France - 5 shot, 4 dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications, 2012 #2

[ZaZara]

Tuerie de Chevaline: les enquêteurs sur les traces de l'arme du quadruple meurtre


Ten years after the quadruple homicide, the "cold case" unit in Nanterre is aiming to find the perpetrator by focusing on the semi-automatic pistol that was used.

New impetus in the investigation into the Chevaline massacre. The Nanterre unit dedicated to serial and unsolved crimes (nicknamed the "cold case" unit) has been working since September on one of the most emblematic unsolved French cases of recent years.

And to try to advance the investigations, the investigating judge Sabine Khéris is calling on the investigators to focus on the weapon of the crimes, an old semi-automatic pistol, according to information from Le Parisien.

In a document obtained by our colleagues, Sabine Khéris instructs all police services in France to "report to the investigativer section of Chambéry any discovery or destruction of a P06 handgun (Luger type) of 7.65mm parabellum calibre as well as any discovery of ammunition of this calibre".

If the investigating judge is so interested in the weapon used by the perpetrator, it is because it is the only known element in the file that would make it possible to get hold of a suspect. It was precisely with an old Luger semi-automatic pistol that three members of the British family of Iraqi origin al-Hilli and a cyclist, Sylvain Mollier, were shot dead on 5 September 2012 in the village of Chevaline in Savoie.

In addition, as the perpetrator used the butt of a pistol on one of the two little girls who survived the attack, a fragment of the weapon was found at the scene of the crime, making it possible to target a certain range of the weapon in question.

According to Le Parisien, the courts had already been able to reduce the number of weapons to be examined to 3,000 thanks to this clue. However, so far, the searches have yielded nothing, hence the judge's call to remain vigilant and to report any discovery, even when they have been used for burglaries or suicides.


BBM

Another detail of the fragment of the weapon that was found:

Le pôle « cold case » relance la piste de l’arme dans l’affaire Chevaline


According to experts, the shooting on 5 September 2012 lasted a maximum of 90 seconds. Twenty-one shells from the same weapon were found at the scene. The perpetrator shot the victims seventeen times. He also hit the shoulder of the family's eldest daughter, who was 7 years old at the time, and struck her on the head with the butt of the pistol. It was at this point that a piece of the butt plate came off the gun, which allowed to tighten the range of the P06 Luger to be recovered.


BBM

 

[General wooster]

Tuerie de Chevaline: les enquêteurs sur les traces de l'arme du quadruple meurtre


Ten years after the quadruple homicide, the "cold case" unit in Nanterre is aiming to find the perpetrator by focusing on the semi-automatic pistol that was used.

New impetus in the investigation into the Chevaline massacre. The Nanterre unit dedicated to serial and unsolved crimes (nicknamed the "cold case" unit) has been working since September on one of the most emblematic unsolved French cases of recent years.

And to try to advance the investigations, the investigating judge Sabine Khéris is calling on the investigators to focus on the weapon of the crimes, an old semi-automatic pistol, according to information from Le Parisien.

In a document obtained by our colleagues, Sabine Khéris instructs all police services in France to "report to the investigativer section of Chambéry any discovery or destruction of a P06 handgun (Luger type) of 7.65mm parabellum calibre as well as any discovery of ammunition of this calibre".

If the investigating judge is so interested in the weapon used by the perpetrator, it is because it is the only known element in the file that would make it possible to get hold of a suspect. It was precisely with an old Luger semi-automatic pistol that three members of the British family of Iraqi origin al-Hilli and a cyclist, Sylvain Mollier, were shot dead on 5 September 2012 in the village of Chevaline in Savoie.

In addition, as the perpetrator used the butt of a pistol on one of the two little girls who survived the attack, a fragment of the weapon was found at the scene of the crime, making it possible to target a certain range of the weapon in question.

According to Le Parisien, the courts had already been able to reduce the number of weapons to be examined to 3,000 thanks to this clue. However, so far, the searches have yielded nothing, hence the judge's call to remain vigilant and to report any discovery, even when they have been used for burglaries or suicides.


