Fleet and Priscilla White speak out

[Linda7NJ]

I'm a RDI 100%. I'm also an atheist.
That said, if I was standing in Ramsey shoes there is no way I'd allow exhumation of my child. Never. No way. They would have to drag me off the grave by my ankles.....guilty or innocent.

This is the only thing I can't bash the Ramsey's for.





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[Theonly1]

Just curious, if you thought a loved one had been poisoned, and they had been already laid to rest, would there not be a trade-off from the horror of exhumation compared to the finding of possible justice? Yes, it would be hard but if I thought a "killer was on the loose" and I knew I was innocent, and I thought some data and facts could be gleaned by an exhumation to catch a killer I would do it. In a heartbeat.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Just curious, if you thought a loved one had been poisoned, and they had been already laid to rest, would there not be a trade-off from the horror of exhumation compared to the finding of possible justice? Yes, it would be hard but if I thought a "killer was on the loose" and I knew I was innocent, and I thought some data and facts could be gleaned by an exhumation to catch a killer I would do it. In a heartbeat.

Me?

Justice is such an abstract concept when your loved one is no longer. Justice would be the last thing on my mind. Clearing myself? Pffft. Who cares? I'd be lucky to live through it.

I'm amazed at the strength of people like Lacey Peterson's mother, Beth Twitty, Mark Klass for example.

I'm not like them.

All IMO


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[CherCher]

I'm a RDI 100%. I'm also an atheist.
That said, if I was standing in Ramsey shoes there is no way I'd allow exhumation of my child. Never. No way. They would have to drag me off the grave by my ankles.....guilty or innocent.

This is the only thing I can't bash the Ramsey's for.





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I'm RDI and a Christian by faith. I don't really think this is a sectarian issue, but I believe the body is a shell for the soul. If I thought someone had murdered one of my babies, I would have no problem with the police or DA or ME re-checking an autopsy. I would want to know. It wouldn't be easy, but even an atheist has to admit that the "person" is no longer there.

 

[bettybaby00]

The BPD would have had to go to the DA's office to get an exhumation order, and the DA goes to the judge. Obviously, the DA's office wasn't backing up the BPD's sense of need for an exhumation.
If I'm correct, couldn't the BPD go above the DA's office and petition a judge for one? And didn't someone from the DA's office tell the BPD that they better be prepared to NOT have the DA's office as backup for the need to exhume?

I know ST recounted that "threat" but I'm not sure if he attached it to a specific incident.

As for the idea that BPD didn't want to do it, I have no idea why they would have felt that way. I certainly don't think it was about protecting their own hides. they were already maligned to the point that one more "failure" certainly wouldn't have made any difference.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm RDI and a Christian by faith. I don't really think this is a sectarian issue, but I believe the body is a shell for the soul. If I thought someone had murdered one of my babies, I would have no problem with the police or DA or ME re-checking an autopsy. I would want to know. It wouldn't be easy, but even an atheist has to admit that the "person" is no longer there.

I'm just a weirdo that way and It's selfish, I'll admit. I'd actually prefer, if given a choice...no autopsy, no embalming.

IMO ALL that's left..is there...in the ground.

Personally, I don't care what is done with my own body when I die.


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[Anti-K]

It seems to me that BPD decided not to ask for the body to be exhumed. They considered it, went some ways towards organizing it but then decided not to do it. Yes, maybe the DA’s office could have done it anyway, but at that point BPD was still running the investigation and BPD decided not to ask for it. So, the DA didn’t ask for it. No one is to blame here except BPD.

I don’t know if it would have made a difference, but I think it should have been done.
...

AK

 

[Linda7NJ]

It seems to me that BPD decided not to ask for the body to be exhumed. They considered it, went some ways towards organizing it but then decided not to do it. Yes, maybe the DA’s office could have done it anyway, but at that point BPD was still running the investigation and BPD decided not to ask for it. So, the DA didn’t ask for it. No one is to blame here except BPD.

I don’t know if it would have made a difference, but I think it should have been done.
...

AK

I disagree with you're laying ALL the blame at the feet of BPD.

