FOIA information request (George Waters) info and questions.

[Skully]

and I guess this is another one of those the detective assigned to Annas 'open case' won't do anything unless we find solid evidence.

Is there a way we can confirm they might have records from 73 if we got LE to contact them? Even on the same letter head we had to get them to inquire about the passport issue. It doesn't take long to type print and mail a letter.

A letter from LE might find records older than 30 years old that may not have been destroyed. We've found odd ball stuff like that in other cases which should have been destroyed but was not when we can get LE to make contact.

I say we just get LE to send the letter and see what happens.... we might get lucky and they may find records older than 30 years old.

jmo

Annamom,

Does Anna have an FBI or LE agent still working the case or any leads? If so that is who the letter or call should start with. I would see if TWA has flight information from Jan to Feb of 1973. I would also say to get the American Embassy a call from FBI and ask about records there. I don't believe any of us will get them to move on this unless as the consulate said, we are LE and this is a police matter.

I will be happy to provide email address, letters I got or anything that would help.

 

[Skully]

Bern, I already sent off everything except the Brody paper. Thank you so much for doing all this phoning and copying. Yes, I did get everything. We were in a bit of a panic last week, trying to get ready for my niece's "destination" wedding, where we had to practice, pack up the instruments, etc., along with our regular chores. I wish you'd put up a link to the Haleigh information. I'd like to read it, but I'll never be able to find it without a link.:blushing:

Maybe Cubby could provide a link to you in a PM. I don't know the rules here and don't want to get a time out.....I really need to be here.

 

[Cubby]

What Haleigh information are we talking about needing a link for?

 

[OzzieMum]

Hi All,

I just had a thought and Bern, it was while I was reading the reading you did on Anna, quite thought provoking. It was the part where you said something along the lines of think of the alternative.

Italy is the only country that has really been implicated, via the squibb notes. I am wondering if Italy has a national LE agency like the FBI/CIA and if so maybe we should contact them and send the information on Anna to them and explain the reasons why we think that Anna could have been taken to Italy. We are trying to get info from the FBI so I'm thinking it wouldn't hurt to hit it from the other end as well. You never know what the Italian authorities may already have on their files.

I think if we do this it needs to be thoroughly thought over so all relevant information is included. We might only get one shot at it.

Let me know what you think.

 

[Skully]

Hi All,

I just had a thought and Bern, it was while I was reading the reading you did on Anna, quite thought provoking. It was the part where you said something along the lines of think of the alternative.

Italy is the only country that has really been implicated, via the squibb notes. I am wondering if Italy has a national LE agency like the FBI/CIA and if so maybe we should contact them and send the information on Anna to them and explain the reasons why we think that Anna could have been taken to Italy. We are trying to get info from the FBI so I'm thinking it wouldn't hurt to hit it from the other end as well. You never know what the Italian authorities may already have on their files.

I think if we do this it needs to be thoroughly thought over so all relevant information is included. We might only get one shot at it.

Let me know what you think.

See I knew I needed to post that reading, LOL... I think that is a good Idea. For one, if a child is taken to another country, how does the parents explain the child? They have to say they adopted the child, so in this case the adoption would be a child from the U.S. and wouldn't they have to have paperwork or permission to bring in a child? I ask Cubby today about a dream I pm her with, if she still had it? She doesn't, but I remember it and will post it there. The thing I remember is she had a stolen identity in the dream. She was also around the age of 11 or so. She had elderly parents for her age. So keep in tune with this thread, they have to explain where she came from to family, friends or outsiders; school, doctors.... Could she have someone Else's identity. A child that passed away in a family?

I think that is what the reading is saying, think outside of what we have been doing and I think this is a great idea, but we have to tread carefully. Maybe we brainstorm and come up with a plan?

 

[Cubby]

I am going to further reply to my memories of your reading in the dreams, visions.. thread......

 

[OzzieMum]

See I knew I needed to post that reading, LOL... I think that is a good Idea. For one, if a child is taken to another country, how does the parents explain the child? They have to say they adopted the child, so in this case the adoption would be a child from the U.S. and wouldn't they have to have paperwork or permission to bring in a child? I ask Cubby today about a dream I pm her with, if she still had it? She doesn't, but I remember it and will post it there. The thing I remember is she had a stolen identity in the dream. She was also around the age of 11 or so. She had elderly parents for her age. So keep in tune with this thread, they have to explain where she came from to family, friends or outsiders; school, doctors.... Could she have someone Else's identity. A child that passed away in a family?

