OK Foss lake Discovery

[December]

What freaks me out about bodies being discovered at some later date in water is the thought of how many times the family/friends of the missing person could've walked or driven past the body of water. It totally messes with my mind.

I've read that at least some of the relatives frequently go to that lake. The granddaughter of the man driving the older car said she was there with her kids only a few days before the discovery.

 

[Harmony 2]

I created some new threads and moved pertinent posts accordingly... please branch out into the new sub-forum and feel free to create new threads... :seeya:

 

[meanmaryjean]

Thank you for sharing your story. Was your cousin knocked out when he hit the water? Or do they know?

The part I am having a hard time with is why nobody rolled down a window and escaped.

***Shudder*** Driving into water is one of my biggest fears.

My cousin made it out of the vehicle but drowned trying to get to shore.

And I suspect in this case, they panicked, it was dark, they were fully clothed - possibly even outerwear- and IIRC it was cold weather, therefore the water would be cold.
Rolling down the windows would flood the car more quickly and cause it to sink faster. All of these combined were a deadly combination.

 

[December]

I read in one article that there had been a lot of rain in early 1969, so the older car would've gone into a deeper water than what the lake is currently. Right now, the lake is 12 or 13 feet below its norm. i don't know if the lake was still higher than normal in late 1970.

 

[December]

My cousin made it out of the vehicle but drowned trying to get to shore.

And I suspect in this case, they panicked, it was dark, they were fully clothed - possibly even outerwear- and IIRC it was cold weather, therefore the water would be cold.
Rolling down the windows would flood the car more quickly and cause it to sink faster. All of these combined were a deadly combination.

The weird thing is all four windows were down, but there were only three people in the car. I think it is possible the windows were already down. But, IDK. It really depends on how the people were found. If they were found mid-struggle to get out of the car (but just failed) that is one thing. But, if they were found all sitting more or less in their seats, then I think that means the windows were down already for some reason. I don't know what conclusion to draw from that though.

At this point I've got two facts and only two: the car went in the water. There are dead people in the car. I don't really know what happened yet. But, it is true that sometimes cars sink really fast.

 

[k4kathy]

Thank you for sharing your story. Was your cousin knocked out when he hit the water? Or do they know?

The part I am having a hard time with is why nobody rolled down a window and escaped.

***Shudder*** Driving into water is one of my biggest fears.

I once read that the pressure from water will not allow someone to roll down a window in a car that's under water.

 

[k4kathy]

I don't recall seeing the windows rolled down on either vehicles. Both vehicles windows were covered with mud, weren't they?

 

[Dr. Know?]

According to CNN, the windows on the Camaro were down. And it went into the water backwards.

If the windows were down, it is weird no one escaped.

ETA

Even at this late date, it may be possible to come up with a decent estimate of how fast each car was traveling when it hit the water. If so, that will reveal much... such as
-Did one of both drivers mistake the dock for more road and literally drive into the water at a normal speed? (This would tell, perhaps, if people were stunned by the impact with the water)
-Did something cause one or both cars to slide into the water at a slower speed? (This would account for mechanical problems, and road conditions possibly causing an accident)

This video shows that the windows were up it looks like on both cars. It's the first minute or so of the video.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/cars-skeletal-remains-found-feet-bottom-oklahoma-lake/story?id=20293329

 

[Dr. Know?]

I once read that the pressure from water will not allow someone to roll down a window in a car that's under water.

I've been reading around about it and found a Mythbuster's answer. There's a lot of good information in case you find yourself in a vehicle underwater. There is a lot over the internet to read about what to do if so. Kicking out of windows seemed to be stressed on many sites before the car fills up with water & how or what to use to bust the window and where to hit it to crack. Most sites talked about power windows and the amount of time you have to power them down. Windshield is not one to try first as it's thicker.

It's an awful way to go. Drowning or by fire.

RIP

You can open a window in a submerged car by using a manual window crank.

busted

Using a test weight of 350 lbs (equivalent to pressure differential from just two feet of immersion), the pressure of the window glass against the frame is so great that no amount of effort can move the gear. You are more likely to break the window handle.

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode72

 

[dotr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YaMEW30bv4

 

[wintermute]

This video shows that the windows were up it looks like on both cars. It's the first minute or so of the video.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/cars-skeletal-remains-found-feet-bottom-oklahoma-lake/story?id=20293329

I remember noticing in the video that all of the windows were still up, and then I read in the CNN article that all of the Camaro's windows were rolled down. Gos to show that news outlets can get their facts wrong. Makes me wonder if what CNN said about the Camaro entering the water backwards is true or not.

 

[PFF]

ON Naumus
Leah Johnson https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/18338/154/
Thomas Rios https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/18339/155/
Nora Duncan https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/17424/156/

 

[SmoothOperator]

If the sheriff said it was found 50 feet (?) from the boat ramp, I wouldn't find it to be eerie or a coincidence. It sounds like more of a likely hood of an accident rather than some serial killer, drug deal or murder scenario.

I'm happy for the families, this must be a huge relief for them despite the sadness.

Just to be clear I do not believe there is some serial killer and have not implied that I believe there to even be any foul play involved in these 2 cases.. What I did say is that I am fascinated at the fact that they did occur relatively close in time(when looking at it in the perspective of a 40year time span) and find it to be altogether remarkable that they've been a mere 50ft out, and 12ft down, side by side in Foss Lake for 40 years.. Again fascinating, IMO.

