For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[Karinna]

Question - the scratches on Bobby D back - is that recorded anywhere? Were they fresh scratches - from what I recall he said his cat did it/

Has Bobby ever visited Brenden? I have a serious problem with BoD

I agree he is a serious problem, especially with the content on the computer. Why was he not charged with that i wonder?

 

[Jaiddie]

Question - the scratches on Bobby D back - is that recorded anywhere? Were they fresh scratches - from what I recall he said his cat did it/

Has Bobby ever visited Brenden? I have a serious problem with BoD

BoD said that the scratches came from playing with his puppy and I do not remember ever seeing or hearing about any photos being taken of said scratches as evidence. Stands to reason that they decided not to go there though since they were not very big on pics and it would have possibly pointed in a direction that did not line up with their chosen narratives, imo. smh.

 

[missy1974]

Question - the scratches on Bobby D back - is that recorded anywhere? Were they fresh scratches - from what I recall he said his cat did it/

Has Bobby ever visited Brenden? I have a serious problem with BoD

I don't see much about Bobby at all... the family posts pics of when they all visit, but can't recall one with Bobby. Not sure I have seen one with his other brothers either though, so not sure how much can be read into that.

I did read on the family FB page the other day when this was filed... I don't think they got a heads up about it at all. I am not sure if KZ is trying to point a finger at Bobby and ST, but she is definitely showing that there was way more that should have been investigated, and it's very possible that Bobby would have met the Denny rule allowing the defense to point the finger at someone else, which in turn could have shown reasonable doubt! The fact that Buting and Strang didn't even interview Bobby before he testified is not new either, we knew this from the transcript, but laid out the way KZ did, it sure seems more important now!

And don't be silly.... no one takes pics of evidence there! LOL I do recall reading it in a report though, that would be the closest thing to a "record" of it.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I don't see much about Bobby at all... the family posts pics of when they all visit, but can't recall one with Bobby. Not sure I have seen one with his other brothers either though, so not sure how much can be read into that.

I did read on the family FB page the other day when this was filed... I don't think they got a heads up about it at all. I am not sure if KZ is trying to point a finger at Bobby and ST, but she is definitely showing that there was way more that should have been investigated, and it's very possible that Bobby would have met the Denny rule allowing the defense to point the finger at someone else, which in turn could have shown reasonable doubt! The fact that Buting and Strang didn't even interview Bobby before he testified is not new either, we knew this from the transcript, but laid out the way KZ did, it sure seems more important now!

And don't be silly.... no one takes pics of evidence there! LOL I do recall reading it in a report though, that would be the closest thing to a "record" of it.

LOL~~~You are too funny Missy!!! No pictures :laughing:

The only recollection I have about Bobby and the scratches would have been when he went to Aurora Medical Center for the DNA swabs. That is when the scratches were noted, IIRC. Is it standard procedure to take pictures during an event like that, IDK? I suspect they would and if they did KZ has copies of the pictures most likely or they may have disappeared like the Zipperer's phone recording or like Missy said not taken at all.

My question is~~Barb's house was searched before the found the key. Could they have known all along who was responsible, but decided they could get rid of the lawsuit by pinning it on SA? It would fit the narrative and comment from Kachinsky's investigator (Kelly) saying something to the effect that the whole family was bad news.

 

[Karinna]

Wonder what the heck did really happen in this case? There is Bobby with scratches on his back and RH with fingernail like scratches on his face,
And SA has said he thought BoD & ST probably set him up because of the family business and jealousy over the money he stood to get in the civil case.
That Manitowoc county sounds like a real hornets nest IMO.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

What's more interesting is that Robert Fabian noticed a green jeep on STH 147 by the river and now KZ has a witness who told Colburn that he ALSO saw a green jeep by the river and reported it but Colburn didn't make a report. Wasn't there also another older gentleman that called in a report about another vehicle by the river which was said to be unrelated and a report was made?

 

[missy1974]

BCA ~ I think there was a dispatch call made (someone was making it for someone else), and they were transferred to CASO, so we never heard all the info.


