For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[Hippiemomof5]

Ok, try this one...

I can't quite make out the date--I think it says 11/03/05 or 11/13/05.

Wow! You have a great eye! Thanks for the close up.

 

[missy1974]

exhibit 27... introduced during JZ's testimony....



Sept 15th -21st is the issue date.

 

[missy1974]

oh and the cheques/checks/receipts BCA .... I remember when we first got that pic, I thought wth ... why are they giving him money... and why aren't they cashed? haha

 

[BigCityAccountant]

oh and the cheques/checks/receipts BCA .... I remember when we first got that pic, I thought wth ... why are they giving him money... and why aren't they cashed? haha

hahaha...I did the same thing...LOL I found them awhile ago and said, oh he wasn't cashing them because he was suing them and it was chump change compared to what he was going to get. LOL

 

[BigCityAccountant]

exhibit 27... introduced during JZ's testimony....

Sept 15th -21st is the issue date.

You are right that is the correct date! Good find on the picture. :toast:

 

[Jaiddie]

http://www.htrnews.com/story/news/l...nitowoc-co-making-murderer-season-2/81592998/

"Manitowoc reacts to MaM Season 2"

Sheriff Robert Hermann:

"Are they going to come out with all the facts they didn't present in the first one? I don't think that's the case. The first one has been a terrible injustice to the criminal justice system, law enforcement, our area. It's nothing about our justice system as they say...it's about the money they're making off of this, and it's at the cost of the Halbach family."

I absolutely do not understand the cajones of some of these people! Hermann now, and Kratz comes to mind as well. The deflection that the state's officials have spouted off about is OFF THE CHARTS. Yeah, the documentary was the horrible injustice done...not that pristine, award-worthy, by-the-books, stellar investigation and trial proceedings conducted by honorable LE and judicial system. How they have the gall to go on record today and defend that travesty they called an investigation and criminal proceedings completely blows my mind. And the Halbach's paid the price 10 years ago when they allowed, and blindly believed, LE to so callously disrespect their loved one by not conducting a PROPER investigation! For all anyone knows Teresa's killer may have been walking the streets this whole time. Where's the Justice in that for her? I also find it very ironic that Sheriff Hermann is talking about money being made off things. I wonder how well his Salvage business has been doing for the last decade? I also can see where his indignation and righteousness is coming from, as well. This IS an election year, after all, smh.

 

[missy1974]

:clap: Jaiddie

I wonder if Hermann has watched the documentary? I would like him to point out the facts that he says was missing in the first one, because we know Kratz said the same thing and I still have not seen anything 'earth shattering', and I do remember thinking in the beginning that once we got the transcripts and everything else, maybe I would change my mind, and well.... that hasn't happened LOL

 

[Sarah]

[video=youtube;1rrvmwRVcxA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=1rrvmwRVcxA&app=desktop[/video]

This is an excellent Last Stop timeline analysis for TH movements on 10/31. The poster uses the phone records, eye witness accounts, maps, and probable travel time to show viewers how he reached his conclusions.

It's an interesting watch and well thought out.
Where I struggle with it though is the ease with which he dismisses the bus driver and propane guy's testimony.
IMO both of those are pretty convincing recollections and unless the phone pings reliably place her at other points at other times, I'm inclined to believe a 3:30 - 3:45 visit to Avery's.
I'm also not convinced by the way he suggests she just blew off the Z's appointment.
If she decided to do Avery's first and Z's later why say that she was lost and couldn't find it?
Is the suggestion that Mrs Z made up the content of the Voicemail? (I can't remember whether that message was actually listened to or if it's just Mrs Z's word for what it contained)

 

[Jaiddie]

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/deception-experts-jury-is-correct-steve-avery-is-guilty/

http://www.dunncountyextra.com/making-murderer-part-7/

And the Media Blitz is back on again, full steam ahead, it would seem....but it doesn't seem to be working if the comments from the first link are anything to go by, lol.

