Fleet and Priscilla White speak out

[otg]

(bbm)

I just read an interesting early article about the possible exhumation of JBR's remains.

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon165.htm

I'm confused. Did AH need the BPD's "permission" to get an exhumation order?

No. That was entirely Hunter's call. BPD could have gone around him if they felt it was important enough to risk further alienation and hostility between the two departments by going to a judge seeking an order; but, except for Smit (who was working for the DA's office), investigators had pretty much eliminated the stun-gun theory.

 

[CherCher]

It’s hard to imagine what “negatives” Thomas was talking about, but I suppose he might have meant the “psychological” negatives. He does refer to it (exhumation) as “one of the most shocking actions a government could take.” He says that the “very idea was anathema,” and that they “would look like monsters” if the exhumation did not provide definitive answers.

I think that this is just another example of Thomas targeting his true nemesis: Boulder-style justice.
...

AK

In the article I linked above, Haddon (atty for you know who) did indeed say that disinterring JBR would be "monstrous".

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It’s hard to imagine what “negatives” Thomas was talking about, but I suppose he might have meant the “psychological” negatives. He does refer to it (exhumation) as “one of the most shocking actions a government could take.” He says that the “very idea was anathema,” and that they “would look like monsters” if the exhumation did not provide definitive answers.

I think that this is just another example of Thomas targeting his true nemesis: Boulder-style justice.
...

AK

ST and his need for drama... sigh..

I think that ST was most irritated that he was not top dog. He thought he had all the answers on this very first murder case he ever had and he was good and ticked that people did not believe he solved it in record time.

I think that it is just another way to keep the RDI going by not looking for all evidence. I think that it may have provided answers that would have put this case to rest. IMO

 

[Simply Caustic]

Bouncing off the above post..
I think ST has backed entirely off this case because he's NOT seeking drama or fame: He put forth his best efforts as a cop, and then as an author, and instead of giving tidbit quotes on Nancy Grace (whenever JBR is mentioned) , he's kept a low profile and backed off. I don't think he was seeking fame or drama, but rather has been an advocate for JBR...
much like the White family, in my humble opinion.

Via Kindle, like a true Amazon junkie

 

[Mama2JML]

(bbm)
No. That was entirely Hunter's call. BPD could have gone around him if they felt it was important enough to risk further alienation and hostility between the two departments by going to a judge seeking an order; but, except for Smit (who was working for the DA's office), investigators had pretty much eliminated the stun-gun theory.

..."entirely Hunter's call" if the BPD wished to pursue an exhumation? What if the BPD wasn't 'on board'?

 

[bettybaby00]

Bouncing off the above post..
I think ST has backed entirely off this case because he's NOT seeking drama or fame: He put forth his best efforts as a cop, and then as an author, and instead of giving tidbit quotes on Nancy Grace (whenever JBR is mentioned) , he's kept a low profile and backed off. I don't think he was seeking fame or drama, but rather has been an advocate for JBR...
much like the White family, in my humble opinion.

Via Kindle, like a true Amazon junkie

Bouncing off you

IA with your assessment of ST. Irritated b/c he wasn't top dog doesn't make much sense given that he wasn't alone in his belief that the Rs were responsible for JRBs death. In fact LS holds the distinction as the only LEO who held a theory that his peers didn't believe.

The only thing "kept going" when the body wasn't exhumed was the Rs ability to continue to perpetrate the falsehood that a stun gun was used, and therefore, there had to be an intruder. I mean if they had exhumed the body, LSs PowerPoint presentation would have been rendered useless, and he would have had to cancel all those talk show apperances.

 

[CherCher]

..."entirely Hunter's call" if the BPD wished to pursue an exhumation? What if the BPD wasn't 'on board'?

In other words, if Alex Hunter believed that a stun gun had been used he could have petitioned a judge for an exhumation order whether or not any BPOs thought he was correct or not.

I wish he HAD got an exhumation order. It may have settled the question once and for all.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Bouncing off you

IA with your assessment of ST. Irritated b/c he wasn't top dog doesn't make much sense given that he wasn't alone in his belief that the Rs were responsible for JRBs death. In fact LS holds the distinction as the only LEO who held a theory that his peers didn't believe.

