Following Casey's directions

[countzero]

If you look at the picture on the DC emails thread you will see there were no trees in the way. There is a fence that extends behind the first house on Hopespring which was owned by a Gonzales and the fence extends down the road to the remains site. The remains site is no where near the school but directly on the other side of that fence. In the picture you can see what looks like a car parked in the remains site area with a clear view down towards Hopespring. No trees are in the way, just a grassy area with a pond. She could have very easily parked her car their everyday waiting for her father to leave. This picture gives you a good idea of how KC could have been sitting there under the shade of the trees behind her.

Plus a neighbor had reported seeing a white car like KC's back into that area. It was a known place for her to go as a child seems perfectly natural that she would pick a familiar place to sit and watch for dad to leave. And haven't we all wondered where she would go with NO GAS. Sounds like down the street was a perfect solution. jmo

I was kidding about the camera.

Ahhhhhh, thanks for clearing that up. I was envisioning she parked her car directly in front of the tree line where Caylee was found, not further down where you are describing. Makes sense now in the morning hours for me, lol.

 

[LambChop]

Ahhhhhh, thanks for clearing that up. I was envisioning she parked her car directly in front of the tree line where Caylee was found, not further down where you are describing. Makes sense now in the morning hours for me, lol.

Caylee was found on the other side of the fence according to the pictures and drawings I've seen. In the picture in post 1127 on DC emails thread you can see what looks as if it is an auto pulled into the same area. Caylee's remains were found just beyond the area that looks like a car is parked under the trees. Very interesting picture which was taken as an aerial shot around the time Caylee went missing, June 08, I believe was the date stated. jmo

 

[countzero]

Caylee was found on the other side of the fence according to the pictures and drawings I've seen. In the picture in post 1127 on DC emails thread you can see what looks as if it is an auto pulled into the same area. Caylee's remains were found just beyond the area that looks like a car is parked under the trees. Very interesting picture which was taken as an aerial shot around the time Caylee went missing, June 08, I believe was the date stated. jmo

Ok, I just looked at the photo in think tanks post 1127. Is the yellow circle what you are talking about? Is the yellow circle on the east or west side? My brain needs N-S-E-W directions to understand this ...... I know .... but it works for me.

Don't bother yourself trying to explain it, lol. I just need to go back into that thread and re-read it again to get a better understanding. Thanks for trying though.

 

[LambChop]

On the map if you google there is Hopespring, then the Gonzales home 4701, the chain-linked fence along Suburban and then the grassy area along the tree-line where Caylee was found. She was not far from the fenced area. Almost as if someone backed their car into the area where the fence ends and dumped the body in the woods on the passenger side. The fenced in area is to keep people away from the pond, I believe.

I don't think anyone would have ever questioned this photo except someone reported seeing a car like KC's parked there. It would make sense she would not go too far from home because she had no money to pay for gas. jmo

 

[countzero]

LambChop, that helps a lot. Thanks .... off to cut grass then I will do some googling.

 

[Sparky]

Ok, I just looked at the photo in think tanks post 1127. Is the yellow circle what you are talking about? Is the yellow circle on the east or west side? My brain needs N-S-E-W directions to understand this ...... I know .... but it works for me.

Don't bother yourself trying to explain it, lol. I just need to go back into that thread and re-read it again to get a better understanding. Thanks for trying though.

If you go here you can see some great aerial shots that include the memorial. Move the arrows around and you can see lots of views. At the top left you can flip the photo around and see it from different directions. They were taken March 2009. HTH

http://paarcgis2.ocpafl.org/ObliqueView/default.aspx?pid=302313129000021

 

[LambChop]

If you go here you can see some great aerial shots that include the memorial. Move the arrows around and you can see lots of views. At the top left you can flip the photo around and see it from different directions. They were taken March 2009. HTH

http://paarcgis2.ocpafl.org/ObliqueView/default.aspx?pid=302313129000021

Thanks for that picture. You can really see the area clearly. Some of our posters have done research on the pings. I think I remember that someone said that KC's phone pings for the 15th, night of the reported "argument", were around the home even though it was reported KC left in a huff. If she went down to that spot to text Tony and Caylee was upset could KC have lost it and killed her at that point. With all the lying from this family I no longer believe GA saw them last on the 16th.