BBM

It seems that Frederic Vaglio and his group may hold the answers IMO

 

[ZaZara]

It seems that Frederic Vaglio and his group may hold the answers IMO

From a long list of theories that did not make it:

RECIT. Tuerie de Chevaline : famille massacrée, motard suspect, trafic d'armes... une enquête mystérieuse désormais relancée

Ammunition found in Freemasons' lodge

In February 2021, ammunition identical to that used at the crime scene was found in a Freemasons' lodge. However, the trail went nowhere.


BBM

 

[shadwell]

Another edition of RTL’s ‘L’Heure du Crime’ on Chevaline today - should come up in the replay section at some point later today or tomorrow:

L'heure du Crime : replays, vidéos et podcasts avec Jean-Alphonse Richard sur www.rtl.fr

Jean-Alphonse Richard nous plonge dans les arcanes de la police et de la justice. Entouré de spécialistes, archives sonores, protagonistes et grands témoins à l’appui, il rouvre les enquêtes des plus grandes affaires judiciaires.

www.rtl.fr

 

[shadwell]

Now available to replay:

L'INTÉGRALE - La tuerie de Chevaline : l'énigme de l'homme au Luger P06

www.rtl.fr

 

[ZaZara]

Now available to replay:

L'INTÉGRALE - La tuerie de Chevaline : l'énigme de l'homme au Luger P06

www.rtl.fr

Thank you!

That was very interesting! Lots of details like why indeed they trhink the cyclist was shot first. And the perp being someone from the region who knows to stay silent.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Now available to replay:

L'INTÉGRALE - La tuerie de Chevaline : l'énigme de l'homme au Luger P06

www.rtl.fr

Is it in French only?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Is it in French only?

I had a look at the site in google chrome and though it translated the page into English, the links there are to the audio episodes and they're in French.

 

[ZaZara]

Is it in French only?

Very French. Haven't found a transcript to translate yet, unfortunately.

One of the experts interviewed is Dominique Rizet. He repeats more or less what he said earlier here
France - 5 shot, 4 dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications, 2012 #2

 

[shadwell]

It’s largely a fairly standard recap of the known facts, with a couple of variations (eg the idea that Mollier was dragged by the open door of the car rather than run over and dragged under the front bumper) - I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten) that the campsite altercation occurred at the Europa rather than Solitaire du Lac and that the caravan was apparently smashed up inside as a result.

There’s also a couple of points with which I disagree in Rizet’s latest version - he suggests that Pierre C (the Lyon motorcyclist) owned a GPA helmet, despite the man himself denying ever having owned one and no evidence that he did being found during the searches of his home and business - IMO this is a red herring invented by the gendarmerie in an attempt to explain how Pierre C was seen by the two ONF rangers wearing an open face helmet, but the Brett Martin motorcyclist’s helmet was full face. The fact that Pierre C’s helmet was black, but the Brett Martin motorcyclist’s helmet was white/silver seems to have slipped by them.

Also, the idea that Mollier was shot first (suggesting he was the intended target) persists, with an additional suggestion that Zainab was shot last, the killer then running out of ammunition. IMO Mollier, Zainab and Saad were all hit in the initial volley of four shots - Mollier and Zainab hit in the back as they ran close together towards the rear of the car, Saad hit in the lower back as he got into the driving seat.

Also, Rizet again mentions the dark coloured BMW - IMO this was a misidentification of the al Hilli’s BMW in the shade of the tree cover by the other ONF ranger as they passed each other at speed. Afaik, the presence of this ‘ghost’ car has also been excluded by investigators.

 

[General wooster]

From a long list of theories that did not make it:

RECIT. Tuerie de Chevaline : famille massacrée, motard suspect, trafic d'armes... une enquête mystérieuse désormais relancée

Ammunition found in Freemasons' lodge

In February 2021, ammunition identical to that used at the crime scene was found in a Freemasons' lodge. However, the trail went nowhere.


BBM

Sorry, this trail is real.IMO.

 

[Tintenbar]

Cold case : la tristement célèbre tuerie de Chevaline, en 2012
Listening to the RTL Podcast, we learn that the local track is now favored by investigators.