The only thing "kept going" when the body wasn't exhumed was the Rs ability to continue to perpetrate the falsehood that a stun gun was used, and therefore, there had to be an intruder. I mean if they had exhumed the body, LSs PowerPoint presentation would have been rendered useless, and he would have had to cancel all those talk show apperances.

Actually LS investigated the crime from both sides. He was an amazing investigator and did his job impeccably. The issues is that LS came into this case with lots of experience and an amazing record on closing Homicides. ST had 0 homicide investigations to his name. And then he could not take the fact that people were not doing it his way and he quit.

Not everyone can be a homicide investigator. And that is just what it is.

The exhumation would have proven once and for all if there was a stun gun. And if there had been a stun gun that would have been the end game for RDI on the BPD. And they knew it. I believe that they did not exhume JBR to save their own skin. Other than that you are looking for all you can to find the truth. The real answers. There is no down side to having all the information.

IMO

 

[DeDee]

Steve Thomas received more than a hundred commendations and awards during his thirteen-year police career, including the Award of Excellence and the Medal for Lifesaving, for assignments ranging from recruit training and SWAT to special investigations and undercover narcotics. Prior to the JonBenet case, Thomas worked on a multi-state task force investigating racketeering and organized crime that resulted in numerous grand-jury indictments. Thomas has been a guest lecturer on criminal justice topics and instructed extensively on law-enforcement issues.

http://us.macmillan.com/jonbenet/SteveThomas

Steve Thomas was forced to sell his home to pay attorney fees to Daniel Petrocelli, his defense lawyer, when the Rs filed their $80 million libel lawsuit against him.

[Lin Wood claimed] Thomas pursued "his version of vigilante justice" after a grand jury declined to indict either parent in 1999, Wood said when the libel lawsuit was filed.

http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/2001/Dec/19/former-detective-steve-thomas-remains-ramseys/


The case was settled out of court. The www/forstevethomas.com website is defunct. But not before Mr. Thomas released this statement that, in part, reads:

For the record, I was not the one who sought out a settlement in this case.

My absolute requirement for any resolution was the mandate that I would admit no wrongdoing whatsoever, nor would I personally pay a single dollar in settlement. And that is exactly what was achieved with this resolution. In fact, the book can continue to be published, advertised, quoted, and marketed. I will continue to speak on the case whenever I wish. I continue to stand resolutely by my book and the opinions I expressed in it. My beliefs have not changed.

Steve Thomas
6 August 2002

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Steve Thomas was forced to sell his home to pay attorney fees to Daniel Petrocelli, his defense lawyer, when the Rs filed their $80 million libel lawsuit against him.

[Lin Wood claimed] Thomas pursued "his version of vigilante justice" after a grand jury declined to indict either parent in 1999, Wood said when the libel lawsuit was filed.

http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/2001/Dec/19/former-detective-steve-thomas-remains-ramseys/


The case was settled out of court. The www/forstevethomas.com website is defunct. But not before Mr. Thomas released this statement that, in part, reads:

I have read his statement. I won't comment further on that because it is not my intention to trash someone. Just to point out that he did not have the experience or the temperament for a murder case.

It is what it is. He wanted them to listen to him and do it the way he wanted and when he did not get that, Then that was that.
I bet he was a good cop before this case, But I think that the kind of police work he did before this case and what this case needed was two different things.

 

[CherCher]

Actually LS investigated the crime from both sides. He was an amazing investigator and did his job impeccably. The issues is that LS came into this case with lots of experience and an amazing record on closing Homicides. ST had 0 homicide investigations to his name. And then he could not take the fact that people were not doing it his way and he quit.

Not everyone can be a homicide investigator. And that is just what it is.

The exhumation would have proven once and for all if there was a stun gun. And if there had been a stun gun that would have been the end game for RDI on the BPD. And they knew it. I believe that they did not exhume JBR to save their own skin. Other than that you are looking for all you can to find the truth. The real answers. There is no down side to having all the information.

IMO

Well that's one way of looking at it.
Another is that Lou Smit was re-hired, out of retirement by Alex Hunter. I've read nothing that LS has ever said that convinces me that he was anything other than a stooge for the DA's office. Just MOO.

Also, Mr. Hunter could have got an exhumation order without the approbation of the BPD. Why didn't he?

 

[bettybaby00]

Actually LS investigated the crime from both sides. He was an amazing investigator and did his job impeccably. The issues is that LS came into this case with lots of experience and an amazing record on closing Homicides. ST had 0 homicide investigations to his name. And then he could not take the fact that people were not doing it his way and he quit.

