For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

[txsvicki]

I just don't get it. Three people who attended the trial on most days were interviewed by a talking head, and they all agreed that they would have voted the same way. It was the barney fife guy, the heavy set blond who going to school for criminal justice, and another guy. Have we all been duped by the media all this time by watching the sensational while there never was enough proof for premeditated first degree murder? How can people say that it was not murder or even child neglect/abuse. Do they believe it was an accident that happened in only 2 hours time that resulted in immediate sure death with no calls for help, or that the whole family covered it up?

 

[RANCH]

That did kinda fall huh? ok :doh: innuendo didn'twork
If at the time he didn't know for sure who the father of Caylee was. IF he feared it might be him...
Casey has him by the nose hair. Piss her off she is taking the kid and turning him in.
I'm sure he mentioned the fight the night before with CA.
I'm sure CA insisted that he set her straight.
I am beginning to surmise only Caylee was there Casey had left alone.
However CA tells her mom Casey left with Caylee that night. GA says Casey wasn't home at midnight but she magically appears after CA leaves. CA says she hears them breathing through the door. GA says Caylee saw CA before she went to work. I really wonder if they were even at home! The cell phone and computer put her there.

I hope your not saying that George or Lee were the Father of Caylee? There is NO proof of that.

 

[JBean]

I hope your not saying that George or Lee were the Father of Caylee? There is NO proof of that.

It has been proven to be physically impossible.

 

[Controversialist]

I do not believe there was duct tape over her mouth and nose. It was NOT proven. I don't care what Dr G said. The media, prosecution, and all over this forum stated that as a fact. But the fact is that the tape was stuck in ONE side of her hair. It could have just been garbage already there. It could have been used to close the canvas bag. It could have been anywhere and once RK disturbed the remains by lifting the bag and "tilting" the skull, you just could not rely on that evidence. It's tainted/contaminated, period. Even without RK, this was flooded, animals were feeding and scattering. Anything could have repositioned that tape. And that super imposed little video was crazy IMO. Even it showed/ moved the tape to several locations to show that over mouth and nose wasn't the ony position the tape could have been in. JMOO

IMO, that fourth piece of duct tape found among the remains was close to being a smoking gun.

IIRC, this tape was found in a still intact loop, with fine hairs attached, consistent with possible hairs from a child's arms or wrists. I also recall it had red fibers, attached possibly consistent with Caylee's clothing.

IMO, if the state had proved that this tape was on Caylee, they would know this tape was not used to manage postmortem decomposition. There would be no need to have tape on Caylee's wrists for that purpose.

We would be reduced to ICA and/or GA putting tape on Caylee's wrists to cover up the pool accident. Perhaps someone could explain to me why, for the love of God, ICA or GA would have been so he**-bent on concealing an innocent accident in the pool.


:banghead::waitasec::banghead::waitasec:

 

[RANCH]

IMO, that fourth piece of duct tape found among the remains was close to being a smoking gun.

IIRC, this tape was found in a still intact loop, with fine hairs attached, consistent with possible hairs from a child's arms or wrists. I also recall it had red fibers, attached possibly consistent with Caylee's clothing.

IMO, if the state had proved that this tape was on Caylee, they would know this tape was not used to manage postmortem decomposition. There would be no need to have tape on Caylee's wrists for that purpose.

We would be reduced to ICA and/or GA putting tape on Caylee's wrists to cover up the pool accident. Perhaps someone could explain to me why, for the love of God, ICA or GA would have been so he**-bent on concealing an innocent accident in the pool.


:banghead::waitasec::banghead::waitasec:

The only place you see that even talked about is in Baez's opening statement.The unproven sexual abuse.That made both GA and KC cover up an accidental death.No proof of it.But the jury bought it.Wait, their not to consider the opening statement as evidence. But maybe they did?

 

[MissJames]

I was trying to say in a nice way that maybe with Father's Day the day before ... Casey didn't see George. Maybe Caylee was mentioning where her daddy was or something. GA and Casey got into a discussion and lost track of Caylee. I didn't mean a knock down drag out.
That's ok.:seeya: I don't think she drowned anyway. Just might explain why 2 adults were not watching a 2yr old...

Sorry ! :seeya:I should have read back more .

