France - 5 shot, 4 dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications, 2012 #2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...has-killed-before-say-French-authorities.html

This Telegraph article published 17.11.2012 has quite a good precis of some of the main theories to date.

My thoughts are that the use of a first world war Luger as a weapon does rule out the professional hit theory.

I feel that if the information is correct then we have some idea of the order of events. However there are a couple of odd points still. Why was the bicycle's equipment thrown into the bushes? Why did the father lock the car doors and reverse the car therefore in effect leaving the daughter behind?

In my opinion the father is unlikely to have got into the car, locked down the doors and left his daughter behind unless he thought the daughter was already dead and was therefore concentrating on getting the rest of his family out of there or unless the guman had hold of her and the father saw no chance of getting her away from him. I believe the daughter may have been attacked and shot in the shoulder before he got into the car and tried to reverse. Was she shot in the shoulder in the first rounds of firing?

This would therefore give roughly the following order of events:

1. Daughter and father in layby outside car.
2. Mother and mother in law with small child in rear of car.
3. Cyclist coming up to layby. (Local French man on paternity leave taking familiar and regular route.)
4. Gunfire from woodland (possibly child shot in shoulder very shortly afterwards. This is unclear. )
5. Cyclist shot and on floor. (Later said to have been shot seven times. Maybe he was hit many times in the first rounds or maybe after the rest of the family was killed the gunman returned to him and used up the rest of his ammo. In either case seems a case of 'overkill' to me ie. implying a highly emotive state on the part of the killer. As does the attack on the child. The family in contrast seem to have been shot in a more controlled and systematic manner, in the style of an execution or hit)
6. Father definitely still alive at this point as the car reverses over cyclist and then jams on bank.
7. Rest of family killed except for second child hidden under mother's skirts in back of car.
8. Second cyclist arrives on scene shortly afterwards (British ex RAF, ex pat with family and property in France and England)
9. Second cyclist says he saw the daughter staggering and falling to the ground in front of her father's car. No sign of attacker. No sound of gunfire heard by him apparently. Had she got up from the ground or was this the first time she fell down? (Possibly hit on head because of lack of ammo. So possibly attacked both first and last. It is unclear.)
9, Second cyclist puts first child in recovery position and cycles back down hill to get phone signal/raise alarm
10. Second cyclist returns with french family he met on road (in car)
11. French man confims the daughter looked as if she were dead.
12. The alarm is raised


Questions in my head:
When was the bike equipment thrown into the bushes in this scenario? Why?
What type of person would use a collector's gun from the first world war as a weapon? It would need lots of reloading....
If the gunman came through the woods did he have a car/motorbike somewhere, maybe in the layby, or was he on foot or on a bicycle (local?)
Why the difference between the overkill on the cyclist/the overt close up violence on the child (emotive, less controlled) and the systematic shooting of the family in the car? Is it merely indicating the order of events ie. child beaten because out of ammo and cyclist shot many times in first flurry of gunfire. I wonder because I've read overkill scenarios are indicative of a relationship between killer and victim or can reveal killer's state of mind/personality profile, usually implying extreme anger rather than cool deliberation.
 
The "nut job who hates tourists" theory has the benefit of being possible but the liability of being too simple for the circumstances.
 
So who is Xavier Baligant? Is there another connection with all Hilli other than tourist?

Check out Marilyn Tomlinson website. On Sept 21 she raised the possibility of a connection between the two cases. Both took place near the Swiss/Germany border. And both were camping with their family. She also posted a photo of Xavier and he does look middle Eastern.

I would post a link but I am not at home and don't know how to copy and paste on my PlayBook!
 
Here is the link to Marilyn Tomlin's blog:

http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-the-forgotten-victim-sylvain-mollier/

If you "search" the comments on the blog you will see a lot of discussion about similarities and differences about the cases.

Also, I came across this article from yesterday in The Times, in which French prosecutors deny a link between the two cases.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3608294.ece

Links between the murder of a British family during a caravan holiday in the Alps and the shooting of a Belgian tourist last year have been ruled out, investigators insisted yesterday.