The Ramsey's certainly contributed more than their fair share. IMO


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[bettybaby00]

I'm a RDI 100%. I'm also an atheist.
That said, if I was standing in Ramsey shoes there is no way I'd allow exhumation of my child. Never. No way. They would have to drag me off the grave by my ankles.....guilty or innocent.

This is the only thing I can't bash the Ramsey's for.





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Just curious, if you thought a loved one had been poisoned, and they had been already laid to rest, would there not be a trade-off from the horror of exhumation compared to the finding of possible justice? Yes, it would be hard but if I thought a "killer was on the loose" and I knew I was innocent, and I thought some data and facts could be gleaned by an exhumation to catch a killer I would do it. In a heartbeat.

I can't say with any certainty what I would do. obviously for this to be considered, the situation would be extreme, and it's likely the choice would be out of my hands anyway.

 

[pukasonqo2]

are exhumations, when the cause of death is suspicious, very common?

i am not sure how i feel about exhuming a body, the rational part of me thinks the essence or soul of the person is long gone, what remains is just that, remains

but then, ask me that question when a loved one is involved and you might get the same or a different answer. i really don't know but i do understand that, for some religions, disturbing the body is a big no


lupus est homini , non , non quom qualis sit novit

 

[DeDee]

RSBM

It is what it is. He wanted them to listen to him and do it the way he wanted and when he did not get that, Then that was that.
I bet he was a good cop before this case, But I think that the kind of police work he did before this case and what this case needed was two different things.

ST was an outstanding Detective, I agree. And he earned over 100 awards and commendations as a testament to his career's success.

And I will admit, each detective brought their own special skills to the investigation. Also, each detective was assigned certain areas of the investigation creating the state of imperfect balance when "the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing". Without conference calls or meetings, the only way one knew what the other had discovered was reading the written report.

For example: ST was not assigned the responsibility of the DNA. It was Det. Trujillo's task. Steve Thomas' specialty was nailing Patsy. Even if his "explosion in the bathroom" theory is not totally correct, he knew Patsy was good for it.

Another example is when Lou Smit arrived, the first thing he did was organize the files. That had not been done? I'm an organizer so that impacts my opinion. I am also a realist who has studied the evidence and there is no way an intruder murdered this child. If in doubt, read this lead detective's book:

"By the time I parted company with the D.A.'s office, I was convinced that there was no significant possibility that an intruder had been involved in the death of JonBenet."
- James Kolar, former lead detective

Steve Thomas received more than a hundred commendations and awards during his thirteen-year police career, including the Award of Excellence and the Medal for Lifesaving, for assignments ranging from recruit training and SWAT to special investigations and undercover narcotics. Prior to the JonBenet case, Thomas worked on a multi-state task force investigating racketeering and organized crime that resulted in numerous grand-jury indictments. Thomas has been a guest lecturer on criminal justice topics and instructed extensively on law-enforcement issues.

http://us.macmillan.com/jonbenet/SteveThomas

 

[bettybaby00]

are exhumations, when the cause of death is suspicious, very common?

i am not sure how i feel about exhuming a body, the rational part of me thinks the essence or soul of the person is long gone, what remains is just that, remains

but then, ask me that question when a loved one is involved and you might get the same or a different answer. i really don't know but i do understand that, for some religions, disturbing the body is a big no


lupus est homini , non , non quom qualis sit novit

I've no idea how common they are, but I would think they don't happen very often.

As for making a decision regarding a loved one...I get what you're saying. An interesting thing to consider: how willing would you be if it would clear you of suspicion? That's gotta be an instance that doesn't happen too often.

 

[Venom]

Alex Hunter publicly stated in 1997 that he was prepared to petition for the exhumation of JBR's body to prove that there were stun gun marks as per Lou Smit's belief. The rest of the BPD didn't believe in and pretty much de-bunked the stun gun theory, and the Haddon Law Firm also said that exhuming JBR's body would be "monstrous".

I personally think the exhumation should have happened, but I'm not going to put all of the blame on the BPD for it not happening when the DA could have had it done on his own and decided not to.