Not only fascinating is it to me in my POV from the outside looking in, but also in terms of what this means for the many who love and care about these six people who have been left for 4 long decades with no answers, clues, or even a hint as to what had happened to their loved ones.. Those answers took 40 years to finally come, but IMO when they did finally become revealed they leave little question as to it being a tragic accident that took their loved ones lives.. Well deserved closure after having lived the last 40 years with the just-not-knowing that they were all left with in regards to the disappearance of each of their loved ones.

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

 

[December]

Oh, I see CNN was wrong about the windows. I think this means they were wrong about the car going in backwards, too. It may have been found facing as though it did, but it could've turned at any time.

 

[ellie b]

Gos to show that news outlets can get their facts wrong

I have to say that generally I have very little faith in media reporting.

 

[December]

Just to be clear I do not believe there is some serial killer and have not implied that I believe there to even be any foul play involved in these 2 cases.. What I did say is that I am fascinated at the fact that they did occur relatively close in time(when looking at it in the perspective of a 40year time span) and find it to be altogether remarkable that they've been a mere 50ft out, and 12ft down, side by side in Foss Lake for 40 years.. Again fascinating, IMO.

Not only fascinating is it to me in my POV from the outside looking in, but also in terms of what this means for the many who love and care about these six people who have been left for 4 long decades with no answers, clues, or even a hint as to what had happened to their loved ones.. Those answers took 40 years to finally come, but IMO when they did finally become revealed they leave little question as to it being a tragic accident that took their loved ones lives.. Well deserved closure after having lived the last 40 years with the just-not-knowing that they were all left with in regards to the disappearance of each of their loved ones.

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

There must've been something going on during that time period. It could be something to do with the road or the lake, IDK. If there was a local paper that might show a record of such changes. If not, maybe an old timer with a good memory. This is if accident.

If not accident, maybe someone moved whatever was in the woods figuring they couldn't keep shoving carloads of people into the lake. I think that perhaps unlikely, but I like to think of all angles.

 

[stillwatersc]

I have to say that generally I have very little faith in media reporting.

My son witnessed a tragic accident where a man was killed. Almost everything in the newspaper account was inaccurate.

 

[Dr. Know?]

There must've been something going on during that time period. It could be something to do with the road or the lake, IDK. If there was a local paper that might show a record of such changes. If not, maybe an old timer with a good memory. This is if accident.

If not accident, maybe someone moved whatever was in the woods figuring they couldn't keep shoving carloads of people into the lake. I think that perhaps unlikely, but I like to think of all angles.

I posted this two days ago. It's a local news outlet that is small but did dig to get this article copied. It's their fb page about the three older adults in the 52 Chevy.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9849989&postcount=30"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 6 Bodies Found in Western Oklahoma Lake - General Discussion[/ame]

If not look up The Cordell Beacon News online as they dug it up from 1969 I think. I hope they are still digging.

FB link

https://www.facebook.com/cordellnews#!/cordellnews

 

[inthedark14]

Just to be clear I do not believe there is some serial killer and have not implied that I believe there to even be any foul play involved in these 2 cases.. What I did say is that I am fascinated at the fact that they did occur relatively close in time(when looking at it in the perspective of a 40year time span) and find it to be altogether remarkable that they've been a mere 50ft out, and 12ft down, side by side in Foss Lake for 40 years.. Again fascinating, IMO.

Not only fascinating is it to me in my POV from the outside looking in, but also in terms of what this means for the many who love and care about these six people who have been left for 4 long decades with no answers, clues, or even a hint as to what had happened to their loved ones.. Those answers took 40 years to finally come, but IMO when they did finally become revealed they leave little question as to it being a tragic accident that took their loved ones lives.. Well deserved closure after having lived the last 40 years with the just-not-knowing that they were all left with in regards to the disappearance of each of their loved ones.

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

ITA...I can't find a way around some speculation, but I think it's amazing that all these families will have their lost (FOR FORTY YEARS) loved ones back. I don't doubt that there are surviving close family members that are now finding peace knowing what happened to their kin.

I do also wonder, as is reported that the 2 cars/2 cases, etc were a relatively (for such a large man made body of water) close to one another not ever found in the last forty years. Has the launch been maintained, rehabbed or anything in that time? What goes into maintaining a launch? Has the lake ever in these long years experienced a drought that would bring it's waters to a low level where it's possible boats could not launch from that location?

I also wonder about fish finders, my DH has a very expensive one that makes me more than a little cranky (when I paid the bill for it) the thing tells you exactly what the depth is and shows if anything is below you (which would mess with the depth level from what I understand). I don't pretend for a second to be able to tell you how it works or why, but I know that when he "trolls" for fish and I'm driving the boat, I am expected to watch for differences in lake depth. It would be very odd to be heading out of a launch and within that close of a distance to the launch to see such an anomaly. Especially since there are times you spend a lot of time "a ways out" from the launch waiting for others to get their boat in or out.

IMO it's way odd that these two cars were rather close to the launch and all these years have gone by and no one came across them, except LE using very sophisticated new sonar equipment.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[Dr. Know?]

It will be interesting since I did read they were planning on exercises/training/searches near the other 5 or 6 ramps on the lake with this sonar.

More power to them. Unbelievable the first try they uncovered 6 missing people. Job done well.

After posting that windows were up from the video, I watched several others. You could almost see how easy pieces were dismantled to look inside. Might be where CNN made their mistake with their bold statements.