I think that is what the reading is saying, think outside of what we have been doing and I think this is a great idea, but we have to tread carefully. Maybe we brainstorm and come up with a plan?

Thanks Bern.

I totally agree that we would need to tread carefully and be very clear and concise in our request.

I have been thinking about this at work today (lucky I can multi task ) and because it seems at this point we are on track with getting whatever info we can from the FBI, we should wait until those steps are complete. If there is any info forthcoming from the FBI, we need to be able to include this in our initial letter/email. Having said that, I think the brainstorming should start now, this will give our wonderful sleuthers time to think about what we could ask etc.

I think we need somewhere to compile and co-ordinate any suggestions/questions/info that we would like to ask or provide to the authorities in Italy. Cubby, I hate to put you on the spot, but that IS your area of expertise sweety. A sticky maybe? "questions and info for the Italian authorities".

The focus thus far has been on GW, GB, MK, EW and the US, we really haven't stepped outside of that zone and I do believe that it is time to "look at the alternative".

Obviously, the letter/email will need to be sent by Annasmom, with a little help from her friends?

I would really like to hear Dr. Doogies thoughts on this. Dr. Doogie?

 

[Skully]

I don't know where to post this, but it would be a "sticky note" for later.

If BMW the lawyer was asked by the FBI to hand over any files or give any information about GW or GB, would he have to do it? If both clients are now deceased, could he give up information, if he had any, about even inquiries about adoptions? I just can't help thinking that none of this happened in a vacuum. There has to be some paper trail, or sighting of Anna going to this destination. If a child is taken abroad, you would feel safe to let her go to school, or church, or have friends. So I guess my question is, if we get someone interested again in the case, like FBI, can they make the attorney turn over any information?

 

[Annasmom]

I don't know where to post this, but it would be a "sticky note" for later.

If BMW the lawyer was asked by the FBI to hand over any files or give any information about GW or GB, would he have to do it? If both clients are now deceased, could he give up information, if he had any, about even inquiries about adoptions? I just can't help thinking that none of this happened in a vacuum. There has to be some paper trail, or sighting of Anna going to this destination. If a child is taken abroad, you would feel safe to let her go to school, or church, or have friends. So I guess my question is, if we get someone interested again in the case, like FBI, can they make the attorney turn over any information?

Maybe SherlockJr will remember telephoning this attorney--I think his name was Barry Wally. As I recall, he was retired and claimed not to remember anything having to do with GW. I believe GW had a different lawyer later on.

 

[SideKick]

Maybe SherlockJr will remember telephoning this attorney--I think his name was Barry Wally. As I recall, he was retired and claimed not to remember anything having to do with GW. I believe GW had a different lawyer later on.

Oh, he was the one who pleaded the 5th? Thank you!

 

[Annasmom]

Searching for Anna #4 appears to be locked, and I cannot find a #5, so I'll post this information here. Bern got the ball rolling on getting information under the Freedom of Information Act, and today the package came, about 40 pages, the complete police report from San Mateo County (which we have never seen, only the first few pages), plus some other correspondence in their file.

All names except mine, Anna's, and Dr. Waters' have been removed, and there is a list noting the deletions.

There are several interesting things in this information. The most interesting was that Dr. Waters told the police he was at work at the Kaiser drop-in clinic on the afternoon Anna disappeared, but we have that lab slip from the Mission Neighborhood Health Center (which is in a completely different part of the city) saying that he was there. In other words, he lied about his whereabouts the afternoon Anna disappeared. But until these documents appeared, there was no way to know this.

I will direct questions about this to Doogie or Sherlock if they are willing to field them.

 

[Skully]

Searching for Anna #4 appears to be locked, and I cannot find a #5, so I'll post this information here. Bern got the ball rolling on getting information under the Freedom of Information Act, and today the package came, about 40 pages, the complete police report from San Mateo County (which we have never seen, only the first few pages), plus some other correspondence in their file.

All names except mine, Anna's, and Dr. Waters' have been removed, and there is a list noting the deletions.

