Florida's Stand Your Ground Law

[RANCH]

Personally, I don't like any of it and fought against it being passed. My futile hope (with Florida's political realities and the NRA's backing) is that it will be repealed. If not that, I hope these committees that are looking at it make some major recommendations for changes. I don't think that LE should be restricted from making an arrest and doing an investigation. The SYG hearing should be done away with granting immunity. If LE finds charges are warranted they should go straight to a regular trial and the defense present their self defense before a jury. Florida is turning into the wild west of the 1800's with this law. That's my opinion.

It seems to me that there's more opposition to 776.032 of the Florida statutes than the actual SYG statute 776.013. The immunity for arrest and prosecution is a bit extreme to me and others.

Should the people of Florida restrict their right of self-defense, or should they change the law so that the immunity under 776.032 is repealed?

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.032.html

 

[dsntslp]

GZ is not convicted, and has not been convicted by the nation. That is a little extreme, if you ask me. IMO. You can find as many people supporting him, if not more, than those who support Trayvon. Obviously, he has major people backing him, he has raked in a ton of dough.

Opinions are like @..., everyone has one. Some will change as the evidence comes out, some won't. The only opinion that matters, is ONE, the juries.

BBM

Some are just bigger than others.

LOL, sorry, just had to.

Apologize for the OT.

 

[Reader]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article1222930.ece

This article is dated 4/1/12 but I think it's apt for this thread:

Since its passage in 2005, the "stand your ground'' law has protected people who have pursued another, initiated a confrontation and then used deadly force to defend themselves. Citing the law, judges have granted immunity to killers who put themselves in danger, so long as their pursuit was not criminal, so long as the person using force had a right to be there, and so long as he could convince the judge he was in fear of great danger or death.

The Tampa Bay Times has identified 140 cases across the state in which "stand your ground'' has been invoked, and many involve defendants whose lives were clearly in jeopardy. But at least a dozen share similarities with what we know about the Trayvon Martin case, and they show the law has not always worked as its sponsors say they intended.

Here is a list of 11 cases similar to Trayvon's and other good information:

http://tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/main

 

[grammieto5]

Good morning all I hope this question is in the right thread. I understand GZ has the right to carry a gun, and the right to use the SYG law. Would someone please tell me what rights Trayvon has/had? thanks

 

[Karmady]

Good morning all I hope this question is in the right thread. I understand GZ has the right to carry a gun, and the right to use the SYG law. Would someone please tell me what rights Trayvon has/had? thanks

Trayvon has no rights under the SYG because he has not been charged with a crime.

 

[grammieto5]

Trayvon has no rights under the SYG because he has not been charged with a crime.

I understand the SYG law is for GZ only. I'm asking what rights Trayvon (as the victim) has/had?

 

[Karmady]

I understand the SYG law is for GZ only. I'm asking what rights Trayvon (as the victim) has/had?

The same rights as anyone else, I suppose. And some enhanced rights as a member of a protected class or classes. Maybe submit a new thread? Hate crimes, crimes against minors?

 

[grammieto5]

The same rights as anyone else, I suppose. And some enhanced rights as a member of a protected class or classes. Maybe submit a new thread? Hate crimes, crimes against minors?

I believe Trayvon does not qualify to be a member for a proctected class, other then being a AA, he is not poor, nor is he uneducated, but then again maybe all he needs is to be an AA???? If this does turn out to be a hate crime, Trayvon's age could be considered. Thanks for your
suggestion I've also been wanting to tell you, though we rarely agree with each other, I really enjoy reading your posts Sometimes what you have written has made me look at certain things differently.

 

[Karmady]

I believe Trayvon does not qualify to be a member for a proctected class, other then being a AA, he is not poor, nor is he uneducated, but then again maybe all he needs is to be an AA???? If this does turn out to be a hate crime, Trayvon's age could be considered. Thanks for your
suggestion I've also been wanting to tell you, though we rarely agree with each other, I really enjoy reading your posts Sometimes what you have written has made me look at certain things differently.

Actually, I don't think being poor or uneducated puts you in a special class for hate crimes, but being AA certainly would if that's what motivated the crime. I also think that his age may be an enhancement element, but I don't know that for a fact and don't have time to look it up right now.

And thanks for the nice words. I appreciate that. I know my manner of thinking and communication style are not that warm and fuzzy lol. And If someone also disagrees with what I'm saying, it can make for some strong negative feelings. I appreciate your posts as well and, please know that, even if it doesn't seem that way at times, I can see the other side of the debate

 

[Reader]

NRA ends silence and comes out fighting for stand-your-ground laws

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/02/nra-stand-your-ground-law

The National Rifle Association has begun a rearguard action to shore up the controversial "stand-your-ground" laws that it has promoted across America, in the wake of the eruption of public anger over the killing in Florida of the unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin.........

A Guardian survey found that states which have stand-your-ground laws as well as weak gun controls have seen a sharp rise in civilian justifiable homicides.........

The NRA's re-entry into the billowing debate on gun laws may not be coincidental in its timing. This week a 19-member task force appointed by the governor of Florida, Rick Scott, has begun deliberations over whether the stand-your-ground law should be changed in the wake of the Martin shooting.

The panel is heavily weighted in favour of the pro-gun lobby. It is led by Florida's deputy governor, Jennifer Carroll, who sponsored the passage of the law through the state legislature.

More at link....

 

[vlpate]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article1222930.ece

This article is dated 4/1/12 but I think it's apt for this thread:

Here is a list of 11 cases similar to Trayvon's and other good information:

http://tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/main

Great example, as it relates to this case: http://tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_120

 

[AngelWings444]

Great example, as it relates to this case: http://tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_120

snipped from article:

"The encounter turned deadly when a drunken Landes began beating Podany. The driver testified that his friend was beating up Podany in a one-sided fight"

Landes was the guy who was shot dead. He was drunk and beating up Poday in a "one-sided fight".