 

[Tintenbar]

Another podcast on Slate Audio : Home(icides) - La tuerie de Chevaline, le crime parfait (rediffusion intégrale)

 

[General wooster]

Another podcast on Slate Audio : Home(icides) - La tuerie de Chevaline, le crime parfait (rediffusion intégrale)

Thanks for this information. The connection to Frederic Vaglio looms. He has local connections and a track record of kill for hire

 

[Kemug]

What I find really strange is that Mrs Al Hilli's first husband died on exactly the same date in the US - I know coincidences do happen, but this is seriously weird.

 

[crazychris]

What I find really strange is that Mrs Al Hilli's first husband died on exactly the same date in the US - I know coincidences do happen, but this is seriously weird.

Car crash and nothing more they say but I agree, one huge co-incidence isn't though?

 

[shadwell]

Cold case : la tristement célèbre tuerie de Chevaline, en 2012
Listening to the RTL Podcast, we learn that the local track is now favored by investigators.

Very local IMO. To my mind, the two things which have most significantly hampered this inquiry are adherence to the psychological profile and timeline confusion.

 

[General wooster]

Thanks for this information. The connection to Frederic Vaglio looms. He has local connections and a track record of kill for hire

Absolutely!

 

[ZaZara]

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/677...ord-op-belgische-toerist-zoveel-gelijkenissen


However, a new book and a brand-new documentary series on French television now shed new light on the case. Documentary filmmaker Imen Ghouali and crime journalist Brendan Kemmett have been delving into the case for the past two years, looking for new perspectives. They made their own reconstruction and came to the conclusion that, in their view, the police did not investigate some parts thoroughly enough.

'So many similarities'

The documentary series, for instance, addresses a theory published by the British newspaper The Sun several years ago: that the Chevaline case would have the same perpetrator as the case surrounding murdered Belgian tourist Xavier Baligant. The latter was returning from holiday with his two sons a year before this Chevaline murder case, when he was mercilessly shot dead during a pee break in a car park in northern France. In this case, too, the children, who were sleeping in the back seat, survived the attack.

"There are so many similarities between this Belgian's murder and the Chevaline murder," observes Imen Ghouali. "A car with foreign number plates, children in the back, holidays. Both murders were committed near a forest, all the victims were shot through the head, and a special firearm that was also used by the Swiss army was used in both murders." Meanwhile, according to the documentary maker, the police are also investigating the case: an unknown serial killer may have killed Xavier Baligant as well as the British-Iraqi family and Sylvain Mollier.

BBM


Hmmm... not sure this is new news. A possible link between the two murders was mentioned straight from the beginning, in 2012.

The first episode of the Canal+ documentary is available on youtube

 

[Cedars]

"There are so many similarities between this Belgian's murder and the Chevaline murder," observes Imen Ghouali. "A car with foreign number plates, children in the back, holidays. Both murders were committed near a forest, all the victims were shot through the head, and a special firearm that was also used by the Swiss army was used in both murders."

Thanks for the update to this case.

So does this report prove that the Belgian was shot because his vehicle had a foreign license plate, because he had children in the back (asleep, so probably not visible), and because he was on holiday?

Similarly, do they prove the killer at Chevaline shot the al-Hilli family because they were on holiday, because there was one child in the car (he seems not to have known about the one in the back), and because of the foreign license plate?

Are trees so rare in France that a serial killer would have to go all the way to a parking lot in the mountains above Chevaline to find some, similar to the ones at the earlier highway rest stop murder?

The Belgian was shot 5 times, it's not clear where all his wounds were located, whereas two shots to the head was the prefered technique of the Alps murder.

My understanding is that the gun used to kill the Belgian was a rare type of rifle, generally only owned by collectors Qui a tué le nivellois Xavier Baligant ? Dix ans après sa mort, toujours aucune réponse

Whereas the Luger P06 used in the Annency shooting was a very popular and standard pistol owned across Europe, in the same way and for the same reason Swiss watches were popular. There is a high likelihood of inheriting one, or easily buying one.

Then there are the many thing that are very different aspects of the two crimes: for example that one deliberately targetted a solo person in the wee hours of the morning, while the other was a massacre of a large number of people in the middle of the day...just unimportant trivial details to these supposedly expert crime analysts.

JMO