Forensic evidence
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Veronica10
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Not sure if this is the thread for this but something new occurred to me today. I am re-reading PMPT and I'm at the very beginning where PAM Griffin is standing outside in the cold night watching JonBenet being carried out of the house in a body bag. Pam Griffin keeps expecting Patsy to emerge from the house only to learn she isn't there. Pam and her daughter had rushed to the house on 15th Street after seeing the murder coverage on TV.
That got me thinking how Patsy NEVER ever returned to the house. If I were Patsy and I were innocent, I'd have to go back to find some closure, to smell her clothes, to lay on her bed, to see her toys, to get her favorite things. Patsy could not return to that house because she had participated in and caused the nightmare. I'm sure through her life she had horrible, horrible flashbacks of what occurred that night. It was truly a hellhole for her.
Just thought I'd share, this is bothering me now.
That got me thinking how Patsy NEVER ever returned to the house. If I were Patsy and I were innocent, I'd have to go back to find some closure, to smell her clothes, to lay on her bed, to see her toys, to get her favorite things. Patsy could not return to that house because she had participated in and caused the nightmare. I'm sure through her life she had horrible, horrible flashbacks of what occurred that night. It was truly a hellhole for her.
Just thought I'd share, this is bothering me now.
Veronica, Patsy herself says to Kane, I believe, "I have flashbacks of hearing her scream". A flashback is a memory.
Veronica10
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Yes, Solace, can you just imagine what happened inside 755 15th Street that night. Pure evil is what followed after the rage incident.
In everything, the truth will set you free.
Veronica,
The part that gets me is one of them carried her down to the basement. They actually carried their five year old daughter down to the basement and then one of them defiled her to make it look like an intruder. And someone today had a good point that JB's mouth is open during the autopsy and, Jayelles, it was - said she more than likely had a seizure during the garrotting - Her post is somewhere around here.
We are talking serious insanity here.
Veronica10
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Solace, who do you think twisted that garrotte? John or Patsy? Do you think like Steve Thomas suggests, that John only became involved that morning after Patsy started screaming about the ransom note? Seriously sick people. Seriously.
Just when think I comprehend the case it explodes for me and I'm just left to re-wonder. How could this have happened? How is it possible that the Ramseys never went to jail. The entire "kidnapping scenario" is so over the top and ridiculous. Everytime I read the "War and Peace" ransom note, I just can't believe that a just society would not serve justice for JonBenet. I know I'm rambling but this is really bothering me, especially today.
Anyway, who do you think twisted the garrotte Solace? Who did the staging with the inserted paintbrush?
JMO8778
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sure sounds that way, doesnt it.when asked about the house,PR said to 'torch it'.
Veronica10
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Because it was her crime scene.
coloradokares
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JMO8778
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It seems odd to me that....JB had such soiling and bedwetting issues,yet she was never taken to a specialist.Why????She only saw Dr Beuf,(who was covering something they wanted hidden about JB,IMO).It seems they went out of their way to totally avoid specialists or other Dr's.
SO,then it comes down to Christmas night..something happens,(the head wound)...and all of a sudden...it comes down to where JB HAS to be taken to ER,and she isn't.Was she garroted and killed to avoid other Dr's for that same reason???
Ames
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I have to say that I cried when I read the part of your post that I have highlighted in red. But, you know....Patsy was shown pictures of JB's things....her clothing, her Easter basket, her hair ties, her trophies, her crowns, her backpack, etc....in her interview, and she never got upset. BUT she does get upset when shown the red turtleneck that is rolled up in the bathroom. Now WHY is that? I personally think that JB was wearing that turtleneck, and was pulled up by Patsy twisting the collar, and pulled into the bathroom (by the collar)...and thrown against the tub....all because she wet the bed that night...and Patsy was just a little bit sick of getting up in the middle of the night to change JB and her sheets. I think that Patsy was a little bit tipsy too...she admitted to having cocktails at the White's party. I don't believe that she was drunk...but inebriated enough to fly into a rage, and attack her daughter for wetting the bed. Patsy, imo...just didn't feel like changing sheets, or JB that night after she wet the bed. She was tired, tipsy, had to get up early the next morning for the trip, had more packing to do...and JB just added to her "TO DO" list....when she wet the bed, and Patsy became enraged.