IMO - this is not a "great example" and is not even close to the Zimmerman/Martin case. Trayvon was walking home from 7-11 with nothing more than an ice-tea and skittles. He was NOT drunk! The "fight", if there was one, doesn't seem one-sided, but I won't go into that, there are other threads.

Apples/Oranges.

 

[vlpate]

snipped from article:

"The encounter turned deadly when a drunken Landes began beating Podany. The driver testified that his friend was beating up Podany in a one-sided fight"

Landes was the guy who was shot dead. He was drunk and beating up Poday in a "one-sided fight".

IMO - this is not a "great example" and is not even close to the Zimmerman/Martin case. Trayvon was walking home from 7-11 with nothing more than an ice-tea and skittles. He was NOT drunk! The fight doesn't seem one-sided, but I won't go into that, there are other threads.

Apples/Oranges.

I don't know that he was or wasn't under the influence of anything. It relates in that Podany had been following the truck to get a license number, and the fight was one-sided. Given the words of the funeral director, it was one-sided. Closely relates IMO

 

[vlpate]

snipped from article:

"The encounter turned deadly when a drunken Landes began beating Podany. The driver testified that his friend was beating up Podany in a one-sided fight"

Landes was the guy who was shot dead. He was drunk and beating up Poday in a "one-sided fight".

IMO - this is not a "great example" and is not even close to the Zimmerman/Martin case. Trayvon was walking home from 7-11 with nothing more than an ice-tea and skittles. He was NOT drunk! The "fight", if there was one, doesn't seem one-sided, but I won't go into that, there are other threads.

Apples/Oranges.

As regards iced tea and skittles, I've never figured out what that has to do with anything besides the media trying to portray him as a little kid. GZ was just going to Target for milk. Does that make him less threatening?

 

[Karmady]

snipped from article:

"The encounter turned deadly when a drunken Landes began beating Podany. The driver testified that his friend was beating up Podany in a one-sided fight"

Landes was the guy who was shot dead. He was drunk and beating up Poday in a "one-sided fight".

IMO - this is not a "great example" and is not even close to the Zimmerman/Martin case. Trayvon was walking home from 7-11 with nothing more than an ice-tea and skittles. He was NOT drunk! The fight doesn't seem one-sided, but I won't go into that, there are other threads.

Apples/Oranges.

I think the point is that everything leading up to the physical altercation was irrelevant. Doesn't matter who had a weapon. Doesn't matter who followed, chased or pursued who or why. Doesn't matter whether the NW "protocol" was violated. Doesn't matter whether Trayvon had "skittles and an iced tea." All that matters is who started the physical altercation and what kind of force was used by whom for purposes of SYG. I don't know if this is a published decision that is binding precedent in Florida, but I guarantee that the law will be applied consistently in this case with how it has been applied in others -- O'Mara will make sure that his client doesn't get "special" negative treatment. jmo

eta: oh, and the State's investigator has already testified that they have no idea who started the physical altercation and we not heard of any possible evidence of who started it. jmo

 

[Karmady]

As regards iced tea and skittles, I've never figured out what that has to do with anything besides the media trying to portray him as a little kid. GZ was just going to Target for milk. Does that make him less threatening?

I liken it to a campaign or advertising slogan. jmo

 

[AngelWings444]

I don't know that he was or wasn't under the influence of anything. It relates in that Podany had been following the truck to get a license number, and the fight was one-sided. Given the words of the funeral director, it was one-sided. Closely relates IMO

So, we are believing the funeral director now? So wait, Trayvon might have been under the influence? I'm trying to catch up...

I understand that Podany followed because the other guy was speeding through the neighborhood. Other than following, which is exactly what GZ did, IMO, these cases aren't close.

I believe SYG should have been used in the case you referenced, if the facts are as reported, and we all know how that goes.

JMO, IMO

 

[Reader]

As regards iced tea and skittles, I've never figured out what that has to do with anything besides the media trying to portray him as a little kid. GZ was just going to Target for milk. Does that make him less threatening?

To me, it serves to emphasize that Trayvon was not carrying a weapon like GZ was.

 

[AngelWings444]

As regards iced tea and skittles, I've never figured out what that has to do with anything besides the media trying to portray him as a little kid. GZ was just going to Target for milk. Does that make him less threatening?

Trayvon was a kid. GZ "thought" he looked suspicious, was up to no good, blah, blah...Trayvon was simply walking home from 7-11, with nothing more than an ice-tea, skittles and a cell phone.

Back to SYG. I don't think a speeding drunk, who is beating a man in a one-sided fight, compares to this case. JMO, IMO and we shall agree to disagree.

 

[AngelWings444]

I think the point is that everything leading up to the physical altercation was irrelevant. Doesn't matter who had a weapon. Doesn't matter who followed, chased or pursued who or why. Doesn't matter whether the NW "protocol" was violated. Doesn't matter whether Trayvon had "skittles and an iced tea." All the matters is who started the physical altercation and what kind of force was used by whom for purposes of SYG. I don't know if this is a published decision that is binding precedent in Florida, but I guarantee that the law will be applied consistently in this case with how it has been applied in others -- O'Mara will make sure that his client doesn't get "special" negative treatment. jmo

eta: oh, and the State's investigator has already testified that they have no idea who started the physical altercation and we not heard of any possible evidence of who started it. jmo

The State charged GZ with 2nd degree murder. The same prosecutor said GZ's statements weren't accurate to the evidence. So, we are back to that..the evidence. Soon, I hope. :seeya: