Florida's Stand Your Ground Law

[LambChop]

Maybe this case has a special purpose. Some of these cases coming back up again for review by the public may make people realize that this law is not being used as it was originally intended. It appears it's just getting out of control. If you kill the person you are arguning with and there are no witnesses to say you were wrong where is the incentive not to shoot to kill someone you are angry with. It's almost making killing a national sport from some of the reactions I'm seeing and that is not good for those gun owners who are responsible citizens. jmo

 

[BiancaS]

The law does not require that both people be armed. Unarmed people kill people all the time. If Trayvon had his hand over GZ's mouth, as has been stated, and had he kept his hand over his mouth and asphyxiated him, he'd still be just as dead as if TM had been "armed". JMO

And that's a really BIG IF!!! MOO.

 

[BiancaS]

http://secondchancecampaign.org/card/

Mother's Day message from Sybrina Fulton, please sign if you agree.

 

[gxm]

Maybe this case has a special purpose. Some of these cases coming back up again for review by the public may make people realize that this law is not being used as it was originally intended. It appears it's just getting out of control. If you kill the person you are arguning with and there are no witnesses to say you were wrong where is the incentive not to shoot to kill someone you are angry with. It's almost making killing a national sport from some of the reactions I'm seeing and that is not good for those gun owners who are responsible citizens. jmo

I hope so. It would be a nice memorial to TM if a good hard look was taken at current gun and SYG laws, not just in Florida but around the country. It's just not right. Taking another life should not be such a gray area. It should be clear as day that the person claiming SYG or self defense had no other option.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[Reader]

Interesting remarks from a south Fl. defense attorney on SYG:

Florida's Stand Your Ground Law Explained

http://www.southfloridacriminallawy...das-stand-your-ground-law-explained.html#more

Excerpts:

..........Zimmerman may try to use Florida's Stand Your Ground Law as his defense. As more information comes to light though, Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law may not even apply given the facts of this case. This controversial law has drawn a great deal of criticism throughout the nation though it is somewhat misunderstood by the public. A full reading and review of the actual text of the law and the other laws it cites to (Florida Statutes 776.012, 776.013, 776.031) is needed to fully understand it.

Under Florida's stand your ground law, a person is immune from criminal prosecution when using justifiable force to protect oneself from another persons use of imminent unlawful force against them. The key here is that the force used to defend yourself must be "justifiable". This means that the force must be reasonable in relation to the threatened force. For instance, if someone attacks you with non-deadly force, such as their fists, you may not defend yourself with deadly force. On the other hand, if someone threatens you with deadly force or great bodily harm, such as a gun or a knife, you can use deadly force in response if you believe it is "reasonably" necessary.

More at link.....


I'm not saying they are correct but they are defense lawyers experienced in using the SYG law....

 

[LambChop]

I feel the SYG law's intention was that when you find yourself in a situation where there is no way out of a threat of death that you can you deadly force, not that you have to. Anyone in that situation would know the difference. But unless you are a police officer it should never include you going after an innocent person because somehow you perceived they were up to something criminal. Even police cannot arrest you if they think you might be thinking about breaking into a home. GZ was wrong, very wrong and had he listened, TM would still be alive today. jmo

 

[Reader]

Corey: Jax Woman Shot in Anger, Not Fear, She'll Get 20 Years

http://www.wctv.tv/news/headlines/C...er_Not_Fear_Shell_Get_20_Years_151121065.html


Angela Corey, the special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin killing, says the "stand your ground" law doesn't apply in the case of a Jacksonville woman who pleaded self-defense for a shot fired during a 2010 domestic dispute in her home. Marissa Alexander, a 31-year old mother of three, is scheduled to be sentenced on Friday. After being convicted of aggravated assault charges, she faces a mandatory sentence of 20 years............."She was not in fear." Alexander invoked the "stand your ground" law in her unsuccessful defense, but Corey said the facts don’t support that claim.

More at link....

 

[cityslick]

I feel the SYG law's intention was that when you find yourself in a situation where there is no way out of a threat of death that you can you deadly force, not that you have to. Anyone in that situation would know the difference. But unless you are a police officer it should never include you going after an innocent person because somehow you perceived they were up to something criminal. Even police cannot arrest you if they think you might be thinking about breaking into a home. GZ was wrong, very wrong and had he listened, TM would still be alive today. jmo

Judge must of thought the bag of 3 radios was life threatening in this case

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2717572/miami-dade-issues-ruling-in-stand.html

The judge said that he had a right to chase the thief to retrieve his property and once the thief swung the bag of stolen radios at him, he was justified in fearing for his life and stabbing him. Ironically, the man then took all of the radios not just his own and sold two of the stolen radios so he too was a thief.

 

[Karmady]

Judge must of thought the bag of 3 radios was life threatening in this case

Or fists in the case of the drunk passenger shot by the po'd neighbor on a bicycle with a gun.

 

[wishuwerehere]

I wonder if some form of the “clean hands doctrine” will be brought up by the prosecution at the SYG hearing. (I realize this is brought up in civil lawsuits.) How can Zimmerman ask for protection under the law (SYG defense) if he himself does not have clean hands? Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch captain and according to the rules these watchmen are only to observe and report. If Zimmeman was not acting in good faith (unclean hands) at the time of the incident, how can he be granted immunity with SYG?

jmo

 

[sleonardelli]

Let me ask you a hypothetical question in this context. Suppose for a moment, that there was an encounter between GZ and TM "where the sidewalks meet" along the lines as stated by RZ Sr. after talking to his son AND watching the reenactment w/LE the following day, in which TM gained the upper hand. Suppose TM then DID see GZ draw his gun and took off running, for half a football field's distance, to the area Attorney O'Mara said the body was found in.

Do you think GZ would have been legally justified in chasing him down with his gun drawn and killing him?

Interest theory!

BTW,

:yourock:

 

[AJ Noiter]

I wonder if some form of the “clean hands doctrine” will be brought up by the prosecution at the SYG hearing. (I realize this is brought up in civil lawsuits.) How can Zimmerman ask for protection under the law (SYG defense) if he himself does not have clean hands? Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch captain and according to the rules these watchmen are only to observe and report. If Zimmeman was not acting in good faith (unclean hands) at the time of the incident, how can he be granted immunity with SYG?

jmo

Two things:
- NW doesn't over-ride your right to self defense, whether you're on patrol or not (and Mr. Zimmerman was not patrolling this night)
- Violating a NW "rule" isn't illegal. It may get you removed from the program, sure, but in no way is it illegal to not follow a rule.

Basically, ignore the whole NW program because it's rather irrelevant.

 

[wishuwerehere]

Two things:
- NW doesn't over-ride your right to self defense, whether you're on patrol or not (and Mr. Zimmerman was not patrolling this night)
- Violating a NW "rule" isn't illegal. It may get you removed from the program, sure, but in no way is it illegal to not follow a rule.

Basically, ignore the whole NW program because it's rather irrelevant.

Totally disagree about the NW program being irrelevant. I understand that the defense would like it to be.

And I do believe that Zimmerman was patrolling. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been following Trayvon while driving his vehicle. He reported a suspicion. Which is what NW does. He did not report an actual crime. I conclude that Zimmerman was acting within his role of NW, and did not do so in good faith.

Can the judge find that SYG is not relevant if it is concluded Zimmerman was not acting in good faith?

 

[sleonardelli]

I'm curious to know what part of Florida's SYG statute is most bothersome to people. Is it the part that allows deadly force to prevent great bodily harm or the part that says no duty to retreat if in a place were he or she has the right to be?


http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

Even though concealed weapon holders are peaceful and law-abiding citizens, we have to go out of the way to avoid conflict. Just because we can legally carry a concealed weapon does not make us police officers. The same holds true for situations where deadly force would be justified. Just because we can legally shoot does not mean we must ALWAYS shoot.

http://myweaponspermit.com/top-five-concealed-carry-mistakes/

IMO, from the "evidence" I've seen to date, GZ was "acting" like he had the authority of a police officer when he CHOOSE to follow Trayvon. He could've easily avoided a conflict by never getting out of his car in the first place! According to FT “I think any time you use a weapon, there are certain anger issues working,” Taaffe said. “I think he had fed-up issues. He was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it anymore.” IMO, that sounds like "depraved mind". SYG, as currently written, is too broad and gives license to kill to the wrong people. I also believe it's NOT applied evenly in all cases. Sure, there have been cases where SYG applies but I don't think it does in this case.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...s-shooter?lite

 

[sleonardelli]

Corey: Jax Woman Shot in Anger, Not Fear, She'll Get 20 Years

http://www.wctv.tv/news/headlines/C...er_Not_Fear_Shell_Get_20_Years_151121065.html


Angela Corey, the special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin killing, says the "stand your ground" law doesn't apply in the case of a Jacksonville woman who pleaded self-defense for a shot fired during a 2010 domestic dispute in her home. Marissa Alexander, a 31-year old mother of three, is scheduled to be sentenced on Friday. After being convicted of aggravated assault charges, she faces a mandatory sentence of 20 years............."She was not in fear." Alexander invoked the "stand your ground" law in her unsuccessful defense, but Corey said the facts don’t support that claim.

More at link....

Having read Marissa's story, I think AC got it wrong this time. When the evidence enters the public realm, I may rethink my support of her decision in the GZ case.

 

[gxm]

Having read Marissa's story, I think AC got it wrong this time. When the evidence enters the public realm, I may rethink my support of her decision in the GZ case.

I am absolutely furious with this sentence. Unbelievable. She fired a warning shot and no one was injured. Absolutely unbelievable! I can't type what I think about AC right now or I'll get a TO!

 

[highflyer]

I am absolutely furious with this sentence. Unbelievable. She fired a warning shot and no one was injured. Absolutely unbelievable! I can't type what I think about AC right now or I'll get a TO!

Is weird. Two children were standing by the man she was firing the warning shot toward.

 

[jaded cat]

Two things:
- NW doesn't over-ride your right to self defense, whether you're on patrol or not (and Mr. Zimmerman was not patrolling this night)
- Violating a NW "rule" isn't illegal. It may get you removed from the program, sure, but in no way is it illegal to not follow a rule.

Basically, ignore the whole NW program because it's rather irrelevant.

There are no "scheduled patrols" for being in NW. Ours certainly doesn't work that way. There are, however, very specific guidelines NW volunteers are asked to follow. GZ violated at least 2 of those guidelines. That's why we're here.

 

[LambChop]

Judge must of thought the bag of 3 radios was life threatening in this case

Maybe they were all playing rap music. jmo

 

[LambChop]

Having read Marissa's story, I think AC got it wrong this time. When the evidence enters the public realm, I may rethink my support of her decision in the GZ case.

Ever stop to think she was the abruser in their relationship. It certainly happens and I'm sure those two children were interviewed. I think we would have to know the history to determine if the sentence was fair. jmo