For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[Safeguard]

Ok...So, I've been reading Steven Moores, (Moore To The Story), website. There he shares his personal take on MAM, ( point by point, each episode).
I'm enjoying it, I find it extremely interesting, (as are the comments below each of the pieces). I love his take on: Key Evidence (particularly "Late To The garage Sale" analogy. So I want to share that. (Good job on all parts of MAM though, in particular his views on RH and also those who claim the doc was "Fake" or Biased ect...)

Because he was with the FBI for so long, his insight into the case is illuminating, (to say the least!). ( Link's provided below)...


click to make Huuuggggeee :0

"The prosecution explains the miraculous appearance of the key by claiming that it fell from a bookcase that had been searched on November 5 and November 8. Lt. Lenk himself stated in his testimony that on those days, he witnessed the bookcase being emptied of magazines and paperwork so that it could be more carefully searched. This was not a large bookcase. It had just a couple of shelves and was easily searched. It is inconceivable to me that the bookcase could have been searched and the Toyota key missed. This borders on impossible in my opinion. Yet, the prosecution claims that the key was somehow in or on the bookcase, possibly lodged in a secret or invisible area. When the bookcase was moved, the keys were dislodged and fell on the floor. Let's think about that for a second:

For a key to have fallen from any point on the bookcase, (especially considering that nothing else fell at that time), it would have had to be adjacent to an edge of the bookcase; a shelf or on the top, etc.
The key and fob would have been in plain sight. Why? Because if it was blocked from view by an object, that object would have had to have fallen first.
The key couldn't have fallen through an object concealing it.
Therefore, throughout the entire search that day, with three trained detectives and a new, enthusiastic deputy, with the key and fob in plain sight, they didn't see it until it was on the ground. I call shenanigans.


Finally, the bookcase had been searched and more than once, and on at least one occasion moved around with some gusto. It didn't fall then?

Another completely senseless statement was made on the stand. It was testified that when they saw the key, they immediately knew that it was "...an important piece of evidence." Really? How?

I recall from early photographs of that exact same bookshelf, that a large wad of keys were visible on the shelf. Why, all of a sudden, was a single key nobody had ever seen before instantly determined to be a crucial piece of evidence--even if they recognized it as a Toyota key? In an auto yard where there are literally thousands of vehicles, most of which arrived at the recycle yard with keys in them, would a single unidentified key be instantly recognized as crucial evidence? No. In my humble opinion, they knew suspiciously quickly the significance of that key."

LATE TO THE GARAGE SALE:



"And frankly, there was absolutely no reason to believe that any evidence of any significance would be found in that room.

You ever show up late to a garage sale? Anything good left when you got there? Usually just a few broken toys and an exercise machine. The first people at the garage sale got the good stuff. The second group likely found any bargains that the first missed, and the third mopped up. When you got there, the owners were cleaning up and about to toss the rest of the non-sold junk. Searches are like that. The first people in the search area find the best stuff. If there's a second search, anything missed by the first is discovered. Frankly, I've never been on a search that went through three 'passes' over the same territory. The expectations of finding anything in that room had to be near zero. But amazingly, we have Lenk, Colburn and Remiker there. Why? It's going to be a dry hole and these experienced investigators had to have known that. But there they were. That doesn't make sense to me. Neither does their immediate conclusion that they had something important that nobody else had found before....

SO?

Based on what I know at this point, I cannot help but come to the conclusion that the Toyota key was planted in that room by Lenk, Colburn or Remiker, and my belief is that Lenk is the most likely candidate.

That evidence was planted does not automatically make Steven Avery guilty of murder, nor does clear him of murder. As I have said many times, the police in different jurisdictions have "helped" the conviction of guilty men as well as innocent men. Just because the police are willing to plant evidence doesn't make the suspect innocent. It might make convicting him (legally) problematic, however.

The claim that Manitowoc County Sheriff's Office was an uninvolved, uninterested party in this investigation is a sham."

http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-th...erer-an-fbi-agents-take-episode-7-part-1-of-2

(An easier to follow categorized index) https://wronglyconvictedgroup.wordpress.com/2016/03/11/steve-moore-on-making-a-murderer/

 

[missy1974]

I am reading an article called Defendants Memo on TH (number 18)... it is about the diary or note book or whatever it is.. anyway they objected to evidence he was "a religious girl, who demonstrated efforts towards remaining safe from harm"..
I have no clue hoe to post the document here.. but anyway.. then it goes on to imply if her diary/notebook would "open doors" to a place the prosecution don't want to open.. this is how I am reading it... I can be wrong in my understanding of this ... so I am asking for someone to explain this to me!! It is making me crazy!!

