence post I would venture to say what prolly happened was LE got the 8:30 ping direction and started searching the 120degree area and located the car. IOW...they didn't have to search far when the ping came back in the same general area as the house...they prolly just started searching from the house and working their way out.

 

[warbuckle]

So his alter ego was named Vader mcgirth. Vader means father is several languages and Mcgirth is either the nickname for a large Penis or refers to Renaldo McGirth who is the youngest person on death row in FL.

Does that mean he is the father of large penis's or the father of killer's. Either way sounds hinky.