I'm not really trying to blame anyone really. My point was to state how an exhumation order should go and that I thought if the BPD would have went above the DA's office, they would have lost some popularity with the DA's office. IF there was any popularity left. I also wanted to make sure I had my fact correct that the DA's office wouldn't back the BPD up if they went above them for the exhumation. :blushing:

 

[Venom]

Just curious, if you thought a loved one had been poisoned, and they had been already laid to rest, would there not be a trade-off from the horror of exhumation compared to the finding of possible justice? Yes, it would be hard but if I thought a "killer was on the loose" and I knew I was innocent, and I thought some data and facts could be gleaned by an exhumation to catch a killer I would do it. In a heartbeat.

I'd say yes, I'd have no problem with an exhumation to get answers. But then again, I'd have to say that pukasong is right with when the time comes and it is your own child...you never know. I've thought about the R's saying that they had just buried JB and wanted her to lay in rest, and I can see their point clearly- but just as well I'd like to get answers and if it would "clear" my name in the court of public opinion, then why not.

As far as justice, I don't think justice is ever really served in a murder. The killer is caught, convicted, and sentenced...what does that do really? It doesn't bring the person back, it doesn't erase all the pain.
I'll stop with my essay now. :blushing:

 

[DeDee]

are exhumations, when the cause of death is suspicious, very common?

i am not sure how i feel about exhuming a body, the rational part of me thinks the essence or soul of the person is long gone, what remains is just that, remains

but then, ask me that question when a loved one is involved and you might get the same or a different answer. i really don't know but i do understand that, for some religions, disturbing the body is a big no


lupus est homini , non , non quom qualis sit novit

No, exhumations are not common. Sometimes a family may wish to move a loved one to a different burial ground. Or it could be a Jane/John Doe who needs to be properly identified, although, it is a complicated process.

In this case, it would require a court's order from a Judge with jurisdiction including the stipulations others have listed. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that some cemeteries are known to prohibit exhumations. However, after checking GA law, it seems there would be no problem in this regard.


It was not lost on me that Fleet White, III mentioned the repercussions of the slander his family suffered lays at the feet of AH and boldly called him by name, out loud, during the recent BCC meeting. Good for him.

 

[2 percent]

These last three pages of posts have been an interesting read...

As a disclaimer I have to say I don't remember much of the media coverage of this case and saw no tv coverage. We were posted out of the country at the time, another victim of Afarts (loving nickname :waiting: for AFRTS - Armed Forces Radio and Television Service) so most of my information comes from a rehash of what was known later rather than at the time.

My very first question is, who gives a *beep* about publicity?!

If I'm reading this correctly, everyone from the BPD to the DAs office to the Ramseys were taking a hit publicly at this time during the investigation. An exhumation, quietly and quickly done in the early hours under a tent, wouldn't have been any worse than being called incompetent every day like BPD. Or being called a murderer and molester every day like the Ramseys.

And this thing with Smit makes no sense. He's an investigator. His job for both sides was to assess evidence and so he forms a theory based on marks...but made no effort to verify his theory? Why wasn't he pushing the hardest for exhumation? Especially since he obviously didn't agree with some findings and was more than happy to put forth his own unverified theory in the public forum.

Ditto Alex Hunter. He's in a brawl with the BPD for what? Because they don't agree on the interpretation of the evidence? They don't agree on how to proceed? I doubt that is anything new, so why did it have to be so public? Again, you're taking a public hit every day, so stiffen your spine and clear up some lingering questions with an exhumation.
(I'm highly critical of the actions Hunter took and the public way it was handled but I've pretty much concluded the man took one look at the investigation and saw an unprosecutable case. He resisted naming a POI, he resisted a grand jury jury and refused to sign the indictment because he knew his chances of winning were slim. But he should've taken a page from Sneddon's playbook and done the right thing even if the odds were stacked against him.)

 

[otg]

..."entirely Hunter's call" if the BPD wished to pursue an exhumation? What if the BPD wasn't 'on board'?

The investigative body was within the BPD, how would this have been achieved?

The BPD was in control of the investigation, and the Ramseys were the prime suspects. Why didn't the BPD seek an exhumation? ...to settle this once and for all?