 

[Controversialist]

I believe Caylee died from a drowning accident. If an autopsy had been performed on Caylee the above would have come out therefore they had to cover it up. Someone up thread asked well ok that explains GA but why didn't Casey call 911. Shame. It's the most shameful thing of all. Whether it's you, your daughter, or both. Shame. Ok now I promise not to talk about it anymore. I just felt I needed to tie it all in. All JMO. Mods if needed, do what you must.

IMO, while you could well be correct that ICA's reason for not calling 911 was shame, fear, etc., this would not excuse her action legally. She should have been held to account for this, as an act of culpable negligence.

ICA would have failed to take reasonable, prudent action to promote Caylee's well-being. ICA's parental responsibility to her dependent toddler supersedes her own convenience or feelings.

This sets a deplorable precedent. A parent refuses to make a 911 call that might have save the child's life, and then gets off the hook, because the 911 call might have caused Aunt Mildred to get upset.

Please be aware I'm not knocking your logic here. ICA might well have felt a powerful shame, and did a quick cost/benefit analysis, deciding to cover up to hide a shameful past. I'm knocking the jury IF they simply dropped the ball as they deliberated on the particular charge of culpable negligence.

 

[gngr~snap]

I hope your not saying that George or Lee were the Father of Caylee? There is NO proof of that.

no No proof. could have been anyone. Tensions were high in that household every which way at that time it seems.
moo

 

[gngr~snap]

It has been proven to be physically impossible.

6/16/08 it had not. At least they had not been tested at that time. Now it's different-

 

[dodie20]

You may be right. I'm not stating it as fact. But, I do believe it in my heart. I think CA is a sick as the rest. Do you know how many mother's know its happening and do nothing? You may be surprised. However, I think CA was told and she was conflicted. I think that is at the heart of the separations, filing divorce. But, she would let him come back. Maybe she didn't believe Casey. God knows Cindy knows she lies. Maybe Cindy played both sides of the fence and that fed the fued between her and Casey. Who really knows. But it is my opinion. I think that was a really dark house. This stuff doesn't just happen in poor, poverty driven, uneducated homes. I know this is not a welcome topic on here. But, it is within the heart of the case. It was used by DT in the trial. It explains the disassociation, the cover up, some of the weird comments. Hope I'm not offending anyone. I really don't mean to. I'll shut up now.

I understand why you think this way. 1st of all KC said it and put the accusations out there, and also, because some people, (myself included), think something might be seriously wrong with her. and like you, I've seen what molestation can do to a person and KC fits the profile to a tee, IMO. But she lies so much, it's impossible to pick out the truth. I'm not looking to excuse her, but I think she has some serious emotional and mental issues. If these accusations aren't true, (and I'm giving GA the benefit of the doubt on this), I hope there's some way he can prove it and clear his name. It's a shame, but innocent people are lied on about these things all of the time. I knew a lady who got her uncle in trouble for molesting her daughter. She hated that man! But guess what. The man passed a LDT and the daughter failed, so the charges were dropped. But to this day, (over 10 yrs later), this lady will tell anybody who'll listen, that this evil uncle molested her daughter. MOO.

 

[RANCH]

6/16/08 it had not. At least they had not been tested at that time. Now it's different-

So your saying that when Caylee died , George or Lee didn't know that they were not her bio father? I think your treading on thin ice. Go ahead if you must, but look out.

 

[gngr~snap]

So your saying that when Caylee died , George or Lee didn't know that they were not her bio father? I think your treading on thin ice. Go ahead if you must, but look out.

Not if she was playing them against each other.From 2005-2008. Seems she told CA something about Lee that made them want to exclude him from her pregnancy- or so he thought.
moo

 

[kelian36]

I just don't get it. Three people who attended the trial on most days were interviewed by a talking head, and they all agreed that they would have voted the same way. It was the barney fife guy, the heavy set blond who going to school for criminal justice, and another guy. Have we all been duped by the media all this time by watching the sensational while there never was enough proof for premeditated first degree murder? How can people say that it was not murder or even child neglect/abuse. Do they believe it was an accident that happened in only 2 hours time that resulted in immediate sure death with no calls for help, or that the whole family covered it up?

No ma'm we have not been duped. The facts were there. The state did a terrific job with their OS, CS and questioning.
IMO the jurors chatted about this trial the entire time they were sequestered. They were ready to go home and had their minds made up way before closing.