Unfortunately I don't have a subscription to the site so I can only read the first part of it.
 
This is like something right out of a John Le Carre' novel. It seemed like one of those things at happens in the US all too often yet can still happen anywhere; even France: A madman with a gun attacks a British family and a Frenchman on a bicycle who were traveling through a forest region. But is it as “simple as it seems?

The British Family was Iraqi immigrants who have a large Bank Account in nearby Geneva with money that has been traced to the Saddam Regime. The Father is a scientist specializing in spy satellites. He is known to be an obsessive hater of Israel and has recently been on an "unexplained" trip to Iran. He is also in a heated financial dispute with his brother; possibly over said Swiss bank account.

The Frenchman on the bicycle turns out to also have an "interesting" story. He is a metallurgist who works for a company that makes parts for nuclear reactors. His specialty is a highly technical type a welding. A technology Iran is known to be in need of. Also, he has recently obtained a three year "leave" from his company; ostensibly to care for his new born son. Rumor around town is that his girl friend, a pharmacist, is quite well off and he is going to let her support him for a while. He seemed to be living the good life of late. It raises the possibility that he had another source of income
.
Arguing against the "conspiracy theory" is the fact that the gun used is a gun commonly owned in the region. It was a type issued to Swiss Military Reservist in the 1940's and is commonly sold (illegally) across the border in France.

Al-Hilli may have had suspicious ties, but every indication was that he was really on vacation with his family. He took his Caravan and had been camping in different campsites in the Alps. The only thing about the trip that raises an eyebrow is the fact that they made the trip after the school year had begun and the child was missing school.

The one possibility that seems to be ruled out is the theory that the attack was directed at the al-Hilli family and the bicyclist just happened on the scene and had to be taken out as a possible witness. According to the surviving child, the bicyclist was the first one shot and the shooter made a specific effort to be sure he was dead.

There is a claim that the shooting was too disorganized for it to be a professional job, but it seems like the guy did a pretty good job. It makes you wonder.
 
The French authories are investigating this puzzling crime with intense vigor. Please, pass the pop corn
 
The French authories are investigating this puzzling crime with intense vigor. Please, pass the pop corn

:floorlaugh:

Do I sense sarcasm??

I really don't think we will ever hear the true story behind this case. Usually they can sweep these kind of things under the rug, but since kids were involved it's been a bit trickier.

I am waiting for the novel and subsequent movie to come out. I am not holding my breath that LE will announce anything of substance, let alone that the crime has been solved.
 
This whole thing stinks!

I remember early reports from the farmer that was dismissed very early in the case when I thought it to be crucial to the case. They've waited 4 months to come up with this?
He and the organisation he was recruited by are long gone.

I fear for the eldest daughter, who is possibly the only eye witness.
 
http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.64a0588a89399f7b4d02aeea13ddb73d.961

According to my interpretation of the google-translated version of the above article...

Here we are six months later. It doesn't sound like any of the significant leads have been resolved or highly developed.
- they are still looking for the motorcyclist
- they are still looking into possible motives related to SAH's work and checking his online activity (requested info from the US is not forthcoming from the ISP's, unless there is more specific evidence that it will be relevant to the crime)
- they are still looking into the family feud motive and are trying to get more information from Iraq as far as background

Oh, and of course, much of the information that they've collected has to be 'meticulously translated'.

In other words...not much progress. :(

Patience Snoop, patience. :waiting:
 
I still can't quite grasp the whole Brett Martin affair.

He stumbles onto a crime scene a few minutes after it happens, moves two bodies, has blood on his hands or gloves and the local police exonerate him because he is ex RAF and has nurffs of steel.

Rrrrriiiiight.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
212
Guests online
1,886
Total visitors
2,098

Forum statistics

Threads
599,521
Messages
18,096,073
Members
230,869
Latest member
tattvaspa895
Back
Top