We don't know what that means. But in the end, I think the State agreed to not bring up that she was a "religious girl, who demonstrated efforts towards remaining safe from harm", and the Defense agreed not to bring in the info they had. Diary? maybe.

I think Teresa was an average girl her age, she maybe documented her love life? And maybe there was nothing in there that could be used, whether ethically or legally, but if the State brought up she was a "good girl", it would open the door to the Defense saying "oh no she wasn't".

Somewhere in the documents, I think in the post-trial appeals, this "agreement" was brought up. In a way of trying to show Buting/Strang were ineffective, IIRC.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

You did an awesome job spotting that, BCA, and it must feel great that these new docs probably confirm you were absolutely correct.

Thanks~~but credit is due to the guy who posted the video.

On that same page though a little further down~~~"I photographed and collected duct tape from the bed of a pickup truck that was parked next to the residence. The plate number on the truck was AC6271".

So who owns that pickup truck?

 

[Safeguard]

A little more on Moore:
(For those one or two people in the known universe, who haven't seen MAM, this is great breakdown on the entire situation.
Very enjoyable read, and great reference ).

Now...I know there are a few people who don't think the Colburn calling in the plate number was all THAT significant, and looked at in a few ways, it might not seem like it, but I have always felt that was VERY significant because of his body language when he testified. He looked all shifty, uncomfortable, and OhmygodImbusted-ish... I have always felt like he was hiding something huge... Now I have a better idea why I feel that way:
( Please don't take away my Recess! LOL!).

"Let’s just look at that call for just a second. Wiegert was working the missing person case because Halbach was missing from Calumet County. Why then, did he decide to call an individual deputy, from a different county, on the phone, to notify him of this case? I can understand that he wanted to get the news out to surrounding counties, but I would want to know what other counties Wiegert called. Or did he only call the county in which Steven Avery resided?

In this type of situation, the investigator in charge of the missing person case would, in my experience, do the following: Notify via police communications and computer networks, the details about the missing person and the case, along with vehicle information, possible suspect information, and any other thing that might be relevant. They would also try (at least in smaller towns) to get the information on the missing person broadcast on local television in hopes of leads or sightings. Finally, if they were really zealous, they would contact the watch commander at the surrounding counties and notify them of the details of the investigation. The watch sergeant, then, would, if appropriate, communicate simultaneously with all units on patrol, either by radio or by computer terminal (depending on the equipment used by different departments).

For a detective in one jurisdiction to single out a single deputy in a single county, at night, and call him directly indicates two things:


The investigator had the deputy’s cellphone number. Why?
This was not a normal communication.


It is fundamentally troubling to me that shortly after Colburn says he received the abnormal communication from Wiegert is when he telephoned in the request for registration information on “SWH-582.” Additionally, any standard missing-person report involving someone whose car was missing, would include the license plate number of the vehicle. So if Wiegert was simply providing a routine missing-person report to another law enforcement officer, Colburn would have had the license plate number. Absolutely. No doubt.

Frankly, this scenario is not inconsistent with an investigator from one jurisdiction calling an officer in his or another jurisdiction and having him check out a location for him. Those favors are not unusual. Did Wiegert call up a buddy (he had his personal cellphone number) and ask him to check a location for Halbach’s car? And was Colburn’s call to the dispatcher in Manitowoc County an attempt to verify what he found?

As troubling as this question is, it is small compared to the issue of how Colburn apparently called to check on SWH-582.

The information Colburn sought on SWH-582 is a request similar to one I have made dozens, if not hundreds of times; a request for vehicle registration and “wants and warrants,” of a particular vehicle. This check will tell the officer whether the vehicle or its owner is wanted for any crime, or whether the car is stolen or not, along with a dozen other important pieces of information.

Every single time a policeman stops a vehicle on the freeway or road, (most of the time before the red lights even go on), the policeman calls is what we in California call a “10-28, 10-29;” the record of the vehicle registration and wants and warrants. This is for officer safety. It’s so that before the officer approaches the car, he knows whether the car he’s just stopped is listed is stolen, or the driver is wanted for a murder. This information is obviously crucial. Besides forgetting to put bullets in their gun at the beginning of the shift, failing to call in a 10-28/29 in to dispatch prior to a stop is the last thing that an officer would forget to do. So on the evening of November 3, 2005, Colburn calls for a 10-28/29. Standard operating procedure. But guess what? He doesn't do it on the radio. He uses his phone.