 

[Baznme]

Count me as one who is inclined to believe that Casey was molested by GA. As pcrum12 pointed out, incest victims tend to keep the abuse secret and feel a deep sense of shame. As for whether Cindy would have put up with it, she may not have known. She worked long hours, & being a nurse, it is possible that in Casey's younger years she could have been working a night shift @ a hospital so anything could have been going on. I would not rule out that Cindy suspected it, but stayed in denial about it, I say this from my own experience as an incest survivor. All that being said, I am still not convinced that GA knew anything about Caylee drowning, or participated in a coverup. I think it is possible, but it is also possible that GA wasn't at home when it happened, & Casey panicked & orchestrated the coverup on her own. It is also possible that Casey murdered Caylee, but I did not hear enough evidence to convince me, so I have to say I agree with the verdict.

I have yet to see Casey display a "deep sense of shame".

 

[Sjoseph316]

Count me as one who is inclined to believe that Casey was molested by GA. As pcrum12 pointed out, incest victims tend to keep the abuse secret and feel a deep sense of shame. As for whether Cindy would have put up with it, she may not have known. She worked long hours, & being a nurse, it is possible that in Casey's younger years she could have been working a night shift @ a hospital so anything could have been going on. I would not rule out that Cindy suspected it, but stayed in denial about it, I say this from my own experience as an incest survivor. All that being said, I am still not convinced that GA knew anything about Caylee drowning, or participated in a coverup. I think it is possible, but it is also possible that GA wasn't at home when it happened, & Casey panicked & orchestrated the coverup on her own. It is also possible that Casey murdered Caylee, but I did not hear enough evidence to convince me, so I have to say I agree with the verdict.

So you heard enough evidence to believe that Casey was molested but you didn't hear enough evidence to believe that Casey murdered Caylee?

WOW

 

[wfgodot]

This is the name of the thread:

For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

 

[Baznme]

IMO, that fourth piece of duct tape found among the remains was close to being a smoking gun.

IIRC, this tape was found in a still intact loop, with fine hairs attached, consistent with possible hairs from a child's arms or wrists. I also recall it had red fibers, attached possibly consistent with Caylee's clothing.

IMO, if the state had proved that this tape was on Caylee, they would know this tape was not used to manage postmortem decomposition. There would be no need to have tape on Caylee's wrists for that purpose.

We would be reduced to ICA and/or GA putting tape on Caylee's wrists to cover up the pool accident. Perhaps someone could explain to me why, for the love of God, ICA or GA would have been so he**-bent on concealing an innocent accident in the pool.


:banghead::waitasec::banghead::waitasec:

Exactly! This post says it all..........therefore, I STILL don't understand the verdict outcome.

 

[eleni777]

IMO, that fourth piece of duct tape found among the remains was close to being a smoking gun.

IIRC, this tape was found in a still intact loop, with fine hairs attached, consistent with possible hairs from a child's arms or wrists. I also recall it had red fibers, attached possibly consistent with Caylee's clothing.

IMO, if the state had proved that this tape was on Caylee, they would know this tape was not used to manage postmortem decomposition. There would be no need to have tape on Caylee's wrists for that purpose.

We would be reduced to ICA and/or GA putting tape on Caylee's wrists to cover up the pool accident. Perhaps someone could explain to me why, for the love of God, ICA or GA would have been so he**-bent on concealing an innocent accident in the pool.


:banghead::waitasec::banghead::waitasec:

I posted a scenerio a while back about why they would stage it that way...REMEMBER it's just a scenerio...

On June 15, 2008 Cindy takes Caylee to the Retirement home to visit Great Grandpa. (Cindy is fuming b/c she knows Casey has stolen more money)
They come home and go swimming (Per Cindy)
Casey comes home (from who knows where)
Casey wants to swim too but Cindy says "No, Caylee is it Tired" (per Cindy)
Cindy hands Caylee off to Casey (Per Cindy)
Cindy gets out of the pool and is so MAD at Casey she inadvertantly leaves the pool ladder up. (Cindy says she thought someone was swiming in there pool..and calls George b/c she notices the ladder up..this call was proven never to have happened)
Once Caylee is prepared for bed Cindy and Casey have a knock down drag out fight (Per Lee, inadmissible because it is hersay)
The pool ladder is up...
While this knock down drag out is going on NOBODY is paying attention to Caylee. She loves the pool and can climb the pool ladder on her own. (proven in court by photos)

THis part is purely my speculation of what could have happened:
Casey in a fit of anger leaves the house for the night.
George and Cindy think she's taken Caylee..
Cindy leaves for work the next morning.
Casey Comes home w/out Caylee.
George is watching his cooking show.
Casey asks where is Caylee.
George says I thought she was with you...
They find her around 1pm June 16, 2008 in the pool..