Ames
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Patsy just wanted to get rid of any evidence that still may have been lurking in that house.
Veronica10
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I think the decisions made regarding JB were seriously flawed in almost every aspect of her short life. I think Patsy was a seriously disturbed individual, a successfully functioning member of society, but a serious nutcase in terms of her skewed priorities. I'd have to wonder about any mom that whored her daughter out in so many ways. To say Patsy had serious issues is the understatement of a lifetime.
Remember the sexy witch for Halloween? What was JB? 3 or 4 at the time? WHAT is a mom saying this for???
Rocket posted an excerpt a few weeks back under the "PR Interviews" where Patsy is asked by Detective Haney - "how did all that work, finding the ransom note, telling John" and Patsy says "Well I screamed for John and John screamed for me when he came up from the basement". (It is not verbatim but fairly close, she does say basically that and actually says he screamed for her when he came up from the basement".
And it is not a mixup of rooms and a mistake - I think it really happened that way only about five hours earlier than she was reporting to Detective Haney. I think John was in the basement and I think he did the staging of JonBenet and I think he did call for Patsy while she was in the kitchen or another part of the downstairs - I think he called for her when he was finished. Or she called him while she was "freaking out" and he called back to her.
That is probably why when one answers a question like this, if the person is guilty, they should take their time. But you can tell when you read the interview that she is rushing with her answer and is upset and she accidently tells the truth.
That is what I think.
Ames
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I remember reading about that...I believe that JB was 3, if I am not mistaken. I couldn't believe my eyes, when I read that. Totally disgusting.
Ames
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Rocket posted an excerpt a few weeks back under the "PR Interviews" where Patsy is asked by Detective Haney - "how did all that work, finding the ransom note, telling John" and Patsy says "Well I screamed for John and John screamed for me when he came up from the basement". (It is not verbatim but fairly close, she does say basically that and actually says he screamed for her when he came up from the basement".
And it is not a mixup of rooms and a mistake - I think it really happened that way only about five hours earlier than she was reporting to Detective Haney. I think John was in the basement and I think he did the staging of JonBenet and I think he did call for Patsy while she was in the kitchen or another part of the downstairs - I think he called for her when he was finished. Or she called him while she was "freaking out" and he called back to her.
That is probably why when one answers a question like this, if the person is guilty, they should take their time. But you can tell when you read the interview that she is rushing with her answer and is upset and she accidently tells the truth.
That is what I think.
Me too...I believe that Patsy was upstairs composing her version of the ransom note while John did the staging. As a mother, I just don't think that Patsy had the heart to help with that part....goodness knows...she had already done ENOUGH.
She may have collected things for him since fibers from her sweater are all over everything. But I think he took over.
I think they thought she was dead and the staging would save them. It worked too because the grand jury did not believe parents would do this.
Veronica10
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Me too...I have cried many times. The sadness is unspeakable. How a mom could let this happen? I have three daughters age 6 and younger and I just can't believe how Patsy betrayed her daughter.
Yes, I agree with your scenario, tipsy and exhausted.
Veronica10
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Rocket posted an excerpt a few weeks back under the "PR Interviews" where Patsy is asked by Detective Haney - "how did all that work, finding the ransom note, telling John" and Patsy says "Well I screamed for John and John screamed for me when he came up from the basement". (It is not verbatim but fairly close, she does say basically that and actually says he screamed for her when he came up from the basement".
And it is not a mixup of rooms and a mistake - I think it really happened that way only about five hours earlier than she was reporting to Detective Haney. I think John was in the basement and I think he did the staging of JonBenet and I think he did call for Patsy while she was in the kitchen or another part of the downstairs - I think he called for her when he was finished. Or she called him while she was "freaking out" and he called back to her.
That is probably why when one answers a question like this, if the person is guilty, they should take their time. But you can tell when you read the interview that she is rushing with her answer and is upset and she accidently tells the truth.
That is what I think.
Yes, she was remembering the chaos of that night.
And the police were very happy with the way Detective Haney interviewed, i.e. mentioning the abuse, etc. - which he was, BUT he dropped the ball on that one - never says anything, not one word, just lets it slide. How about "So when John called you from the basement, what did you do"?
She probably would have answered it too. She was in the moment.:banghead: