OK Foss lake Discovery

[meanmaryjean]

Look at the pics, they show every angle of the cars including the interior.

And how can you tell anything about the bodies/ skeletal remains?

I'm guessing you're hinting that these were not accidents? Steering wheels get bent in high impact collisions with stationary objects- not by driving into the water. The glass being intact also means nothing- I personally believe this was just two, horrible tragic accidents. A family member of mine died in similar fashion.

 

[Satch]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/1...olved-after-cars-pulled-from/?intcmp=trending

"The cars were submerged in about 12 feet of water and were only about 50 feet from the end of a boat ramp near a marina. But Peoples said it was no surprise that the murky waters held a secret.

“This lake isn’t crystal clear. It’s a typical western Oklahoma lake with a lot of silt in it. The visibility is only 6 to 12 inches on a good day,” Peoples said. “We’ll consider it a mystery until we prove otherwise."

The sheriff said it was entirely possible that people simply drove into the lake and drowned.

“We know that to happen, even if you know your way around. It can happen that quick,” he added."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/1...rs-pulled-from/?intcmp=trending#ixzz2fOOZuogJ

Based on what was found, I agree with the Sheriff. This seems to be an accidental drowning and nothing more. (The three kids.) I don't know enough about the 1969 case to comment on it.

Satch

 

[Satch]

I dare say this might be how other missing people may be found one day. How many "missing" are in a body of water somewhere? That some might be discovered in vehicles does help to provide more of a chance of identification when you figure vehicles have VIN numbers and maybe old license plates still with them.

Exactly!

Think of all the POTENTIAL drowning cases with missing people that could be solved with the possibility of sonar research, testing, and implementation of equipment into the lakes in question where or near where missing people vanished?

Satch

 

[danzn16]

Did the cars float to that location or do they think they went off the road in that location?


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[meanmaryjean]

The steering wheels were not bent and the glass was intact, the body lines were true to their original form....just saying!

Or do I mistake your meaning and by 'body lines' you are referring to the CARS' body lines (as in alignment/ frame)??

 

[greenpalm]

The 1950's Chevy would not have even had seatbelts. Certainly it would have had crank windows. i know water pressure can keep the car doors from opening, but no seatbelt, and a crank window, it seems like one of three adults would have been able to get out. Were any of the windows rolled down? how do we know the glass was intact? how did the one skull that was not in one of the cars get out of the car? Perhaps this is evidence of one person attempting to escape, but drowning anyway? 12 feet of water 50 feet from a boat ramp indicates a mighty steep drop. I'm not making any assumptions, or guesses, I'm just exploring possibilities.

I don't know about any of the so called IQ lowering comments being made elsewhere, because I only read here on WS, but I do not jump to any conclusion and I do not show disdain for considering possibilities until I have enough information to rule them out or render them unlikely due to probability.

Was there a body in each of the driver's seats? Maybe Ted Kennedy did it. ;-)

 

[SmoothOperator]

awww shucks! I think I blew the margins..ugh! I'm on tablet now and I hate how difficult it makes things..

off to go fix it..my apologies.

 

[Sherwood Park]

Its just so very...eerie..coincidental...IDK if those are even the correct descriptors, but its downright *something* in looking at what the circumstances are surrounding those 2 cars and 6 sets of remains that they've pulled from Foss Lake..

The first of the two cases began on April 8, 1969 when the following three adults went missing from Canute, Oklahoma:
*Nora Duncan
*John Alvie Porter
*Clayburn Hammock
*an early 1950's model Chevrolet vehicle

Then soon thereafter you have the second of the two cases that began on November 20, 1970 when the following three teens went missing:
*Jimmy Williams
*Leah Johnson
*Thomas Rios
*a blue 1970 Camaro(which Jimmy had just purchased, brand new a mere 6 days prior)

In looking at the decades of time that have elapsed from when these two incidents occurred it becomes all the more...eerie?...coincidental?... In how relatively close in time that these two separate, unrelated incidents occurred..most remarkable of all is that they literally were side by side submerged, under water, in Foss lake for 40 years!!..