For me this would be the only reason that George would assist Casey in staging some type of cover up...the baby drowned the night before and all three of them had no idea..so she was floating in the pool for twelve hours or more..

the only reason I think this COULD be a possibility is because George gave this very detailed description of what Casey and Caylee were wearing when they left the house June 16,2008 -- can any of us remember what we were wearing a week ago, two weeks..a month? I can't... They find Caylee with different clothes then what George describes and the remains of a pullup. Baby's at that age usually can't control their bladders when in a deep sleep.

Then you have George's very ODD behavior..he goes straight to the police and blames Casey..He's very abrasive with everyone...His jailhouse speak towards Casey is WIERD. There are only a few instances when HE speaks..he lets Cindy speak because AT THIS POINT she really has no idea what happened and is truly freaking out...He uses Casey's ability to LIE LIE LIE to their advantage. Finally Cindy's behavior becomes WEIRD like George's because she is told..and she goes on her rabid dog offense of attacking everyone that is trying to find Caylee.. WHY? because they don't want her found.

there are only two other possible scenerios..
Casey was at home while Caylee was napping during the day and not paying attention. The pool ladder was forgotten up from the night before because of the arguement and chaos...Caylee wakes up and gets in the pool by herself. She panics and sets it up to look like a kidnapping. For me this is more plausible because of the computer use indicates that she is at the house while it would be a normal naptime for a child Caylee's age. No one comes forward to say she is a bad mother. NO ONE.
OR
Casey drowned Caylee in the pool and that's when the pool ladder is left up.. Casey left it up, that's why there is decomp hits in the backyard, she got out of the pool and placed Caylee on the ground.. and then she set it up too look like a kidnapping. Part of me tends not to believe this because in one of the taped Jailhouse call between CA, GA and KC..she says I used the shovel to move the pool ladder...WTF does that mean? In another one Casey says "Don't worry I didn't say anything" Again...WTF is she talking about?

All of this is just my opinion.

 

[1Chump]

I don't think he took the remains home either, and I'm sure that isn't what the DT was trying to imply. I believe they were saying that he stumbled on them in August, and when no one believed him then he did whatever he could to insure he'd be the one known to have found her whenever he called the next time. One peculiar thing about this though, and I know some are going to think I'm a conspiracy theorist for this, is watching the video of Dominic Casey out there and listening to Roy's 1st 911 calls and seeing the crime scene photos, I'm convinced Dominic Casey was in the spot of her remains. But, her remains are not on that video. She either wasn't there then or she was buried. Dominic and Hoover practically step over/on where she should've been. That stuck out to me and I found it disturbing, and furthered my thinking that Casey didn't put her out in the swamp.

When Kronk said he wanted to stay anonymous. IMO, he did not want his co-workers to know and possible have them claim part of the reward. I think that is why he "waited" to call from home.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Now this right here, I have to admit, if it were brought in as evidence is a legitimate cause for reasonable doubt. It makes sense, gives a reason and a motive for George to dispose of Caylee's body in the manner it was found. If I were to believe that GA did molest ICA (which I don't) this logic and explanation would cause reasonable doubt.

BUT... the jurors were not supposed to take any allegations of sexual abuse into account or consideration when deliberating. So even if they came to the logical reasoning that you did in your theory, it should not have been a factor in their verdict. So while what you say makes sense, if you believe molestation occurred, it still should not have played any part in deciding ICA was not-guilty.

The judge told the jurors, they can choose to believe a witness, or they can choose not to believe a witness. When JA asked GA if he ever molested KC, GA said no. The jury chose not to believe GA. So, if they did not believe GA, then maybe they did believe he molested KC. If this is what they believed, then they would be allowed to factor that in to their decision for a verdict. That may have been the turning point in the whole case. That question was asked by JA right after opening statements. If the jury believed that GA had molested KC, and were watching the trial through that filter, it made the DT's theories a whole lot more plausible to the jury.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.