New article from RollingStone

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...implicates-new-avery-nephew-in-murder-w510242

"By not granting us an evidentiary hearing all of our factual allegations must be taken as true which puts us in a powerful position to win a reversal on appeal," Zellner tells Rolling Stone. "The trial judge may have inadvertently done us a big favor. This is a case that will have to be won in a higher court, I believe. The undisputed facts [will] show that Steven Avery was convicted on planted evidence and perjured testimony. And nothing we have uncovered in our investigation changes our view that both Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey are 100% innocent."


Few other interesting things in there too.

 

[Karinna]

BCA ~ I think there was a dispatch call made (someone was making it for someone else), and they were transferred to CASO, so we never heard all the info.


New article from RollingStone

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...implicates-new-avery-nephew-in-murder-w510242

"By not granting us an evidentiary hearing all of our factual allegations must be taken as true which puts us in a powerful position to win a reversal on appeal," Zellner tells Rolling Stone. "The trial judge may have inadvertently done us a big favor. This is a case that will have to be won in a higher court, I believe. The undisputed facts [will] show that Steven Avery was convicted on planted evidence and perjured testimony. And nothing we have uncovered in our investigation changes our view that both Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey are 100% innocent."


Few other interesting things in there too.

Thanks for posting the info. Good that KZ got a gift from the judge,

 

[dexter75]

Thanks for posting the info. Good that KZ got a gift from the judge,

Early Christmas gift? Lol
Anything is possible! Especially where this case is concerned.
JMO

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[Karinna]

Early Christmas gift? Lol
Anything is possible! Especially where this case is concerned.
JMO

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Haha, yeah agree, like a box of chocolates, lol.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

BCA ~ I think there was a dispatch call made (someone was making it for someone else), and they were transferred to CASO, so we never heard all the info.


New article from RollingStone

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...implicates-new-avery-nephew-in-murder-w510242

"By not granting us an evidentiary hearing all of our factual allegations must be taken as true which puts us in a powerful position to win a reversal on appeal," Zellner tells Rolling Stone. "The trial judge may have inadvertently done us a big favor. This is a case that will have to be won in a higher court, I believe. The undisputed facts [will] show that Steven Avery was convicted on planted evidence and perjured testimony. And nothing we have uncovered in our investigation changes our view that both Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey are 100% innocent."


Few other interesting things in there too.

Hi Missy!! :seeya:

I think you are thinking about this guy.

KOEHNKE advised me that he saw a unit parked in the turnaround in Mishicot just west of Mishicot on Thursday,lll04l05. He stated the vehicle was parked facing east and that he observed a large hole in the windshield as well as alarge hole in the driver's side window. KOEHNKE stated when he heard about HALBACH's vehicle missing, he thought, perhaps, this was the one.KOEHNKE stated, "The one on television wasn't the same color." He further indicated the vehicle shown on television as a result of the preliminary hearing on 12106105 did not seem to be the same unit.

Page 353 of the CASO Report.

I was talking about this.

Around 8:00 a.m. on Thursday,11/03/05, ROBERT FABIAN states he did observe a green jeep backed all the way up at a parking area on STH 147 by the river. ROBERT described this area as a turnaround. ROBERT recalls seeing this jeep at 8:00 a.m. because he had seen a male subject talking on TV about a green jeep being in the area.

Page 320 of the CASO Reports.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf

So it looks like KZ has 2 different people who can place a green jeep over by the river on 147.

 

[missy1974]

Hi Missy!! :seeya:

I think you are thinking about this guy.

KOEHNKE advised me that he saw a unit parked in the turnaround in Mishicot just west of Mishicot on Thursday,lll04l05. He stated the vehicle was parked facing east and that he observed a large hole in the windshield as well as alarge hole in the driver's side window. KOEHNKE stated when he heard about HALBACH's vehicle missing, he thought, perhaps, this was the one.KOEHNKE stated, "The one on television wasn't the same color." He further indicated the vehicle shown on television as a result of the preliminary hearing on 12106105 did not seem to be the same unit.

Page 353 of the CASO Report.

I was talking about this.

Around 8:00 a.m. on Thursday,11/03/05, ROBERT FABIAN states he did observe a green jeep backed all the way up at a parking area on STH 147 by the river. ROBERT described this area as a turnaround. ROBERT recalls seeing this jeep at 8:00 a.m. because he had seen a male subject talking on TV about a green jeep being in the area.

Page 320 of the CASO Reports.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf

So it looks like KZ has 2 different people who can place a green jeep over by the river on 147.

Okay... so is Koehnke the one that called in to dispatch? There was a call make to MTSO, it was someone calling for someone else, it was transferred to CASO, so we don't know much more about it.

Then the one that KZ mentions in the new motion, it's a different person, Kevin Rahmlow. According to his affidavit, he said he saw it on November 3 or 4th, he was in Mishicot, he saw TH's vehicle by the East Twin River Dam in MIshicot at the turnabout, as he drove west on Highway 147.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-2017-Motion-for-Reconsideration-Exhibits.pdf page 18


Are they all talking about the same place???

 

[missy1974]

KZ tweeted tonight...




Only person I can think she is aiming this at is Barb? JMO


ETA: also just read that Steven asked someone to post on a FB page that if they have ever been threatened by Scott Tadych to contact KZ.

 

[Jaiddie]

KZ tweeted tonight...

Only person I can think she is aiming this at is Barb? JMO


ETA: also just read that Steven asked someone to post on a FB page that if they have ever been threatened by Scott Tadych to contact KZ.

Hi, missy. I am not sure about the rules here regarding FB, but thought this might be allowed since it was not taken from anyone's personal FB account but from one of the SA groups sett up there.

https://imgur.com/gallery/Fnd7G

 

[Jaiddie]

https://i.imgur.com/ONOaaO1.jpg

Just read this from one of the SA FB groups. It was posted by BD oldest brother (half brother, rather) who was the one who made a rap video in honor of SA n BD shortly after the documentary came out. He has been off the radar for awhile but seems to be sticking his oar back in now, so to speak. His name has been marked out so there is no doxxing possible. If it helps,his initials are BD (of course they are since everyone in that family has a B name lol) and rhythms with bad.

 

[dexter75]

https://i.imgur.com/ONOaaO1.jpg

Just read this from one of the SA FB groups. It was posted by BD oldest brother (half brother, rather) who was the one who made a rap video in honor of SA n BD shortly after the documentary came out. He has been off the radar for awhile but seems to be sticking his oar back in now, so to speak. His name has been marked out so there is no doxxing possible. If it helps,his initials are BD (of course they are since everyone in that family has a B name lol) and rhythms with bad.

Sooner or later, the truth always comes out[emoji173]
The lies, deceit, and manipulation.
Right before our very eye's ladies & gents.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Karinna]

Sooner or later, the truth always comes out[emoji173]
The lies, deceit, and manipulation.
Right before our very eye's ladies & gents.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Exactly, and the more that comes out about this case the more it does out what actually went on in it, IMO.

 

[Saul Vesalot]

I have been thinking. This case is crazy

Think about this....

1) Ryan hacked into Teresa's Cingular account very easily and deleted stuff. He inserted himself into the investigation and had mysterious wounds. Had some weird complicated, hard to understand relationship with Teresa. The killer is usually someone close to the victim, like 80% of the time. He coordinated search teams and the only team he gave a camera to was the only team that ever needed one, also they only searched for a few minutes before they made their major discovery.*

2) Bobby had child *advertiser censored*, rape *advertiser censored*, and pictures of dead women on his computer. Being near the crime scene would be perfectly normal and he has a lot of time alone. Bear would have been familiar with him*

3) Scott is...Scott. If he's in your family, you hope he ends up in prison before Thanksgiving. He leapt for joy when Steven was found guilty. Hates Steven, threatens to kill him. Has a history of violence. Someone writes an anonymous letter possibly implicating him; the letter mentions burning Teresa's body before that is public knowledge. So maybe some real insider info going on. Also lived close to the scene where the body was found. Important witness in the trial that convicted Avery. Bear would have been familiar enough with him to not bark.*

Now, what is my point?
I don't think all these people teamed up. If one of these people is guilty, the rest of that stuff is a coincidence, and if none are guilty, ALL of that is coincidence. Maybe Scott and one of the Dasseys teamed up, though I semi-strongly doubt it.

But think about how wildly ridiculous this is. Let's say Ryan is guilty, what are the odds that a murder victim coincidentally shows up in the backyard of a guy (Bobby) that is into rape, children, and maybe snuff/necrophilia? I don't see any reason to think they are working together, so...a super sketchy BEST SUSPECT YOU'VE EVER HEARD OF kind of guy gets a body dumped within spitting distance of him. It's like one of those stupid red herring's in detective shows. The guy they make look so guilty you know it is someone else.

