For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

[gngr~snap]

But there was not any evidence of that!

This is my point! The jury couldn't just think up possibilities out of thin air and run with them.

(What I'm thinking you're hinting at is that the molestation charges of George and/or Lee was that one of them was also harming Caylee in that manner (ugh I hate to even type that) and had reason to not want her body to be found. Am I right?)

I at this point think it is a real possibility.
the questioning at trial was all about it.
Nothing like being non specific
and not coming out and saying it.
actually putting it out there she'd have
gotten the DP I'm sure.
but it's taboo-

 

[RANCH]

Probably because it is obvious from the jurors who have spoken that the jury (which IMHO discussed the case before deliberations in direct violation to Judge Perry's admonishments) based their verdict SOLELY upon the Defense's fantasy opening statement.

You know what, thats probably true but I sure would like a few more members of the jury to talk first.They may let a few things slip, like the alternate using the term "WE".

 

[Baznme]

Found it real quick....

Bloise testified both that he smelled human decomp, and then non human decomp depending on who was asking him.

Charity Beasley (LE that secured car for pick up) didn't smell anything

Sgt. Hosey smelled something that night, but didn't act on what he smelled even after GA talked to him.

Yuri Melich testified he didn't smell anything to be concerned of that night (7/15-7/16)

Deputy Eberland didn't smell anything

Corporal Fletcher didn't smell anything

And finally, Acevado (spelling?) didn't smell anything.

Do you have a link?

 

[stg]

If Caylee drowned in the pool, would GA and CA really have kept the pool? I wouldn't be able to look at it anymore if I were them.

 

[pcrum12]

in a drive by shooting either. At least that would be consistent with the manner of death which was homicide. I don't believe it is proper for the jury to speculate about that for which there is no evidence when the manner of death is homicide and a drowning is not consistent with that.

Many people, including the jurors, confuse OS with evidence. Believing in a drowning is, to me, like accepting an OS in which Jose says what really happened is a motorcyclist was going down Hopespring Dr. and accidently ran Caylee over and during the trial he shows Cindy a picture of Caylee watching a motorcycle ride by the house and Caylee near an open door that leads to the front yard and elicits testimony that Caylee loved to watch motorcycles ride by.

A case with only circumstantial evidence requires logical thinking about who and what the totality of the evidence leads to and the ability to discern fact from fantasy when someone may be trying to mislead you so as to protect a guilty party from punishment. There was no evidentiary challenge to the finding that the manner of death was homicide. In the medical examiners experience 100% of accidents/drownings are reported even when the child was clearly already deceased. For the jurors to imagine scenarios which conflict with the manner of death and for which there is no evidence is, IMO, improper.

I guess the OS wasn't such a shocker to me. Because even before this trial started I believed the child drown. And I also believed Casey was molested. Along with that I felt George was lying and shady. Unfortunatley I have some experience with incest. Its not a pretty subject and most don't even want to consider it. I brought those beliefs with me when the trial began. So it wasn't such a stretch for me. I didn't just start believing those thing because DT said it.

What was shocking to me was that for 3 years all over this forum it was posted that they all knew, they are all in a cover up, George is shady, Cindy's a liar. Lee is weird. But the minute JB gave his OP everyone backtracked their statements. GA and CA get on the stand and everyone bought their "sincerity", all of a sudden they were for Caylee, telling the truth, etc. Then mid trial, They're all liars again. lol. Crazy.

None of us know what happened. None of us know Why. But, I honestly believe that the jurors came back with a verdict that went by the instructions. And the way the charges were filed and the instructions were written they didn't find a charge that fit. They had to vote not guilty. They did their job. Again, as always, this is all my own opinion. we all have them.

 

[gngr~snap]

Lee isn't so computer savvy if he thinks that only a virus can cause the Blue Screen of Death on Windows XP. Actually, a virus is the least likely explanation for that.

Doesn't matter! they recovered it! Got all they needed again timing wasn't ICA and prob not Tony either can't remember but I want to say that it was done after midnight?- After Lee claims to have left the house.
The other problem he has is the backpack.
I think it had clothes of Caylee's CA had never seen.
and as far as I can tell
he says it comes from Tony's- or that is his story.
Tony's house was smokey? right?
the way she asks about it smelling
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138438"]Lee Anthony's testimonies - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


eta
LA: Yes - Casey's belongings. I got a laptop, a duffel bag full of clothes, I believe a backpack as well, and just like another bag like knicknacks.

DS: That opinio that your sister did not pack that bag, can you tell me is it an assumption?
Objection.
Sustained
DS: The bags you picked up - they had no odor?
LA: No
he says no.
wouldn't the backpack reek to a non smoker had
it been there all month?

 

[RANCH]

in a drive by shooting either. At least that would be consistent with the manner of death which was homicide. I don't believe it is proper for the jury to speculate about that for which there is no evidence when the manner of death is homicide and a drowning is not consistent with that.

