For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

[Schu7]

Maybe it slipped your mind that GA served as a Police Officer for 10 years. He could possibly have a CB radio or whatever they are where you can hear all the police calls. Even civilians can do this, I've heard it myself. I think GA knew it was his evil Daughter and was mad that she broke the shed! yes, remember Tony said ICA said "It's her shed, so she can break it if she wants". I would be angry too and probably call the police. GA had nothing to do with the killing of Caylee or dumping her in the swamp!

I must have put my comments out badly here.

Of course George did not kill Caylee! That has never ever has entered my head.

But I strongly believe George made the phone call to the police to get Cindy's attention that Casey was stealing again. And to pressure Casey to stop stealing his gas. Neighborhood break in? They happen everywhere all the time. But George did not want the police looking at Casey for the stealing, if they ever came around. As a former police officer, he knew that was unlikely. Cindy had told George to leave Casey alone. She was handling Casey's stealing, check fraud, etc... herself. George never could dreamt in his worst nightmare that the lie about neighborhood break ins would come back to be a factor in his grand-daughter's death investigation.

 

[cluciano63]

I must have put my comments out badly here.

Of course George did not kill Caylee! That has never ever has entered my head.

But I strongly believe George made the phone call to the police to get Cindy's attention that Casey was stealing again. And to pressure Casey to stop stealing his gas. Neighborhood break in? They happen everywhere all the time. But George did not want the police looking at Casey for the stealing, if they ever came around. As a former police officer, he knew that was unlikely. Cindy had told George to leave Casey alone. She was handling Casey's stealing, check fraud, etc... herself. George never could dreamt in his worst nightmare that the lie about neighborhood break ins would come back to be a factor in his grand-daughter's death investigation.

And a great job Cindy was doing, handling Casey...

 

[Chablis]

I must have put my comments out badly here.

Of course George did not kill Caylee! That has never ever has entered my head.

But I strongly believe George made the phone call to the police to get Cindy's attention that Casey was stealing again. And to pressure Casey to stop stealing his gas.

I totally agree about this. I think George calling the cops was his version of worrying about Casey and Caylee, and to bring awareness to Cindy, I have always thought that. I do not think George is involved in whatever happened either.

 

[MissJames]

Caylee was last seen on June 16th getting into the Sunfire with with ICA. The next time she's is seen by anyone ,other than her mother,is in a swampy area,only bones left,and of course,the duct tape.
The smell of decomposition comes from the trunk.Many witnesses said they knew that smell and confirmed it.A cadaver dog confirmed it.Scientific testing confirmed it. CA cried "it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car!" when she was reporting Caylee missing.
A hair from one of the 3 Anthony females was found in the trunk with a death band.I recall testimony on studies that showed the difference between a death band and darkening of a root that was shed from a person who is alive.
I'm just not sure what else is needed to prove there was a body in the trunk and since Caylee is dead and that's the car she was in ,well,how big of a stretch is it to figure out it was her? The doll she carried everywhere was found in her car seat with the stench on it.Her packed backback was in the car.

 

[Schu7]

And a great job Cindy was doing, handling Casey...

I should have put "non-job", but then I thought of Caylee. Cindy handled the situation with Casey so badly, Casey killed Caylee in a fit of rage against Cindy. Cindy should ask for money back on those "counseling classes" on how to handle Casey she was taking. They did not work.

 

[MissJames]

I think the prosecution took the defense and their theories too lightly. Because to the state the things JB was alleging came off as so ludicrous and unbelieveable, they did not bother to refute them in any meaningful way. I don't know if reading the jury is something an experienced prosecutor should be able to do well, but in this case, it appears (JMO) that the state was not reading this jury at all. I.e. if even a few jurors seemed to be listening intently to Jose, the state should have paid more attention and addressed the issues he covered in another way. I don't know, I just felt as though the state did not take the defense seriously at all, and that is always a mistake. America loves the underdog, that is a famous saying, and clearly, they saw that to be JB.

The opening statement was completely new information to the PT and the public. The DT never presented anything to refute .There was no testimony to the alleged molestation,they handled RK's son and his memory issue,CA's false testimony,and there was no evidence of a drowning. Millions of people have pictures of their kids in pools.That is not evidence of a drowning,so what was there to refute?

 

[MissJames]

I think I read in the foreman's interview he said the first vote was 10-2 in favor of not guilty so the consensus was there early on.

Wrong .The 10-2 vote was for Felony 1 .!0 did not believe it was Felony 1,2 did.
The 6-6 vote was for manslaughter.

Six jurors thought they saw enough evidence to at least convict her of manslaughter. The jury foreman and #3 have made statements that do not comply with thejury instructions. Since they never asked for aclarification,one can only assume they got it wrong,for some reason.

 

[MissJames]

I read a post a while back, I think on this thread, that we were deliberating more then the jury were. I do agree with that, but it could be because the jury was made up of more "not guilty" people then "guilty".

Again,coming into deliberations at least 2 jurors felt they had seen enough evidence to convict her with felony murder.The second vote was who felt there was enough evidence to convict on a manslaughter charge.6-6

The statements #11(foreman) and #3 have made are evidence of not properly applying the jury instructions. I believe there was incorrect information used to "convince" the other 6 they had to vote NG. For one thing,they considered what the sentence would be if she was convicted. # 3 doesn't seem to realize there were lesser charges with a lighter sentence (not that she should have considered the sentence). The foreman appears to belive he "helped" the for guilt jurors to change their vote,but he was using faulty information.
I hope more of the jurors come forward . It's clear something very wrong went on in that jury room.JMO
#2 was the last hold out.If only he had not caved.

 

[MissJames]

This is a link to the Sidebar transcript for June 24. The jurors never heard this,of course,but it gives more insight into the law and the reason the jurors were not to consider the information in the DT opening statement,but they did.


http://www.wftv.com/pdf/28418405/detail.html

 

[Schu7]

The ONLY reason she was not convicted is because it took 6 months to find Caylee's little body.
All the evidence went away with the decomposition of her little body.

So, lesson of the day, you can get away with murder if you can hide the body long enough.

JMO

A lesson the mob has learnt long ago. They hide the bodies of their victims when they have a chance. From cement shoes and in into ocean in the North East to the dessert all around Las Vegas for examples.

But in plastic bags near the side of the road, NEAR YOUR HOUSE in a swamp. Casey has proved you do not need to have a brain to hide a body here. This is scary stuff!

 

[beccalecca1]

Again,coming into deliberations at least 2 jurors felt they had seen enough evidence to convict her with felony murder.The second vote was who felt there was enough evidence to convict on a manslaughter charge.6-6

The statements #11(foreman) and #3 have made are evidence of not properly applying the jury instructions. I believe there was incorrect information used to "convince" the other 6 they had to vote NG. For one thing,they considered what the sentence would be if she was convicted. # 3 doesn't seem to realize there were lesser charges with a lighter sentence (not that she should have considered the sentence). The foreman appears to belive he "helped" the for guilt jurors to change their vote,but he was using faulty information.
I hope more of the jurors come forward . It's clear something very wrong went on in that jury room.JMO
#2 was the last hold out.If only he had not caved.

In regards to both the 10-2 vote and the 6-6 vote, clearly the evidence couldn't have been strong enough in the minds of the 2 people and the 6 people because after 11 hours, they came back with NG on all major charges. I don't think the jury only looked at the OS, I'm not even sure if they considered any of it at all since the only testimony about the sexual abuse accusations was George denying it.

 

[cluciano63]

The opening statement was completely new information to the PT and the public. The DT never presented anything to refute .There was no testimony to the alleged molestation,they handled RK's son and his memory issue,CA's false testimony,and there was no evidence of a drowning. Millions of people have pictures of their kids in pools.That is not evidence of a drowning,so what was there to refute?

JA said last week that nothing JB was new to him and that they knew the defense that was going to be used...

 

[pcrum12]

Caylee was last seen on June 16th getting into the Sunfire with with ICA. The next time she's is seen by anyone ,other than her mother,is in a swampy area,only bones left,and of course,the duct tape.
The smell of decomposition comes from the trunk.Many witnesses said they knew that smell and confirmed it.A cadaver dog confirmed it.Scientific testing confirmed it. CA cried "it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car!" when she was reporting Caylee missing.
A hair from one of the 3 Anthony females was found in the trunk with a death band.I recall testimony on studies that showed the difference between a death band and darkening of a root that was shed from a person who is alive.
I'm just not sure what else is needed to prove there was a body in the trunk and since Caylee is dead and that's the car she was in ,well,how big of a stretch is it to figure out it was her? The doll she carried everywhere was found in her car seat with the stench on it.Her packed backback was in the car.

BBM: Per George. and per George only. Jury didn't believe anything he said lol.

 

[pcrum12]

The opening statement was completely new information to the PT and the public. The DT never presented anything to refute .There was no testimony to the alleged molestation,they handled RK's son and his memory issue,CA's false testimony,and there was no evidence of a drowning. Millions of people have pictures of their kids in pools.That is not evidence of a drowning,so what was there to refute?