But let's say it was Scott...Ryan is doing some stalkerish stuff. I have a hard time believing this was the first time he hacked into her phone records. Just the first time he does so visibly; any other instance could plausibly be Teresa. I think it is more likely he has been doing this for a while to keep tabs on Teresa. But if Scott is guilty, then Ryan is doing really suspicious and visible stuff AFTER the killing; stuff that he doesn't need to be doing if he is innocent. This is probably the first time I have ever heard of a stalker-y guy not being the killer.

If it is Bobby, then is Scott going to put his neck on the line for these kids and get himself involved? No. Barb didn't put her neck on the line for Brendan, why would Scott do it for kids that aren't his and he probably barely knows? And Scott really does seem like an aggressive nutjob. So if Bobby is guilty, would he turn to Scott for help? Why is Scott such a good suspect that Steven and the anonymous letter writer point immediately to him? Just a tangled mess. And ALL of them working together just doesn't make any sense. How do they approach one another for the "Let's team up" chat?

That is how crazy this case is. There might be a pedophile with a collection of dead women photographs involved and his creepiness doesn't even make him stand out of the crowd as the obvious guilty party. And of course, there could be other people involved and all the crazy mentioned above is pure coincidence and is actually immaterial to the case.



*Obviously, there is more to each of these suspects, but just trying to be brief where I can be.

Of these three, who do you choose and why? You can team them up if you want.

Bonus Question! Who is the next possible suspect that KZ points to?

 

[dexter75]

I have been thinking. This case is crazy

Think about this....

1) Ryan hacked into Teresa's Cingular account very easily and deleted stuff. He inserted himself into the investigation and had mysterious wounds. Had some weird complicated, hard to understand relationship with Teresa. The killer is usually someone close to the victim, like 80% of the time. He coordinated search teams and the only team he gave a camera to was the only team that ever needed one, also they only searched for a few minutes before they made their major discovery.*

2) Bobby had child *advertiser censored*, rape *advertiser censored*, and pictures of dead women on his computer. Being near the crime scene would be perfectly normal and he has a lot of time alone. Bear would have been familiar with him*

3) Scott is...Scott. If he's in your family, you hope he ends up in prison before Thanksgiving. He leapt for joy when Steven was found guilty. Hates Steven, threatens to kill him. Has a history of violence. Someone writes an anonymous letter possibly implicating him; the letter mentions burning Teresa's body before that is public knowledge. So maybe some real insider info going on. Also lived close to the scene where the body was found. Important witness in the trial that convicted Avery. Bear would have been familiar enough with him to not bark.*

Now, what is my point?
I don't think all these people teamed up. If one of these people is guilty, the rest of that stuff is a coincidence, and if none are guilty, ALL of that is coincidence. Maybe Scott and one of the Dasseys teamed up, though I semi-strongly doubt it.

But think about how wildly ridiculous this is. Let's say Ryan is guilty, what are the odds that a murder victim coincidentally shows up in the backyard of a guy (Bobby) that is into rape, children, and maybe snuff/necrophilia? I don't see any reason to think they are working together, so...a super sketchy BEST SUSPECT YOU'VE EVER HEARD OF kind of guy gets a body dumped within spitting distance of him. It's like one of those stupid red herring's in detective shows. The guy they make look so guilty you know it is someone else.

But let's say it was Scott...Ryan is doing some stalkerish stuff. I have a hard time believing this was the first time he hacked into her phone records. Just the first time he does so visibly; any other instance could plausibly be Teresa. I think it is more likely he has been doing this for a while to keep tabs on Teresa. But if Scott is guilty, then Ryan is doing really suspicious and visible stuff AFTER the killing; stuff that he doesn't need to be doing if he is innocent. This is probably the first time I have ever heard of a stalker-y guy not being the killer.

If it is Bobby, then is Scott going to put his neck on the line for these kids and get himself involved? No. Barb didn't put her neck on the line for Brendan, why would Scott do it for kids that aren't his and he probably barely knows? And Scott really does seem like an aggressive nutjob. So if Bobby is guilty, would he turn to Scott for help? Why is Scott such a good suspect that Steven and the anonymous letter writer point immediately to him? Just a tangled mess. And ALL of them working together just doesn't make any sense. How do they approach one another for the "Let's team up" chat?