Maybe "Remarkable" is the word I'm looking for in attempting to describe in words this amazing, fascinating culmination of events that have occurred within these last few days.. When for 40 years..4 long decades of time these family/friends have had no idea, no answers, no clues, nothing whatsoever to go on in their never ending search for the truth of what happened and where their loved ones had gone all those many, many years ago..

It is simply fascinating, from the POV of being on the outside looking in.. Fascinating!

If the sheriff said it was found 50 feet (?) from the boat ramp, I wouldn't find it to be eerie or a coincidence. It sounds like more of a likely hood of an accident rather than some serial killer, drug deal or murder scenario.

I'm happy for the families, this must be a huge relief for them despite the sadness.

 

[Sherwood Park]

BBM: Exactly! All the serial killer talk is lowering my IQ too! (I've shared in a previous post about my family's experience with car-into-water deaths.)

People would rather speculate about a serial killer instead of the more likely scenario of an accident. Serial killer is still possible, just way less likely than an accident.

Remember those two ladies (one was pregnant) who drowned a few months ago after accidentally taking a wrong turn then driving into water? Had they not been found as quickly I'm sure people would have speculated that they were murdered or raped and murdered. No one would have suggested the theory of an accidental drowning and therefore no one would have searched for their bodies in an ocean/lake/river, etc.

 

[Dr. Know?]

After 40 plus years you could imagine drifting, erosion, weather, activity and so on as to how the cars ended up where they did and how they did. It's been too long to try to figure that out unless Foss Lake is protected from the environment like the Galapagos Islands . Damage might be able to be figured out if they were in a wreck or something. I just saw straight bodies of cars corroded with mangled and separated back ends etc... The cars looked very fragile. This will be interesting to find out what the experts come up with to me.

The autopsy results showing no crime might help, the reconstruction of the vehicle parts & whatever else they have found will take a while.

I don't feel Jimmy and the other two were out there to cause trouble but to hunt possibly. Trying to figure out the other 3 in the Chevy.

 

[December]

I think it is possible that there are two different causes for the cars being there. Even if they're accidents, they may be two different types of accidents (I don't know if that can be told at this late date, however). For example, the older car was known to have mechanical problems. They were pushing it trying to get it started earlier the day they disappeared.

Of course, given the poor design of the area where they likely left the road, just a regular accident is possible in both cases. The poor design that causes accidents makes it kind of ideal for things to happen with no one being the wiser... accidental things and not accidental things (if the way I think it looked is correct, sorry if I'm wrong about that part).

For the occupants of the newer car, there were rumors of foul play being part of their disappearance. I don't know what those were based upon... pure speculation or actual facts that were investigated and later dropped because the car and its occupants were not found until now. If there was foul play, hopefully even at this late date, there will be some sign of it left.

Both groups (older car and newer car) had reasons to be outside their cars. One due to mechanical issues with the car and the other due to hunting. That would be what could lead to foul play if indeed something nefarious was happening in around the lake. Although, the older people probably would be sticking to the road whereas the younger people might be out walking through the woods. But, I'm not saying there was any foul play..

Oh, and there was a report of finding a burned out car with California plates in the lake area when they were searching for the teenagers back in 1970. Maybe at one time they thought the people who burned the other car killed the teens and took their car. Now that the teens have been found along with their car, maybe that line of reasoning is moot.

I do wonder if the people testing the sonar expected to find cars in the area these two were found. Someone said they saw two dark, car shaped places in the lake on satellite photos. Obviously, the cars would have been down there for a long time before anyone much could have seen a satellite photo. But, it makes sense to test the sonar where there's something to find. It sounds like they expected the cars, but expected that they went into the lake empty.

 

[December]

I hope that investigators are able to piece together what happened to each car and each individual occupant. I know the details won't be there, but even now, hopefully they could tell if someone was shot or something like that.

Also, if the bottom of the lake is really soft, the cars might not have gone too far after their settled in.. so maybe they can estimate the speed they were traveling when they went into the lake. If the speed pretty much matches the speed of the closest road.. well...

 

[killarney rose]

This article is in depth about first generation Camaro seat belts and includes pics. I only skimmed it, but for those interested in them it should be informative.

http://www.camaros.org/seatbelt.shtml

MOO is that no one in the Camaro was wearing a seatbelt. No one that I knew back then, including adults wore them. Looking back I can't think of a single person that I knew who wore theirs.