Many people, including the jurors, confuse OS with evidence. Believing in a drowning is, to me, like accepting an OS in which Jose says what really happened is a motorcyclist was going down Hopespring Dr. and accidently ran Caylee over and during the trial he shows Cindy a picture of Caylee watching a motorcycle ride by the house and Caylee near an open door that leads to the front yard and elicits testimony that Caylee loved to watch motorcycles ride by.

A case with only circumstantial evidence requires logical thinking about who and what the totality of the evidence leads to and the ability to discern fact from fantasy when someone may be trying to mislead you so as to protect a guilty party from punishment. There was no evidentiary challenge to the finding that the manner of death was homicide. In the medical examiners experience 100% of accidents/drownings are reported even when the child was clearly already deceased. For the jurors to imagine scenarios which conflict with the manner of death and for which there is no evidence is, IMO, improper.

This is an excellent post.However it doesn't help me understand why the jury came up with their verdict.Please, someone help me.

 

[mrye4709]

Found it real quick....

Bloise testified both that he smelled human decomp, and then non human decomp depending on who was asking him.

Charity Beasley (LE that secured car for pick up) didn't smell anything

Sgt. Hosey smelled something that night, but didn't act on what he smelled even after GA talked to him.

Yuri Melich testified he didn't smell anything to be concerned of that night (7/15-7/16)

Deputy Eberland didn't smell anything

Corporal Fletcher didn't smell anything

And finally, Acevado (spelling?) didn't smell anything.

I have never had decomp in my car, but I have had kids spill chocolate milk in the floorboard. I sprayed all kinds of cleaners and thought I got the odor, but the next day it was back. Just thinking about hearing ICA (i think) on the 911 call say "Ill never get this car clean". Maybe the smell was covered pretty good for that time and got worse again?

 

[Baznme]

I guess the OS wasn't such a shocker to me. Because even before this trial started I believed the child drown. And I also believed Casey was molested. Along with that I felt George was lying and shady. Unfortunatley I have some experience with incest. Its not a pretty subject and most don't even want to consider it. I brought those beliefs with me when the trial began. So it wasn't such a stretch for me. I didn't just start believing those thing because DT said it.

What was shocking to me was that for 3 years all over this forum it was posted that they all knew, they are all in a cover up, George is shady, Cindy's a liar. Lee is weird. But the minute JB gave his OP everyone backtracked their statements. GA and CA get on the stand and everyone bought their "sincerity", all of a sudden they were for Caylee, telling the truth, etc. Then mid trial, They're all liars again. lol. Crazy.

None of us know what happened. None of us know Why. But, I honestly believe that the jurors came back with a verdict that went by the instructions. And the way the charges were filed and the instructions were written they didn't find a charge that fit. They had to vote not guilty. They did their job. Again, as always, this is all my own opinion. we all have them.

You are very fortunate to have it settled in your mind. I wish I could say the same. I can't. I disagree with your statement they HAD to vote not guilty. They did not follow the judge's instructions nor were they truthful about following the judge's admonitions. Travesty IMO that THIS is the last word for Caylee.

 

[pcrum12]

What are they and how does that have anything to do with Caylee dying? I really would like to know.

If you are to believe Casey was molested, It's not a far stretch to think Caylee may have been as well. And IF that is the case, the autopsy would bring that to light. All JMOO.

 

[pcrum12]

But there was not any evidence of that!

This is my point! The jury couldn't just think up possibilities out of thin air and run with them.

(What I'm thinking you're hinting at is that the molestation charges of George and/or Lee was that one of them was also harming Caylee in that manner (ugh I hate to even type that) and had reason to not want her body to be found. Am I right?)

Correct. GA not admitting it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Incest victims do not tell. They are ashamed. Incest victims usually love the perpetrator regardless. So all that no record, why didn't she leave, etc. goes out the door as evidence to rebut. You can check my posts for the last 3 yrs and see where I'm at on that. It's JMO. I hate to even type it. But, I firmly believe it.

 

[gngr~snap]

If you are to believe Casey was molested, It's not a far stretch to think Caylee may have been as well. And IF that is the case, the autopsy would bring that to light. All JMOO.

I'll take it a step further if she had recent"DNA" on her it was not Casey's
which is why she was tossed like trash and left to decay until there were only bones left. because someone doesn't want to go to jail for the rest of his life pin it on Casey!. by the time the body is found there will be NO EVIDENCE of anything and no one will believe a word she says.

moo
hypothetically speaking.

eta that's what i think the jury kinda thought. and if sexual abuse was at the heart of this case her mother could not be responsible.-
but that's not really true either.

 

[RANCH]

If you are to believe Casey was molested, It's not a far stretch to think Caylee may have been as well. And IF that is the case, the autopsy would bring that to light. All JMOO.

With all respect, how can an autopsy of skeletal remains bring that to light?

 

[Baznme]

If you are to believe Casey was molested, It's not a far stretch to think Caylee may have been as well. And IF that is the case, the autopsy would bring that to light. All JMOO.