 

[Jaiddie]

I am finding it ABSOLUTELY hysterical that the commenters from that first link in my previous post are LITERALLY taking over for each other when they have to "take a breath" while listing everything that was WRONG in that investigation, LMFAO! Completely Priceless!!! :hilarious:

 

[Jaiddie]

On another note, I am finding it very discerning that when watching TV shows that I had previously held some respect for in their telling of true crime stories (and had thought myself to be "just making myself aware of possible dangers in the world"), such as 20/20, Nightline, etc... I now view with a cynical eye and find myself researching after I watch. It doesn't help that when I look further, I see things like the link I post below. It makes me very concerned that this problem is so huge (in general, not just the cases in MaM) that I do not see where we, as a nation, can get the ability back to have the trust that we should be able to have in the ones who are supposed to "serve and protect" us.

http://www.citypages.com/news/who-k...es-investigators-of-role-in-cold-case-6555552

Btw...I was watching the episode of 20/20 called "Anchorwoman" that lead me to search (wherein I then found the link.)

I also know that not ALL cases are going to yield such concerning questions when researched independently, however, after seeing seeing the media's part in the SA and BD cases, it makes me realize how very easy it is to have the wool pulled over the public's eyes.

 

[Jaiddie]

http://whbl.com/news/articles/2016/mar/11/former-attorney-general-named-to-state-ethics-panel/

Clearly, WI is learning nothing...this is the AG that found no wrongdoing in SA's wrongful conviction. Makes sense, I guess, with Kratz being one of the founders of the Crime Victims Committee or some such, smh. Grrrrr!

 

[Whickswi]

http://www.htrnews.com/story/news/l...nitowoc-co-making-murderer-season-2/81592998/

"Manitowoc reacts to MaM Season 2"

Sheriff Robert Hermann:

"Are they going to come out with all the facts they didn't present in the first one? I don't think that's the case. The first one has been a terrible injustice to the criminal justice system, law enforcement, our area. It's nothing about our justice system as they say...it's about the money they're making off of this, and it's at the cost of the Halbach family."

This absolutely infuriates me. There is a mountain of evidence proving Wisconsin handled this investigation so poorly. To come out and say the documentary is an injustice is so laughable. The Avery trial both times is an injustice. These people really believe there above the law. Can't wait for KZ to lay the hammer down

 

[Sarah]

But you guys did find something very interesting... The Auto Trader that Zipperer is holding up is from August - September. I can't tell the exact dates because it is also blurry. I think it is August 19th thru September 3rd.

Hmmmm I believe it was a weekly publication. It would make no sense for it to be monthly because ads would be out of date too quickly.
FWIW I see August 28th to September 3rd - which was a Sunday to Saturday in 2005.

Would it be normal practice to leave such an old copy with a client?
You'd think they'd leave a current version, but it's possible if it's just intended as a sample and the boats & bikes one on SA's desk is even older!

 

[dexter75]

I was FURIOUS, yet sick to my stomach to learn KK was on that Committee,grr.

http://whbl.com/news/articles/2016/mar/11/former-attorney-general-named-to-state-ethics-panel/

Clearly, WI is learning nothing...this is the AG that found no wrongdoing in SA's wrongful conviction. Makes sense, I guess, with Kratz being one of the founders of the Crime Victims Committee or some such, smh. Grrrrr!

 

[dexter75]

With all due respect,

How can anyone read this article, written by an FBI agent, and question us? Our motives for doubting this investigation, I mean?

Just the aspect of the bones, " doesn't make any sense "

BoD & ST were my original suspects when this case gained national attention, the second time around.

I wonder, FWIW if one of them didn't say " hey SA, why don't ya give that Auto Trader gal a call and see if she can come back real quick and take a few more pics of these other vehicles?"
Thinking about that 4:35 call SA tried that went straight to VM. Did someone intentionally set him up??
It WOULD make SA look pretty suspicious, IMO

JMO

http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-the-story.html

"Moore to the Story: An FBI Agent's Take on MaM: Episode 6 part 2 of 3"

Another EXCELLENT analysis by a seasoned LEO. I love the part where he talks about his thoughts on the "magic bullet":

"I remember the horrible experience of Raffaele Sollecito, the Italian man accused with Amanda Knox of the murder of Meredith Kercher. The Italian authorities were desperate to "put him in the murder room." Yet there was no evidence of him there. So what happened? Six weeks after the extensive first search, the police went back and "found" the victim's bra clasp, and guess what? It was determined to have Raffaele's DNA on it. The defense, of course, wanted to be present at testing, but were denied. They then wanted to retest the DNA, but the prosecutors claimed that the DNA was completely consumed in testing. Before they were exonerated, Raffaele and Amanda each spent four years in prison for a crime they did not commit. Does this give anybody else a feeling of Deja vu?"