There is no good reason, especially if he’s in or near his cruiser, for him not to make the request on the radio. The deputies in Manitowoc County carry their radios on their bodies, with the microphones up by their left shoulder. Even if Colburn were out of his car, with one click, he could have requested the information he needed. In my entire career, the only time I didn’t use a radio for my 10-28, 10-29 checks were when I was writing a report at my desk. Using a cellphone to contact dispatch for wants and warrants when your radio is operational is unusual in the extreme. It's just not the way it's done, and it raises many serious questions.

One reason one would not want to call in a request for wants and warrants on the radio is that others would hear. Usually, that isn’t a problem. In fact, it’s another safety factor for officers. They get to hear the location of other officers and the cars they are stopping in case of an emergency or the stopping officer needs a backup. So why not use the radio if it’s the easiest, most efficient and safe thing to do?

I gave Colburn the benefit of the doubt. Strange things happen on patrol. I waited for Colburn to simply explain why he had done it that way; that he was writing a report and needed the information on that vehicle, that he had a suspect in the car with him and didn’t want the information broadcast back over a radio that could be heard by the suspect, or at least something that would explain the cryptic call. No answer came. If Colburn had a good answer, you would think that he would tell the court.

Absent any credible answer, one is allowed to suspect that there were nefarious reasons for the clandestine registration verification. Why, if Colburn had been given a missing-person report, did he not know the license plate of the RAV4? Why did he not just cross-reference it? Did he not know that the dispatch phone line was also recorded? Some officers don’t realize that.

I would want to pin down exactly what time the call was made from Wiegert to Colburn. Phone records could do that. If that call occurred prior to Colburn’s phone call to dispatch, then we can legitimately question why in the world he would call in for information on a plate he was just given, and whether he had been directed to Halbach’s car.

If the call was after the 10-28/29 phone request, then Colburn’s problems are just as immense, because he didn’t know the license number of the missing person’s car prior to that. It could have been the moment that he stumbled on the car—wherever it was. I would want cellphone records to determine which cellphone towers were ‘pinging’ Colburn’s phone at that time he called in the registration request. If he wasn’t in the vicinity of the Avery Recycling yard, then there’s a big, big, problem. This radio call may be the most damning piece of evidence I have seen in Episode 5.

Interestingly, as Colburn was testifying to this strange, inexplicable action, he was literally wringing his hands and moving them up to his chest and down as if he’d momentarily forgotten the training he was given to ‘always get to keep your hands on the desk and speak in a matter-of-fact tone.’ His eyebrows took on a surprised, possibly fearful look.

Understand that I am not saying that those physical observations are indications of deception. I am not a human lie detector. However, they are obvious signs of stress on the part of the witness, Colburn. And when seeing such obvious signs of stress, one has to ask themselves why the witness has suddenly become so stressed when particular questions are posed. Deception is on the list of potential reasons for stress. But the important word in my last statement is ‘potential.’ It is not a certain determiner of guilt.

But I assure you, Colburn, Kratz, Bobby Dassey, Ryan Hillegas and Scott Bloedorn have a lot of questions to answer."
http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-th...erer-an-fbi-agents-take-episode-5-part-1-of-3

 

[missy1974]

Thanks~~but credit is due to the guy who posted the video.

On that same page though a little further down~~~"I photographed and collected duct tape from the bed of a pickup truck that was parked next to the residence. The plate number on the truck was AC6271".

So who owns that pickup truck?

One of the Dassey boys? I looked in the Caso report... this is the only mention of "AC6271".

 

[missy1974]

omg, so I did a search of "DUCT TAPE" in the CASO Report... look at the first thing that popped up...

Page 96 of CASO Report...

At 2048 hours, Sg1. COLBORN re-entered STEVEN AVERY's bedroom to retrieve previously
bagged items of evidence when he noticed a roll of duct tape on top of the dresser in STEVEN
AVERY's bedroom. Sgt. COLBORN did collect that piece of evidence at 2048 hours.

This is on November 5th, first day of the search.

Then balls of duct tape seem to pop up???? It actually made me LOL

 

[zerbert]

I am reading an article called Defendants Memo on TH (number 18)... it is about the diary or note book or whatever it is.. anyway they objected to evidence he was "a religious girl, who demonstrated efforts towards remaining safe from harm"..
I have no clue hoe to post the document here.. but anyway.. then it goes on to imply if her diary/notebook would "open doors" to a place the prosecution don't want to open.. this is how I am reading it... I can be wrong in my understanding of this ... so I am asking for someone to explain this to me!! It is making me crazy!!