Just throwing this out. What if KC wanted to call Tony and Caylee is in the back crying for her grandmother and the more KC yelled the louder Caylee got. How do you shut up a child when you want to make a call to a bf who isn't too crazy about the fact that you have a child in the first place. Do you let her cry while you are trying to talk and take a chance on losing a relationship or would you attempt to stop her from crying..... jmo

 

[LCoastMom]

I know a lot of people think Casey is not that smart, but you dont have to be a genius to kill someone, and speaking of geniuses Einsten was one of the smartest men alive and he tie his own shoes, and no I'm not saying KC is a genius, I'm just saying it doesn't take a genius and even geniuses can be limited with simple tasks such as disposing of a body, but I have often wondered if KC wanted to get caught. Maybe this is a game to her, I had a thread about that a while back.

Butterfly - I never thought Caylee was supposed to "stay lost".

KC had a situation. A stench in her car that would not quit, even after she got rid her small "problem". She dumped the car in a public lot, on the business side of the street, the car was obviously supposed to disappear - She had dumped Caylee just feet from the road, along a street that gets regular foot traffic, 9 mos a year. Had she left Caylee a month earlier, some little kid with a lot of moxie, would have investigated the odor.

Maybe she didn't realize the odor coming from the side of the road would dissipate, be completely gone (and under water) before school started again. If she tossed the bag from the side of the road, as was theorized, there was no way she could have anticipated that spot filling in with water that lasted for 6 months!

She never thought she would have to come up with a real person, with a real phone number and a real address - it was a private number, lots of people have them (not so much babysitters). She never realized her nonexistent job was going to be questioned.

KC's behavior was totally consistent with a certain type of single, young mom, on vacation - the kid was having a good time with the nanny. Suddenly her baby turns up, deceased and the trusted babysitter/friend is missing! "Oh no! Poor KC, she lost her friend and child in a cruel twist of a who done it." But she was prepared to be strong and to go on with her life, like Caylee would have wanted.

Once it was announced Caylee was missing, there were no tears, no fear - When she realized it made her look bad, to have given her child to a questionable person, suddenly Caylee was taken by force as KC and Caylee played in the park. Then she spent a month looking for Caylee under barstools - she continued with the ridiculous story, that even she would have been hard pressed to believe. Because her original thoughts on the way it was going to go down never happened. CA is not able to change modes. She reminds me very much of a Borderline Personality - but not particularly smart.

 

[Reagan]

If you look at the map that DC sent it shows with push pins 3/4 of a T

Snip

Sorry for the stupid question, but what map? What'd I miss?

 

[Reagan]

Nevermind, found it!
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5522729#post5522729"]2010.08.05 Dominic Casey emails - Page 45 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[carrie]

Early on when Casey was visited by Lee in jail, they had a conversation, I don't remember word for word the conversation but it was along the lines of, "I have told them everything, I told you, I told mom, and dad, you have found out more than they have, if they don't follow my directions to a "T" I can't help help them, or something along those lines not exact qoute, but what stood out to me and has bothered me every since Caylee was found was the "in my heart she is still close" and the "following my directions to the T" and "I dropped her off between 9 and 1 with Zeinida Gonzalos".
When Caylee was found she was close to home, she had also been dropped off between 9-1 between Zeinada and Gonzalas, these things we have already established that she was giving directions on. That only leaves one other part to her directions not yet resolved and does it hold more evidence? The part I'm talking about is following her directions to the T..... If you look at the map that DC sent it shows with push pins 3/4 of a T, ( I am convinced that the abandoned house is tied into this somehow), If you look at a map as a crow flies from the Anthony house to the remain site makes a line then cross over to the abandoned house makes a 7 if you finished the top part of the T where would that lead and would there be evidence there? Was Casey really giving directions on how to find Caylee and they were finally starting to put it together and thats why DC was searching the house and the woods? Did LE ever search the abandoned house?

I hope this makes since, I really do think that Casey was giving directions on where Caylee was. I think she planned this and had already figured all this out. It can't be a coincidence that ZG owns the two properties with the 9 and 1 last digit mailing address. The abandoned house can't be a coincidence, KC stating shes close and her remains being close is not a coincidence. the locations making a partial T can't be a coincidence either. Whats your thoughts on this?