I do not believe there was any molestation. It's just another lie that morphed from the one before. She played the victim card to divert the attention away from her culpability in Caylee's demise. Do you honestly believe if there was any molestation going on in that house that Cindy would have put up with it for one minute?! She would have taken care of the molester in a heartbeat! He!!, KC ran that house......do you honestly think she would have put up with it? She would have been spilling the beans especially to her cop boyfriends to the top of her lungs. Jesse G. got the story as her brother being the molester. She gets arrested and all of a sudden, it's her father? C'mon........she's a pathological liar and Baez ate every bit of it. If she is innocent and these accusations are true, why can't she face her own mother? Because she knows......it's a lie.

 

[pcrum12]

With all respect, how can an autopsy of skeletal remains bring that to light?

My point. It can't. That's why the cover up of a drowning. That's why GA no call to 911. JMOO

 

[RANCH]

My point. It can't. That's why the cover up of a drowning. That's why GA no call to 911. JMOO

Oh.I see. I'm not sure your aloud to post things like that about George though. I believe it considered rumor.

 

[Baznme]

My point. It can't. That's why the cover up of a drowning. That's why GA no call to 911. JMOO

and KC's explanation was "?".........no call to 911?

 

[pcrum12]

I do not believe there was any molestation. It's just another lie that morphed from the one before. She played the victim card to divert the attention away from her culpability in Caylee's demise. Do you honestly believe if there was any molestation going on in that house that Cindy would have put up with it for one minute?! She would have taken care of the molester in a heartbeat! He!!, KC ran that house......do you honestly think she would have put up with it? She would have been spilling the beans especially to her cop boyfriends to the top of her lungs. Jesse G. got the story as her brother being the molester. She gets arrested and all of a sudden, it's her father? C'mon........she's a pathological liar and Baez ate every bit of it. If she is innocent and these accusations are true, why can't she face her own mother? Because she knows......it's a lie.

You may be right. I'm not stating it as fact. But, I do believe it in my heart. I think CA is a sick as the rest. Do you know how many mother's know its happening and do nothing? You may be surprised. However, I think CA was told and she was conflicted. I think that is at the heart of the separations, filing divorce. But, she would let him come back. Maybe she didn't believe Casey. God knows Cindy knows she lies. Maybe Cindy played both sides of the fence and that fed the fued between her and Casey. Who really knows. But it is my opinion. I think that was a really dark house. This stuff doesn't just happen in poor, poverty driven, uneducated homes. I know this is not a welcome topic on here. But, it is within the heart of the case. It was used by DT in the trial. It explains the disassociation, the cover up, some of the weird comments. Hope I'm not offending anyone. I really don't mean to. I'll shut up now.

 

[gngr~snap]

I do not believe there was any molestation. It's just another lie that morphed from the one before. She played the victim card to divert the attention away from her culpability in Caylee's demise. Do you honestly believe if there was any molestation going on in that house that Cindy would have put up with it for one minute?! She would have taken care of the molester in a heartbeat! He!!, KC ran that house......do you honestly think she would have put up with it? She would have been spilling the beans especially to her cop boyfriends to the top of her lungs. Jesse G. got the story as her brother being the molester. She gets arrested and all of a sudden, it's her father? C'mon........she's a pathological liar and Baez ate every bit of it. If she is innocent and these accusations are true, why can't she face her own mother? Because she knows......it's a lie.

I respect your opinion.
Had chloroform not been in that trunk and researched on the computer (that CA took responsibility), and I had not seen some pics of
Caylee that lead (just me) to believe that it had been used and the fact that Casey's claims are VERY vague...along with her being out of touch with the real world... makes me question repeated use over the years and brain damage... Along with the fact he has never spoken out in a public forum to deny the allegations- (he doesn't have to but it would have helped- and no he owes me personally no explanation)
Maybe I am faulting the wrong guy. Could have been LA I guess.
I think she won't face her mom because she let it happen and never stopped him. I also think JB has damning evidence that will prove it that has not been released. Hopefully The Sunshine law will allow someone t have it unsealed.
GA is no stand up guy. He is a swindler and i believe he is capable of anything!

moo

 

[Nenato5]

I do not believe there was any molestation. It's just another lie that morphed from the one before. She played the victim card to divert the attention away from her culpability in Caylee's demise. Do you honestly believe if there was any molestation going on in that house that Cindy would have put up with it for one minute?! She would have taken care of the molester in a heartbeat! He!!, KC ran that house......do you honestly think she would have put up with it? She would have been spilling the beans especially to her cop boyfriends to the top of her lungs. Jesse G. got the story as her brother being the molester. She gets arrested and all of a sudden, it's her father? C'mon........she's a pathological liar and Baez ate every bit of it. If she is innocent and these accusations are true, why can't she face her own mother? Because she knows......it's a lie.

I agree but have to wonder if Jose Baez "ate every bit of it" or if her created the story himself.