There are several interesting things in this information. The most interesting was that Dr. Waters told the police he was at work at the Kaiser drop-in clinic on the afternoon Anna disappeared, but we have that lab slip from the Mission Neighborhood Health Center (which is in a completely different part of the city) saying that he was there. In other words, he lied about his whereabouts the afternoon Anna disappeared. But until these documents appeared, there was no way to know this.

I will direct questions about this to Doogie or Sherlock if they are willing to field them.

I am so happy this effort on my part gleaned some information in this case. I received a letter from the National Archives and Records Administration stating that the FBI was correct in destroying the files I requested on George Henry Waters. I will send the letter to you Annasmom by mail, you may want to purse the matter further. I hope this new bit of information will be relayed to your new agent and maybe you can get someone to contact the Embassy in Rome to inquire further into any travel arrangements that may have occurred. I really feel Anna may be in Italy, perhaps close to Milan.

 

[SherlockJr]

Do you think someone is doing flips in their grave? Cheers to Fern for pushing this issue!!!

 

[SherlockJr]

I am so happy this effort on my part gleaned some information in this case. I received a letter from the National Archives and Records Administration stating that the FBI was correct in destroying the files I requested on George Henry Waters. I will send the letter to you Annasmom by mail, you may want to purse the matter further. I hope this new bit of information will be relayed to your new agent and maybe you can get someone to contact the Embassy in Rome to inquire further into any travel arrangements that may have occurred. I really feel Anna may be in Italy, perhaps close to Milan.

I know I've been awol for awhile, but why do you feel Anna is close to Milan?

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I don't know whether to interpet this obvious lie by Waters as evidence of involvement or attribute it to his general paranoid nature. I am leaning toward involvement. The fact that he had a receipt for the day that Anna disappeared from a different clinic - the only receipt in the BFH - tells me that he was trying to establish an cover story for his whereabouts. This may be big.

 

[SherlockJr]

I don't know whether to interpet this obvious lie by Waters as evidence of involvement or attribute it to his general paranoid nature. I am leaning toward involvement. The fact that he had a receipt for the day that Anna disappeared from a different clinic - the only receipt in the BFH - tells me that he was trying to establish an cover story for his whereabouts. This may be big.

On this report, he gives the names of two witnesses who can attest to his working at the Presbyterian Medical Clinic located at 2398 Sacramento St. on the day Anna went missing. We have an actual lab slip from Mission Neighborhood Health Center located at 240 Shotwell St. dated 1/16/1973. So, if he was involved he found or knew of two employees to cover his alibi. Of coarse the names are blacked out on the report. Another thing I noticed is the date of this report is 1/21/1973 at 0915 hrs. This would have been 5 days later on a Sunday morning? Wasn't it discussed earlier in threads that SMPD stated they were not able to locate GW for 10 days?

 

[Skully]

I know I've been awol for awhile, but why do you feel Anna is close to Milan?

Like I said, I don't have a logical reason for this, just something that popped into my head when I was working on this. I live by "hunches" and sometimes they pay off. I am hoping when the her story airs in Italy, someone will get a hunch or a memory of Anna as a young girl. Anyway, I think this is big, and I think that the agent working on this case should be interested in pursuing the idea that she could be in Italy. JMO

 

[Skully]

the funny thing about today was, I haven't been on this thread for a while. I have been tied up with other stuff. Today I turned around and looked at my clock and it was 4:44 and I remembered that Annasmom said that was her number, that Anna was born at that time of day. I said a quick prayer and ask for "Truth in this case". So I hope she see this post...... I do believe in things that can't be explained.

 

[Skully]

On this report, he gives the names of two witnesses who can attest to his working at the Presbyterian Medical Clinic located at 2398 Sacramento St. on the day Anna went missing. We have an actual lab slip from Mission Neighborhood Health Center located at 240 Shotwell St. dated 1/16/1973. So, if he was involved he found or knew of two employees to cover his alibi. Of coarse the names are blacked out on the report. Another thing I noticed is the date of this report is 1/21/1973 at 0915 hrs. This would have been 5 days later on a Sunday morning? Wasn't it discussed earlier in threads that SMPD stated they were not able to locate GW for 10 days?

Yes, neither one of them were at the hotel according to the PI. I don't remember where I read that, but he talked to the hotel manager where they lived and they were AWOL for about 10 days.

 

[SherlockJr]

It's been stated that GW was working more than on job at a time. I guess it is possible that he was working Presbyterian during the day and Mission Clinic in the evening. Joe, can you chime in here?