Not everyone can be a homicide investigator. And that is just what it is.

The exhumation would have proven once and for all if there was a stun gun. And if there had been a stun gun that would have been the end game for RDI on the BPD. And they knew it. I believe that they did not exhume JBR to save their own skin. Other than that you are looking for all you can to find the truth. The real answers. There is no down side to having all the information.

IMO

So why didn't the Ramsey's want one? As you said, as did 48 hours, that it would have proven their innocence? Kinda ironic that this is the one instance AH chose to "agree" with the BPD.

ST quitting b/c he didn't get his way is your interpretation, but I agree that there is no downside to having all the information. No one does except JRBs killer(s) and they ain't talking.

 

[Mama2JML]

Well that's one way of looking at it.
Another is that Lou Smit was re-hired, out of retirement by Alex Hunter. I've read nothing that LS has ever said that convinces me that he was anything other than a stooge for the DA's office. Just MOO.

Also, Mr. Hunter could have got an exhumation order without the approbation of the BPD. Why didn't he?

The investigative body was within the BPD, how would this have been achieved?

 

[CherCher]

I guess some of our posts are being ignored or pretending to be ignored, because there are still folks who are posting messages as though they don't know that Alex Hunter could have got an exhumation order without the approval of the BPD.

A quote from above "I believe that they did not exhume JBR to save their own skin".
Does that include the Ramsey's biggest cheerleader, Alex Hunter? He had the power to get the exhumation. Why didn't he??

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So why didn't the Ramsey's want one? As you said, as did 48 hours, that it would have proven their innocence? Kinda ironic that this is the one instance AH chose to "agree" with the BPD.

ST quitting b/c he didn't get his way is your interpretation, but I agree that there is no downside to having all the information. No one does except JRBs killer(s) and they ain't talking.

I can understand why the R's would not want to unbury their child and then do it again. That makes perfect sense. But The BPD is not supposed to have any motive than the truth.

 

[Mama2JML]

So why didn't the Ramsey's want one? As you said, as did 48 hours, that it would have proven their innocence? Kinda ironic that this is the one instance AH chose to "agree" with the BPD.

ST quitting b/c he didn't get his way is your interpretation, but I agree that there is no downside to having all the information. No one does except JRBs killer(s) and they ain't talking.

The BPD was in control of the investigation, and the Ramseys were the prime suspects. Why didn't the BPD seek an exhumation? ...to settle this once and for all?

 

[CherCher]

The investigative body was within the BPD, how would this have been achieved?

Within LE, as I'm sure you know, there is a chain of command. A search of a suspect's home cannot be conducted without a search warrant. The DA's office petitions a judge for a warrant, not the police. The police are peacekeepers. Detectives work for the police and are DA investigators as well.
Alex Hunter re-hired Lou Smit from retirement. If AH really believed that JB had suffered stun gun wounds he had an investigator who was willing to be right there at the 2nd autopsy.

 

[Venom]

The BPD would have had to go to the DA's office to get an exhumation order, and the DA goes to the judge. Obviously, the DA's office wasn't backing up the BPD's sense of need for an exhumation.
If I'm correct, couldn't the BPD go above the DA's office and petition a judge for one? And didn't someone from the DA's office tell the BPD that they better be prepared to NOT have the DA's office as backup for the need to exhume?

 

[CherCher]

The BPD would have had to go to the DA's office to get an exhumation order, and the DA goes to the judge. Obviously, the DA's office wasn't backing up the BPD's sense of need for an exhumation.
If I'm correct, couldn't the BPD go above the DA's office and petition a judge for one? And didn't someone from the DA's office tell the BPD that they better be prepared to NOT have the DA's office as backup for the need to exhume?

Alex Hunter publicly stated in 1997 that he was prepared to petition for the exhumation of JBR's body to prove that there were stun gun marks as per Lou Smit's belief. The rest of the BPD didn't believe in and pretty much de-bunked the stun gun theory, and the Haddon Law Firm also said that exhuming JBR's body would be "monstrous".

I personally think the exhumation should have happened, but I'm not going to put all of the blame on the BPD for it not happening when the DA could have had it done on his own and decided not to.

 

[Theonly1]

Yeah, it would be monstrous to dig her up only to discover no stun gun damage!