If you listen to JA interviews, he was asked if this was new and a surprise and he said they knew weeks earlier and that there were some graphic pictures in discovery to lead him to believe the DT would use this type of defense, IIRC. Wish I had a link but I think it was with Dr Drew or on the Today show maybe. Can't remember.

 

[crucibelle]

Again,coming into deliberations at least 2 jurors felt they had seen enough evidence to convict her with felony murder.The second vote was who felt there was enough evidence to convict on a manslaughter charge.6-6

The statements #11(foreman) and #3 have made are evidence of not properly applying the jury instructions. I believe there was incorrect information used to "convince" the other 6 they had to vote NG. For one thing,they considered what the sentence would be if she was convicted. # 3 doesn't seem to realize there were lesser charges with a lighter sentence (not that she should have considered the sentence). The foreman appears to belive he "helped" the for guilt jurors to change their vote,but he was using faulty information.
I hope more of the jurors come forward . It's clear something very wrong went on in that jury room.JMO
#2 was the last hold out.If only he had not caved.

BBM. The other jurors probably put him through He77. I wish he wouldn't have caved, either.

 

[MissJames]

Circular arguments. Have at it. We'll be hearing a lot more about what went wrong,IMO. The jurors who spoke out have not given valid reasons for NG. More stories are bound to come out,if not now,then in the future .My guess is,the others were bullied and given the wrong info once in the jury room. JMO

 

[HatesSociopaths]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHk9qxAg0ic&feature=relmfu"]‪Casey Anthony Trial: State's Rebuttal Part 4‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

For those who agree ICA should have been found not guilty of at least manslaughter of a child, I just want to find out, what is the other explanation for the death of Caylee that makes sense, in light of these final closing arguments by the prosecution?

I re-watched closing arguments from both sides, and I just don't see how the jury could find any other explanation than at least the aggravated manslaughter of a child charge. Particularly this final clip from LDB was very compelling. She showed the circumstantial evidence very well.

“To find aggravated manslaughter of a child, the State must prove beyond a reasons doubt two elements” Perry told the Court. First, the jury must find Caylee Marie Anthony is dead. Second, they must find that Casey Anthony’s acts caused the death of Caylee or that the death of the Caylee was caused by culpable negligence by Casey Anthony.

Judge Perry then explained to the Court how culpable negligence works. Perry told jurors that each of us has a duty to act reasonable towards another. He said that a violation without intent is negligence. But to be culpable, Perry told the Court, the negligence must be gross and flagrant, exhibit a reckless disregard to human life or conscious disregard for the safety or welfare of the public, or the rights of others.

Perry told the court that an culpable negligence exists when you do an act, or follow a course of conduct, that you should have known would cause harm to others. Perry thereafter focused on the “of a child” section of the charge. He said that Casey was Caylee’s caregiver. Perry said that a parent is defined as a caregiver; a child is defined as anyone under age 18; and the negligent of a child by a caregiver can be exhibited with lack of food, nutrition, clothing, shelter, supervision, and medical services essential for the welfare of the child.

How does aggravated manslaughter of a child relate to the other Casey Anthony charges? To convict Casey of aggravated manslaughter of a child, you must find that she did not commit premeditated murder (first degree premeditated murder) and that she did not murder during the commission of a felony of aggravated child abuse that resulted in the death of Caylee (first degree felony murder).

 

[JBean]

FALSE: An expert witness (ME) gave a scientific opinion that manner of death was homicide. inocchio:

TRUE: An expert witness (ME) gave a scientific opinion that manner of death is undeterminable. :waitasec:

I did want to clarify this issue. I may not understand what you are trying to say, but it is accurate to say that the ME gave an expert opinion that:
the MANNER of death was homicide
the CAUSE of death was by undetermined means.
IOW< she determined that she died by the hands of another,but she doesn't know specifically how she died,ie gunshot,drowning,asphyxiation for example.
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801498/detail.html

 

[Littleone48]

The opening statement was completely new information to the PT and the public. The DT never presented anything to refute .There was no testimony to the alleged molestation,they handled RK's son and his memory issue,CA's false testimony,and there was no evidence of a drowning. Millions of people have pictures of their kids in pools.That is not evidence of a drowning,so what was there to refute?

BBM IIRC JA stated in one of his interviews that he was made aware of the Opening Statement information a few weeks before the trial. I think this was in his first interview after the verdict.

I would appreciate it if someone could point me int he direction of that interview. I am positive that I heard him say that. TYIA

 

[Littleone48]

BBM: Per George. and per George only. Jury didn't believe anything he said lol.

And George being the last one to see them with such vivid detail was a problem for me.