 

[socialghost]

To me one of the weirdest things is they were side-by-side, 50 feet from the marina and facing in opposite directions. If they both accidentally drove off into the lake, it seems odd to me that they would end up right by each other but facing opposite ways.

Reference: http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/18/us/oklahoma-lake-car-bodies/index.html

 

[4SAM]

Its just so very...eerie..coincidental...IDK if those are even the correct descriptors, but its downright *something* in looking at what the circumstances are surrounding those 2 cars and 6 sets of remains that they've pulled from Foss Lake..

The first of the two cases began on April 8, 1969 when the following three adults went missing from Canute, Oklahoma:
*Nora Duncan
*John Alvie Porter
*Clayburn Hammock
*an early 1950's model Chevrolet vehicle

Then soon thereafter you have the second of the two cases that began on November 20, 1970 when the following three teens went missing:
*Jimmy Williams
*Leah Johnson
*Thomas Rios
*a blue 1970 Camaro(which Jimmy had just purchased, brand new a mere 6 days prior)

In looking at the decades of time that have elapsed from when these two incidents occurred it becomes all the more...eerie?...coincidental?... In how relatively close in time that these two separate, unrelated incidents occurred..most remarkable of all is that they literally were side by side submerged, under water, in Foss lake for 40 years!!..

Maybe "Remarkable" is the word I'm looking for in attempting to describe in words this amazing, fascinating culmination of events that have occurred within these last few days.. When for 40 years..4 long decades of time these family/friends have had no idea, no answers, no clues, nothing whatsoever to go on in their never ending search for the truth of what happened and where their loved ones had gone all those many, many years ago..

It is simply fascinating, from the POV of being on the outside looking in.. Fascinating!

On post #63 it stated that Mr. Porter was with a sibling, Alrie Porter. So who is Clayburn Hammock? And if it was Clayburn in the car, then where is Alrie?

 

[little726]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...found-in-cars-at-bottom-of-oklahoma-lake?lite

Sheriff Bruce Peoples said Duncan was believed to have been with two friends, Cleburn Hammock and John Alva Porter, 69, of Rogers Mills County. Little information was immediately available about Hammock relatives, but Porter's grandchildren said they believed the third body was that of their grandfather.

 

[i.b.nora]

Aren't there any newspaper articles available from the time?

 

[KariKae]

I've told this story on other threads, but it seems like I need to tell it here.

My cousin Lenny was driving home late at night from an insurance conference. He got off the interstate to get gasoline, and got turned around coming out of the station trying to get back to the interstate. Drove down what he thought was a two-lane country road. It was a boat ramp. The ONLY reason he is not a missing person today is that a woman was letting her dogs out and heard the splash of the car hitting the water. His vehicle traveled many yards out into the water before it sank, drowning him.

My daughter's FIL fished in the St. Joseph River every Thursday for decades. About ten years ago, they pulled a car from the river just a few feet from his launch spot. It contained the body of a long-missing woman. It had been in the water for over ten years.

YES- we need the services of America's fishermen to examine all of the little lakes and ponds of this country for missing persons in their vehicles. I would wager a large portion of the 'missing and the car is missing too' cases have a watery solution!

Thank you for sharing your story. Was your cousin knocked out when he hit the water? Or do they know?

The part I am having a hard time with is why nobody rolled down a window and escaped.

***Shudder*** Driving into water is one of my biggest fears.

 

[December]

According to CNN, the windows on the Camaro were down. And it went into the water backwards.

If the windows were down, it is weird no one escaped.

ETA

Even at this late date, it may be possible to come up with a decent estimate of how fast each car was traveling when it hit the water. If so, that will reveal much... such as
-Did one of both drivers mistake the dock for more road and literally drive into the water at a normal speed? (This would tell, perhaps, if people were stunned by the impact with the water)
-Did something cause one or both cars to slide into the water at a slower speed? (This would account for mechanical problems, and road conditions possibly causing an accident)

 

[alreetlike]

What freaks me out about bodies being discovered at some later date in water is the thought of how many times the family/friends of the missing person could've walked or driven past the body of water. It totally messes with my mind.