Seriously folks. Come on now. This really is giving Casey way too much credit. Yes, I agree there are some strange, and interesting, coincidences in this case but Casey isn't that smart, nor does she have the foresight to have planned it all out ahead of time and then be giving coded directions.

Besides, if she wanted them to locate little Caylee's remains, she wouldnt have needed to use code when she was out of bail and could talk to her Mom and Dad and Lee in private. If she wanted them to find Caylee, why not just tell them where she was.

Also, if she planned ahead of time and worked out details to the degree being suggested here, surely she wouldn't have dumped Caylee furious so near the road and so near home.

 

[LambChop]

KC likes to lie....we've seen that. KC likes to speak in code....we've also seen that. In the end if you call her out on a lie she will tell you it's the truth because there is always an element of truth behind the lie. She isn't a good liar but it's that element of truth that fooled people close to her that she was telling the truth or some version of it. KC had a lot of friends who knew she lied, they just never took it seriously. jmo

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Seriously folks. Come on now. This really is giving Casey way too much credit. Yes, I agree there are some strange, and interesting, coincidences in this case but Casey isn't that smart, nor does she have the foresight to have planned it all out ahead of time and then be giving coded directions.

Besides, if she wanted them to locate little Caylee's remains, she wouldnt have needed to use code when she was out of bail and could talk to her Mom and Dad and Lee in private. If she wanted them to find Caylee, why not just tell them where she was.

Also, if she planned ahead of time and worked out details to the degree being suggested here, surely she wouldn't have dumped Caylee furious so near the road and so near home.

BBM..Exactly Carrie. There was no need for speaking in code, you tell them exactly what you did and where you put Caylee.

In light of knowing Caylee was found with duct tape over her airways, ICA will never admit to wrong doing. She knows how badly that looks (and why the DP is facing her) so she will fight till the end and claim innocence.

All I know, it's not one little piece of evidence that will get a guilty verdict, it all the evidence in their totality that will get that guilty verdict. IMO, the hardest hurdle to overcome is that 31 days she didn't alert authorties of an allegedly missing or abducted child. She has to pick a story and stick with it..JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Seriously folks. Come on now. This really is giving Casey way too much credit. Yes, I agree there are some strange, and interesting, coincidences in this case but Casey isn't that smart, nor does she have the foresight to have planned it all out ahead of time and then be giving coded directions.

Besides, if she wanted them to locate little Caylee's remains, she wouldnt have needed to use code when she was out of bail and could talk to her Mom and Dad and Lee in private. If she wanted them to find Caylee, why not just tell them where she was.

Also, if she planned ahead of time and worked out details to the degree being suggested here, surely she wouldn't have dumped Caylee furious so near the road and so near home.

I totally agree. She wouldn't be able to think of anything that complex. Plus, why would she? If she wanted them to know where Caylee was, she could tell them when she was out on bail, or any time she was at home during that wonderful time when she was in and out of jail on a weekly basis.

Plus, what did she care anyway? Cindy was going to stand by her no matter what, and she had no love or respect for her family - she wouldn't sugar coat anything she'd just tell them what she wanted them to know and let Cindy handle it imo. She obviously dumped the body as an afterthought in true Casey style - lazy, close to home, a familiar place, and not too much effort. It was probably the first place that was reasonably concealed as she drove around and therefore became the dumping ground.

 

[LambChop]

Maybe KC wanted Mom and Dad to relocate the remains because KC did not have a lot of time to think about where the body should be placed. KC obviously knows CA would do anything for her and keep it a secret. Giving the family little clues she thought that at least LA would get it. KC EXPECTS her family to clean up her messes and we can see them doing it. She has in the past and she expects it now and will continue into the future..... Don't forget, Dad is ex-LE and he would know how to get rid of the remains. jmo

 

[seagull65]

I always thought it was an unbelievable coincidence too, about the two houses that back up to the remains site, one having the owner named F.Gonz (not Fz-Gz but other unique long F name pluz Gz), the other having a resident named Z. The fact also that the house at the end, the F-Gonz house, was for sale, I don't know if it was already unoccupied at the time but always wondered. I'm not sure when the tenant named Z at the other house was there or had left. Also, when people refer to the "abandoned house", are we talking about the Brackenwood house? Is this where DC was digging? I always thought it was, the one with the coke machines etc? Always wondered about these houses and names, and no, I never personally saw anything come out showing that LE investigated these houses or their yards with the dogs or anything, unless I just missed it..... during the conversations with KMTC about the lady named Gz in the neighborhood the detective mentioned that they were already in contact with these people or something or knew where the house was, but I never saw any documents come out so far regarding any searches or interviews at those houses

 

[seagull65]

I can't really see Casey being able to hang out at these houses, i.e. park near there watching for her dad to leave, because he would see her car, unless like someone here said she had access to the garage of one of the homes. Same with parking right by the remains site. There's local traffic driving through there pretty regularly, at least from what I've seen (last visit Aug 2010), and the only place you could pull in might be into the clearing between the wooden fence and trees, but the car would be pretty visible there certainly to anyone driving by on Suburban and even anyone exiting Hopespring onto Suburban heading toward Chickasaw, no way to hide the car there. Or, why pull in around the bend, wouldn't be able to see her dad leave.... if she was in the habit of just parking around there to hang out or if she pulled around there on the occasion of disposing of the body, why not dispose of the body around there then, more wilderness and deeper areas around the bend in that area, etc.

 

[seagull65]

Now, the whole thing about this supposedly being Casey's hang out and burial ground for her pets that's been repeated so often in the media, actually as you guys know, what KMTC told LE and later tabloid magazines was that she and friend Jessica had buried their own pets there and that Casey had been with them on a couple of these occasions. Casey may also have buried a deceased pet (fish?) there at some point IIRC. But it really sounded from KMTC's own description that this area was actually much more of interest to her than to Casey, she said Casey used to go there with her and Jessica for a while one summer for picnics as middle-schoolers but then no more when Casey and Jessica got busy with school activities like track practice, but she, KMTC, would continue to go there alone.
The lady KMTC also mentioned to LE, the Gz on her street, she says she personally knows this woman and referred to her as "Mama Yvette", It sounds like it could conceivably be a nickname for the F.Gz lady, owner of the last house, Yvette not being her actual name but a nickname for the unusual first name. At least I'm not aware of another person with that name on the street.

 

[seagull65]

Personally I think if Casey were the killer that would be the last place she would dump a body, she was all over town, if she were the killer why not dump the body anywhere else. Everyplace you drive in Orlando there are overgrown areas and swamps and ponds where you could throw a bag over a fence or into trees or water, places not near houses, places NO ONE would come across it. Instead of right by neighborhood fences right there in her own neighborhood. Absolutely no need to dump the body in that area. Even if she'd put it there in an intoxicated state or some kind of panic or hurry, I think surely she would have moved it from there soon after to a better location. Many other things that make me think she may not have been the one who dumped the body, but won't get into those here of course.
Still, I have always continued to wonder about the name-coincidence having to do with the last two houses, etc. Why would she tell a story about someone with these particular same names babysitting Caylee? etc. It still makes me wonder. Also, why KMTC would jump to the conclusion at such an early time that Caylee might be deceased and her body in that location, called LE up to pointedly tell them as much. IIRC, didn't DC tell someone that a young woman from the neighborhood had told him she'd seen Casey's vehicle backed up in that area, I always wondered if KMTC was the young woman he was referring to who had told him that?

 

[seagull65]

As far as checking places familiar to us and places I told Mom about....I still wonder about that, too. The first part seems like she's referring to the stories she'd told Cindy during the "missing weeks", i.e. the story about Hard Rock Cafe, Z being in the car accident, the stuff about her and JH maybe wanting to be a family and going up to JAX etc. Not as close to home as the houses at the end of the street but....

I think it's really interesting to reconsider the places she was telling LE to look too, as crazy as they seem. For example, the places she mentioned dropping Caylee off with Z in the past. She mentioned they were in a house at one time in Andover Lakes.....where else did she mention. A house near Conway and Michigan....wait, that's where Sawgrass is actually located isn't it? She mentioned an apartment in the building across from JP's place.... I keep wondering, were these all just crazy delusions or hallucinations or confusion of hers, or was she trying to get them to look at particular places but was afraid to come out with it? Also the way she went on about checking for video of people coming through the turnstiles at Universal, thinking Z would have brought Caylee through the turnstiles there, etc.