There was something about her taking boudoir photos of BC and his wife (soon to be ex-wife). TH and BC then hooked up, and the divorce was finalized right before TH disappeared. I'm going off memory so it may not be 100% correct, but it's in the neighborhood.

Slandering the reputation of the victim during a murder trial would not look good for either side, so I think Buting and Strang wanted to keep that issue under wraps. Whether it ended up being related, who knows.

Edit: That divorce was finalized 10/28/2005 and there was a harassment restraining order filed for by the wife in Oct 2004. October is not the month to visit that part of the world.

 

[missy1974]

I believe those photo's of BC and his wife were also brought up in their divorce... and TH may have had to go to court, but without searching, I am not positive, so will say ... JMO? lol

 

[Wendy101]

Wow!! IMO her lifestyle is very relevant ..especially if she turns up dead.. I sure hope BC and wife were investigated...

Also, if she was present in the pics with BC and wife, I am going to assume this wasn't the first couple she experienced that with.. I now wonder if there is more ex-partners that may be involved.. and I don't mean to be disrespectful of TH.. no at all.. just that her sex life DOES matter when u turn up murdered.

 

[Safeguard]

Wow!! IMO her lifestyle is very relevant ..especially if she turns up dead.. I sure hope BC and wife were investigated...

Also, if she was present in the pics with BC and wife, I am going to assume this wasn't the first couple she experienced that with.. I now wonder if there is more ex-partners that may be involved.. and I don't mean to be disrespectful of TH.. no at all.. just that her sex life DOES matter when u turn up murdered.

I'm sure they weren't investigated. Because...You know...Steve Avery...He killed a cat once and stuff.

 

[IDK]

Safeguard, Thanks for posting the quotes and information from the Moore website. He's a great writer and his perspective as former FBI is fascinating IMO

 

[Safeguard]

Safeguard, Thanks for posting the quotes and information from the Moore website. He's a great writer and his perspective as former FBI is fascinating IMO

Your welcome.
He really is good. I read it all and all the comments too, and I was wishing there was more! Thats where I got my earlier quotes about KK. Here are some of the best ones. I am really impressed with his take on the FACTS. Plus his credentials are impressive. bbm:


To be clear, I am certain about some things, because they are self-evident and do not require scientific confirmation. I believe that the evidence provided in the documentary is conclusive proof (at least in my professional opinion) that the prosecution of Steven Avery was conducted by an unscrupulous prosecutor more concerned about a conviction than he was the truth."



"The episodes also provided sufficient evidence to prove to me, beyond any reasonable doubt, that Brendan Dassey’s ‘confession’ was absolute, police-fed, fantasy. My strong belief is that Brendan Dassey had nothing to do with the disappearance or murder of Teresa Halbach in any way, though I still want to confirm that with the evidence I have not yet seen."

"I believe that from a professional and moral standpoint, Len Kachinsky stabbed Brendan Dassey in the back, and with the help of Michael O’Kelly, bears significant responsibility for the loss of a decade (and counting) of the life of Brendan Dassey."
I am convinced that evidence proves conclusively that Teresa Halbach was not murdered in Steven Avery’s garage or home.

"I believe that the investigation conducted by Manitowoc and Calumet County Sheriff’s investigators, as well as Special Agent Fassbender from the Wisconsin Department of Justice was pathetic. It was the result of either gross incompetence or intentional (criminal) evidence planting—or both. I am not yet ready to say where I come down on that aspect."

"The rulings and courtroom conduct of Judges Patrick Willis and Jerome Fox were appalling. I personally believe that both judges were strongly biased in favor of the prosecution. How could Judge Fox remove a defense attorney for allowing an unrepresented interrogation of a client, then allow the results of that interrogation to be admitted as evidence?

LEANINGS

"The following are just some of the items about which I have a very preliminary opinion, which I believe might well be influenced by more substantial evidence.

"I have serious questions as to the behavior of certain officers during this investigation, among them Lt. Lenk and Sgt. Colburn.
The fact that people who reasonable investigators around the country would consider prime suspects (ex-boyfriend, male roommate, obsessive caller), were apparently ignored during the investigation is stupefying."

