France - Air France Plane from Rio to Paris Goes Missing Over Atlantic, 1 June 2009

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Truthful Lies said:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43140006/ns/travel-news/

"Black box reveals final minutes of flight 447: Recordings show pilot wasn't in cockpit when plane lost speed, German paper reports"
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The plane had 3 pilots. The Captain was on a rest break. The 3rd pilot gave the controls to 2nd pilot in command. He couldn't get it out of the stall because he pointed the nose down, instead of up. No air over the wings, no lift.
 
I hated reading that it took a long 3 and something minutes to plunge...the sheer terror =(
 
Nova said:
What do you believe the primary cause to be? (I'm sincerely asking. The article cited seems to mention everything from the icing of instruments to computer failure to poorly trained pilots.)
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the primary cause of the accident was the pitot tubes, made by a French firm. Thales. They were known to be defective in the wrong conditions (supercooled moisture at altitude). EADS, the european overseer of airlines (their answer to our NTSB) had stipulated/recommended that those tubes be changed, months before this crash, and Air France was taking the profit motive path to changing them. In other words, they were not changing them very fast. As a result, they continued to fail and it was just a matter of time before an inexperienced crew was presented with more than they could handle.

several crews recovered from their failures along the way. there were a lot of them, but it was just a matter of time b4 a situation arose like this one,and the two first officers flying the plane could not do it. It wasn't an easy thing to do. At night, over the Atlantic, atop massive thunderstorms, two inexperienced first officers= no chance.

Believe me (or not) everyone in aviation knows exactly why that plane crashed. Course, you'll rarely see it plainly stated, cause thats the way the ball bounces.
 
Truthful Lies said:
I hated reading that it took a long 3 and something minutes to plunge...the sheer terror =(
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Hi Truthful Lies, I hope beyond hope that losing altitude fast like that, people started to pass out quickly.

The sad thing is the families and friends left behind now, knowing what happened and the immediate horror of it. Like being stuck in that swath cut by the plane through those storm clouds and into oblivion. Just the thinking about it is too much to bear. IMO
 
scandi said:
Hi Truthful Lies, I hope beyond hope that losing altitude fast like that, people started to pass out quickly.

The sad thing is the families and friends left behind now, knowing what happened and the immediate horror of it. Like being stuck in that swath cut by the plane through those storm clouds and into oblivion. Just the thinking about it is too much to bear. IMO
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the Nova special indicated the aircraft struck the water pretty much intact. The passengers got Oxygen, so, unfortunately many were probably conscious. imo.

But thats just an uneducated guess. someone that really does that kind of analysis would pretty much know, imo.

that will come out in the civil suits, for sure.
 
The French legal system works very differently than in Common Law countries. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I followed this crash when it happened. It was a crazy mystery. I believe they first they knew something was wrong was when the plane just didn't land in Paris. Before the Malaysian MH370, it was the case of "how does a modern passenger jet just disappear?" Like 370, it occurred in a remote area, difficult to search. But it was an incredible search and investigation for sure. There are several great documentaries on this. Such a fascinating and tragic story.
 
gregjrichards said:
I don’t know how the French judicial system works but I don’t know if this will succeed.
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I am vaguely aware that Napoleonic Code has a concept of chains of responsibility regarding criminal acts as citizens are legally obligated to act responsibly. In contrast, our Roman Law system for criminal matters is almost always "plus or minus". Either one committed criminal act, or one did not-period.

A Navy Shore Patrol related to me that he took basic provisions / conducted welfare checks for a Marine who had been convicted of murder under Mexico's Napoleonic code:

- Marine goes to a brothel in Tijuana's infamous Zona Rosa. Gets into a fight with a Mexican citizen. The other man remains at the brothel. Marine goes to another one next door.

- Bar tender had called police about the fight. Mexican police arrive and are attacked by the other man with a knife. The police respond by killing him (end of story in our Roman law system).

-But.... under Napoleonic code, the Marine was partly responsible for the death of the man perhaps: Responsible citizens don't engage in fights with other people and conduct themselves better in shady places.

- The marine then gets convicted for murder citing that had he and the man not been fighting, the police would not have been called. Had the police not been called, they would not of been attacked. Thus, no need to kill the other man.. Sentence was for three years, but Shore Patrol told me he would be out in two.

They also told me that though the marine had been discharged, the military still provided palatable food and toiletries once a week and also ensured he had a private cell (really a mini suite) in the better part of the prison.
 
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Paulette said:
The plane had 3 pilots. The Captain was on a rest break. The 3rd pilot gave the controls to 2nd pilot in command. He couldn't get it out of the stall because he pointed the nose down, instead of up. No air over the wings, no lift.
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I think you meant the opposite with regard to the pitch of the nose - normal stall recovery is to lower the nose, thus reducing the angle of attack, allowing the wing to generate lift and increase airspeed.
 
novo8085 said:
I think you meant the opposite with regard to the pitch of the nose - normal stall recovery is to lower the nose, thus reducing the angle of attack, allowing the wing to generate lift and increase airspeed.
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Correct. While the one pilot was trying to get the nose down to increase speed and lift he did not realize that the other pilot had inexplicably been pulling back on the stick the entire time, keeping the nose up. It was total confusion.
 
I have always been interested in air crash investigations and this one had to be certainly one of the most interesting. There are some really good documentaries about the investigation.
 
abcnews.go.com

Families of crash victims rain wrath on Airbus, Air France

Distraught families whose loved ones died in Air France’s worst-ever crash have shouted down the CEOs of the airline and of planemaker Airbus as the two companies go on trial on manslaughter charges in Paris over the 2009 crash
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

www.reuters.com

Air France, Airbus face French court as AF447 crash trial begins

A French criminal court opened the historic manslaughter trial of Air France and planemaker Airbus on Monday, with relatives demanding justice 13 years after an A330 passenger jet ploughed into the Atlantic, killing everyone on board.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
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