That is how crazy this case is. There might be a pedophile with a collection of dead women photographs involved and his creepiness doesn't even make him stand out of the crowd as the obvious guilty party. And of course, there could be other people involved and all the crazy mentioned above is pure coincidence and is actually immaterial to the case.



*Obviously, there is more to each of these suspects, but just trying to be brief where I can be.

Of these three, who do you choose and why? You can team them up if you want.

Bonus Question! Who is the next possible suspect that KZ points to?

Thank you[emoji6]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Karinna]

I have been thinking. This case is crazy

Think about this....

1) Ryan hacked into Teresa's Cingular account very easily and deleted stuff. He inserted himself into the investigation and had mysterious wounds. Had some weird complicated, hard to understand relationship with Teresa. The killer is usually someone close to the victim, like 80% of the time. He coordinated search teams and the only team he gave a camera to was the only team that ever needed one, also they only searched for a few minutes before they made their major discovery.*

2) Bobby had child *advertiser censored*, rape *advertiser censored*, and pictures of dead women on his computer. Being near the crime scene would be perfectly normal and he has a lot of time alone. Bear would have been familiar with him*

3) Scott is...Scott. If he's in your family, you hope he ends up in prison before Thanksgiving. He leapt for joy when Steven was found guilty. Hates Steven, threatens to kill him. Has a history of violence. Someone writes an anonymous letter possibly implicating him; the letter mentions burning Teresa's body before that is public knowledge. So maybe some real insider info going on. Also lived close to the scene where the body was found. Important witness in the trial that convicted Avery. Bear would have been familiar enough with him to not bark.*

Now, what is my point?
I don't think all these people teamed up. If one of these people is guilty, the rest of that stuff is a coincidence, and if none are guilty, ALL of that is coincidence. Maybe Scott and one of the Dasseys teamed up, though I semi-strongly doubt it.

But think about how wildly ridiculous this is. Let's say Ryan is guilty, what are the odds that a murder victim coincidentally shows up in the backyard of a guy (Bobby) that is into rape, children, and maybe snuff/necrophilia? I don't see any reason to think they are working together, so...a super sketchy BEST SUSPECT YOU'VE EVER HEARD OF kind of guy gets a body dumped within spitting distance of him. It's like one of those stupid red herring's in detective shows. The guy they make look so guilty you know it is someone else.

But let's say it was Scott...Ryan is doing some stalkerish stuff. I have a hard time believing this was the first time he hacked into her phone records. Just the first time he does so visibly; any other instance could plausibly be Teresa. I think it is more likely he has been doing this for a while to keep tabs on Teresa. But if Scott is guilty, then Ryan is doing really suspicious and visible stuff AFTER the killing; stuff that he doesn't need to be doing if he is innocent. This is probably the first time I have ever heard of a stalker-y guy not being the killer.

If it is Bobby, then is Scott going to put his neck on the line for these kids and get himself involved? No. Barb didn't put her neck on the line for Brendan, why would Scott do it for kids that aren't his and he probably barely knows? And Scott really does seem like an aggressive nutjob. So if Bobby is guilty, would he turn to Scott for help? Why is Scott such a good suspect that Steven and the anonymous letter writer point immediately to him? Just a tangled mess. And ALL of them working together just doesn't make any sense. How do they approach one another for the "Let's team up" chat?

That is how crazy this case is. There might be a pedophile with a collection of dead women photographs involved and his creepiness doesn't even make him stand out of the crowd as the obvious guilty party. And of course, there could be other people involved and all the crazy mentioned above is pure coincidence and is actually immaterial to the case.



*Obviously, there is more to each of these suspects, but just trying to be brief where I can be.

Of these three, who do you choose and why? You can team them up if you want.

Bonus Question! Who is the next possible suspect that KZ points to?

I agree this case certainly is crazy with lots of twists & turns. With all the issues KZ has brought forth in her filings to the court it is getting more confusing about who could of been involved in this, and there are multiple candidates. But then i like to try to keep it simple with not too many in on it, because of the problem that could bring if one of them decided to get a conscience and bring the whole thing undone. Which actually could be the case if a very reliable witness or two has come forth, as i think has been stated by KZ already.
I hope the house of cards does collapse and bring all involved exposure for the crimes committed. All IMO.