"Because of Kratz’ incomprehensible decision to expose his case file like an exhibitionist in a trench coat family and friends of Theresa Halbach were subjected to a horrific (though fictional) description of her death. “Stabbed in the stomach with a butcher knife….throat slit….still begging for her life…..not dying…” are gut-wrenching, heartbreaking mental images I doubt her loved ones will ever forget."

( I will add here, I think her "Loved Ones" were warned ahead of time NOT to watch that news conference. I am positive of it. Moore doesn't seem completely on board, with the complexities, and just how evil this thing really got. Maybe he does now, or will soon.).

INVESTIGATOR’S NOTES

"Michael O’Kelly and Len Kachinsky were wildly biased against Brendan Dassey before they saw the first piece of evidence.
O’Kelly should never be allowed to testify in a courtroom again.
Len Kachinsky is an embarrassment to the legal profession.
Wiegert may not even have the ‘horsepower’ it would take to successfully plant evidence.
I thought Kratz was enjoying the descriptions of an alleged sexual crime a little too much.
If you think about it, there’s now more demonstrative, proven evidence of sexual deviance by Ken Kratz than there is of Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey – combined. (A date to an autopsy? No wonder he looked a little sweaty describing the fictitious version of the murder of Halbach.)
If Kratz’ ability to keep his disgusting behavior (sexting the victim of domestic abuse???) a secret for a year with the help of the Wisconsin DOJ isn’t proof of a corrupt system, what is?
Why didn’t Governor Foley prosecute Kratz?
Kratz complains that his reputation would take a hit just because of an accusation? Really? Sucks, huh?
Kratz laments that he’s forgotten. As long as I’m alive, he won’t be."

 

[Tulessa]

A good show on Reelz, and it will air again tonight. Murder Made me Famous, Stephen Avery.
http://www.reelz.com/

 

[Safeguard]

A good show on Reelz, and it will air again tonight. Murder Made me Famous, Stephen Avery.
http://www.reelz.com/

I think they should do a show on just Avery/Dassey titled: Karma made me famous. Because some real justice is finally being served!

 

[missy1974]

A good show on Reelz, and it will air again tonight. Murder Made me Famous, Stephen Avery.
http://www.reelz.com/

From everything I heard about that show, I doubt you will find many here that will call it "good" LOL Unless of course people still believe the Kratz story of how Teresa died.

And to think... people say MaM causes heartache to the family. And garbage like "Murder Made me Famous" that re-enacts a gruesome murder that no one has any evidence of doesn't? Yep, that sounds "good". I will pass.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

One of the Dassey boys? I looked in the Caso report... this is the only mention of "AC6271".

Well, interesting....BrD didn't have a car~~we know that. BlD didn't drive, so who does that leave?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Wow!! IMO her lifestyle is very relevant ..especially if she turns up dead.. I sure hope BC and wife were investigated...

Also, if she was present in the pics with BC and wife, I am going to assume this wasn't the first couple she experienced that with.. I now wonder if there is more ex-partners that may be involved.. and I don't mean to be disrespectful of TH.. no at all.. just that her sex life DOES matter when u turn up murdered.

She wasn't present IN the pictures...she took them, remember she was a photographer.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Didn't want to copy your whole post~~but good read!

Kratz complains that his reputation would take a hit just because of an accusation? Really? Sucks, huh?

I wonder if he considered his reputation BEFORE his crimes. Yes, they were crimes, those poor women were victimized.

 

[Safeguard]

Didn't want to copy your whole post~~but good read!

Kratz complains that his reputation would take a hit just because of an accusation? Really? Sucks, huh?

I wonder if he considered his reputation BEFORE his crimes. Yes, they were crimes, those poor women were victimized.

Thanks. I know it was lengthy, and in a world of shrinking attention spans, where people think anything longer than a tweet involves too much effort, I appreciate that you read it BCA.

Krats is revolting I agree! Preying on the vulnerable, and abusing his power over them. He is one sick sob!

 

[Karinna]

Wow!! IMO her lifestyle is very relevant ..especially if she turns up dead.. I sure hope BC and wife were investigated...

Also, if she was present in the pics with BC and wife, I am going to assume this wasn't the first couple she experienced that with.. I now wonder if there is more ex-partners that may be involved.. and I don't mean to be disrespectful of TH.. no at all.. just that her sex life DOES matter when u turn up murdered.

BBM, I agree most definitely TH's contacts should of been investigated. Did she have any enemies at all? I think there is so little we know about the victim, but unless her life comes under scrutiny how can anyone know what her lifestyle was and who she hung out with?
But then the whole investigation was a mess and we know why if SA is innocent of TH's death. IMO.