 

[dexter75]

Thanks Jaiddie!

Agreed!

A great investigator, IMO!

I enjoy the various articles you post, however these are my favorite!!

Thanks!:applause:

http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-th...erer-an-fbi-agents-take-episode-6-part-1-of-3

"Moore to the Story: An FBI Agent's Take on MaM: Episode 6 Testing the Evidence Part 1"

I swear, I absolutely love this guy....he even takes INVESTIGATION NOTES as he goes along (just like REAL investigators do in REAL investigations...wink wink MCSD!) and that is what makes his analysis so enlightening to me (the fact that he uses his real career training to come to his conclusions). I have to also admit that I get some pleasure in finding out that MANY of his questions have been raised here first and discussed at length.

 

[missy1974]

Jaiddie..... you are slipping LOL here is Episode 6 part 3 of 3 of Moore to the Story

http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-th...erer-an-fbi-agents-take-episode-6-part-3-of-3

So this guy actually figured he would find out that SA was guilty IIRC from his earlier recaps. In this one... he is recapping the bones ... ironically, dexter, you just commented about this LOL He brings up things that we have already talked about, but he does have a few minor facts wrong (like ST and Bobby living in the same house, they didn't at that time). I don't think he has researched much at this point, I could be wrong.

And now he says:
Ultimately, I now think that while Steven Avery remains a suspect, I wouldn't put him at or near the top of my list.

 

[dexter75]

This has been said before.

No one is disputing this.

To most of us, the reason we are here sleuthing THIS case ( SA ) (along with reading records, transcripts, proving points, banging our heads against the wall )

in my opinion, the total disregard for a human life, as well as truth & justice appear to be nearly obsolete, where this case is concerned.

Perfection? No one expects this.

Corruption at every level, in this case and MANY others around the world?

CORRUPTION, at the very hands that swear to protect and serve?

I would hope we would all want to look to solutions for making our system better, for the sake of all of us. I know I'm just some desperate supporter, I'm very sincere when I say this FBI agent has a pretty decent angle on the case, since many are all about making sense. HE even says there is pretty much no shot of a fair trial with KK prosecuting and Willis sitting that bench. Sad.

And I think of TH a lot.
It brings tears to my eyes to think if indeed her real killer is free, and her family has been put through all of this hell, what a shame. ( Not my choice of words btw )
I also think of her family STILL having to listen to KK narrative, every time I think about this case. Or look at her photo.

Yeah, In a perfect world, we would have a perfect system.

Checks and balances are built into the system because people are human and mistakes can (and do) get made even when everyone is trying their very best.

That's why the burden is 100% on the state to prove the charges, the defendant never has to prove anything at all, the jury has to be unanimous to convict, every conviction can be appealed and the state pays, there are multiple appeal levels possible. If a constitutional right has been violated the accused will (often) prevail, eventually.

All those checks and balances make many families of victims feel like their loved one didn't get the same consideration and everyone is bending over backwards to protect the rights of the "killer." Ironic, that.

No system is perfect and if there is one that's perfect I'd like someone to tell us what that is and who has that system.

 

[Jaiddie]

Jaiddie..... you are slipping LOL here is Episode 6 part 3 of 3 of Moore to the Story

http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-th...erer-an-fbi-agents-take-episode-6-part-3-of-3

So this guy actually figured he would find out that SA was guilty IIRC from his earlier recaps. In this one... he is recapping the bones ... ironically, dexter, you just commented about this LOL He brings up things that we have already talked about, but he does have a few minor facts wrong (like ST and Bobby living in the same house, they didn't at that time). I don't think he has researched much at this point, I could be wrong.

And now he says:
Ultimately, I now think that while Steven Avery remains a suspect, I wouldn't put him at or near the top of my list.

Thanks missy!
Yea, was just coming here to post it, LOL.

I don't think he has done ANY research yet, IMO. I think he is just analyzing each episode so far using his own experience and background. I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall when he actually DOES go into the evidence and transcripts for himself, haha. Also, I have decided that I want this guy cloned and put in charge of ALL homicide investigations everywhere in the US.

I especially enjoyed the following qoute from him:

"If the prosecutor believes that Stephen Avery killed Teresa Halbach in his trailer or his garage, and then piled her body in to the RAV4 to drive her 20 feet to the bonfire, Mr. Kratz has been overmedicating himself."