Mama, I don’t know if all your (and others’) questions were answered or not by the responses provided by other posters. I’m certainly not an authority on exhumation, and I don’t really understand all the sudden interest in the details of the process. But as I understand it, anyone can petition (request) that a judge issue (grant) an order for exhumation. You and I (if we wanted) could ask a judge (who has jurisdiction) to issue an order to disinter JonBenet’s body. We wouldn’t even have to hire a lawyer to do it for us (although I’m a believer in the old adage that says, “A person who represents himself in court has a fool for a client.”). It would be up to the court to decide then on our arguments as to whether we had presented a good enough case for it.

That is all that’s required by law: a request and a judge’s approval. But in practice, there are more common procedures -- especially in an open homicide investigation. Usually the investigating body (most commonly, the PD) would ask the DA’s office to provide the legal proceedings (which makes sense -- right?). But without the agreement and help from either one of those two entities, only further alienation would result; so it would then be a balancing act as to the wisdom in going forward without the “buy-in” from the other entity. We know that at the time this was being considered, there already existed between the two entities a good bit of disagreement and downright open hostility. Neither side trusted the other. Now, in looking back at why all this existed, it’s a matter of “he said/she said”. Each side blames the other for the failures that resulted. But the moment was lost. Now, almost 20 years later, whatever evidence might have been gathered from a reexamination has been lost. In the recent words of someone else (about something else), “What difference, at this point, does it make?”

BTW, along the lines of an individual seeking an order for exhumation, I know of a case where someone did just that and succeeded. It involved the death and burial of someone who died in 1879. The person who sought the exhumation was herself a lawyer, and she was seeking to solve the mystery of who was buried in a grave using modern DNA testing. It’s a fascinating story for anyone interested enough to look into it:

http://thehillmoncase.com/

 

[Mama2JML]

Mama, I don’t know if all your (and others’) questions were answered or not by the responses provided by other posters. I’m certainly not an authority on exhumation, and I don’t really understand all the sudden interest in the details of the process. But as I understand it, anyone can petition (request) that a judge issue (grant) an order for exhumation. You and I (if we wanted) could ask a judge (who has jurisdiction) to issue an order to disinter JonBenet’s body. We wouldn’t even have to hire a lawyer to do it for us (although I’m a believer in the old adage that says, “A person who represents himself in court has a fool for a client.”). It would be up to the court to decide then on our arguments as to whether we had presented a good enough case for it.

That is all that’s required by law: a request and a judge’s approval. But in practice, there are more common procedures -- especially in an open homicide investigation. Usually the investigating body (most commonly, the PD) would ask the DA’s office to provide the legal proceedings (which makes sense -- right?). But without the agreement and help from either one of those two entities, only further alienation would result; so it would then be a balancing act as to the wisdom in going forward without the “buy-in” from the other entity. We know that at the time this was being considered, there already existed between the two entities a good bit of disagreement and downright open hostility. Neither side trusted the other. Now, in looking back at why all this existed, it’s a matter of “he said/she said”. Each side blames the other for the failures that resulted. But the moment was lost. Now, almost 20 years later, whatever evidence might have been gathered from a reexamination has been lost. In the recent words of someone else (about something else), “What difference, at this point, does it make?”

I'm interested in the truth. It may not make much of difference now, but it might have made all the difference in the world then. There's no telling where the truth might lead, in the future; resolution, a measure of justice? Maybe not, but assuredly neither will be achieved without it.

 

[DeeDee249]

I'm just a weirdo that way and It's selfish, I'll admit. I'd actually prefer, if given a choice...no autopsy, no embalming.

IMO ALL that's left..is there...in the ground.

Personally, I don't care what is done with my own body when I die.


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I am going to be cremated and my ashes sent to http://www.lifegem.com They extract the carbon from cremains or hair for those who prefer burial, and compress the carbon into a diamond. It takes several months. When me and my husband both are dead, my daughter can turn us into earrings. They can also do it with pets.

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

But I agree that the "moment" dawned when he accompanied JR to the basement, where JR immediately made a beeline for the WC, and yelled at seeing the body before the lights were even turned on.

I'm so sorry, this is semi-off-topic, but just real quick I wanted to ask something I don't remember ever hearing the answer to:

Did Fleet ever say exactly what JR yelled out when he saw the body? Did he say "Jonbenet!" or "Oh my God!" or "I see her!" or what? TIA.