Found Deceased France - Maëlys De Araujo, 9, Pont-de-Beauvoisin, 27 Aug 2017

[Jim_M]

I had to go look up the Code de procédure pénale. Relevant bits start with article 144-1, if anyone is as daft as I am (!) and wants to know the details.

In brief, it's longer than I thought, subject to certain and strict conditions.

Basically: 4 months - 1 year (which can be extended in 6 month increments if necessary), depending on the possible crime/possible charges (remember that as yet he has not been charged!), AND the suspect's previous convictions.

If I have time tonight, and can bear the eye-stabbing migraine it will probably induce, I'll sort out a translation and links to relevant legal code and interpretation.

Just a quick question, if I may? Has there been any report of the suspect having his DNA profile compared in their database? I am assuming that France has similar access, as the Codis system used by our FBI?

IMO that intermingled DNA should be enough to hold him until he tells them where to find young Maëlys. He needs to tell them now!

 

[ZaZara]

DISAPPEARANCE OF MAËLYS: THE UNFATOMABLE NIGHT OF THE SUSPECT

Le Dauphine
http://www.ledauphine.com/faits-divers/2017/09/13/maelys-l-insondable-nuit-du-suspect-rrlb

11:04: For the fourth time this week, the Swiss police officers and gendarmes of the Strasbourg Brigade plunged their sonars into Lake Aiguebelette. The search began at 9:45 a. m.

11:00 am: Le Guiers and about twenty ponds have been surveyed, the gorges of Chailles were searched by abseil, the lake of Aiguebelette is being explored since Sunday with the help of two sonars: the gendarmes seem bound to intensify their research on the ground, in search of the slightest hint that would allow them to lead them to Maëlys. The 9-year-old girl has been missing since her disappearance on the night of August 26-27, during a wedding in Pont-de-Beauvoisin (Isère).

While this tedious search work is to be extended to other locations in the coming days, such as Lake Paladru, the Grenoble investigators also hope to uncover a loophole in the schedule of the prime suspect, who was indicted and jailed for "kidnapping and sequestration" ten days ago. A painstaking task in order to reconstruct "the journeys he was able to make within an hour or an hour and ten minutes, knowing that he is driving fast," a source close to the case says.


BBM

 

[ZaZara]

DISAPPEARANCE OF MAËLYS: WITHOUT SUCCESS, THE SEARCH IS SCALED BACK

RTL.fr
http://www.rtl.fr/actu/societe-fait...dispositif-de-recherche-est-reduit-7790073984

The gendarmerie's efforts remain in vain and little Maëlys cannot be found. After another day of searches that yielded no results on Tuesday, September 12, investigators are considering reducing the size of the field deployment, AFP was told from a source close to the investigation. Since Maëlys' disappearance on 27 August, the gendarmerie has combed the region.

Research in the Chailles gorges (Savoie) is "completely finished". As for the one in the deep lake of Aiguebelette, close to the main suspect's home, they should continue this Wednesday. The Committee noted that the current state of the investigation indicated that "places where results could be obtained are being exhausted", and that it was considered that the focus of the research should shift to the aftermath of the judicial inquiry.

The first places on the list of investigators were the places where the principal suspect in the case, who had been under investigation since 3 September for "kidnapping and sequestration of a minor", used to go. The individual, a 34-year-old former soldier, has been accumulating inconsistencies in his statement in recent days. Many clues have caught the attention of the investigators, although the suspect still denies that he abducted the girl on the evening of the famous wedding in Pont-de-Beauvoisin, Isère. Since 27 August, major resources have been mobilised to find Maëlys, in vain.


BBM

 

[drwx]

Just a quick question, if I may? Has there been any report of the suspect having his DNA profile compared in their database? I am assuming that France has similar access, as the Codis system used by our FBI?

IMO that intermingled DNA should be enough to hold him until he tells them where to find young Maëlys. He needs to tell them now!

Yes the intermingled dna is enough to keep the suspect in detention for the maximum ammount the law allows and possibly for a circumstantial case.

Her dna should not have been in his car period. The dna transfer most likely happened in a blitz because he grabbed a very firm hold of the victim skin to skin contact and then immediately right after touched the driver side dashboard probably because he sped away in his car right after that (with the victim in his trunk).

 

[margeryoneill]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to firstly thank those of you who are being so kind in doing translating, I've been following this case since Maelys went missing, and I really appreciate being able to get information from French sources, thanks to you.

Secondly, some thoughts I've been having. I hope so much otherwise, but I can't get it out of my mind that she is being kept somewhere in a little prison, and that the reason they let him go for 5 days after his initial detainment was so that they could follow him to see if he went to her. Obviously, if this was the case, he didn't go to her. I'm also worried that if NL has her prisoner somewhere, that she's not being fed while he's in custody :/

Also, another question I have is, do they know what form her DNA was in? Was it from a hair found on the dashboard (on the light switch), or was it blood? I haven't read anywhere yet what they retrieved the DNA from.

 

[drwx]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to firstly thank those of you who are being so kind in doing translating, I've been following this case since Maelys went missing, and I really appreciate being able to get information from French sources, thanks to you.

Secondly, some thoughts I've been having. I hope so much otherwise, but I can't get it out of my mind that she is being kept somewhere in a little prison, and that the reason they let him go for 5 days after his initial detainment was so that they could follow him to see if he went to her. Obviously, if this was the case, he didn't go to her. I'm also worried that if NL has her prisoner somewhere, that she's not being fed while he's in custody :/

Also, another question I have is, do they know what form her DNA was in? Was it from a hair found on the dashboard (on the light switch), or was it blood? I haven't read anywhere yet what they retrieved the DNA from.

Yes that be possible NL has the victim detained somewhere that is why time is running out because if he operated by himself then the victim is not being fed while NL is locked up.
It is a good observation I considered that trying to monitor his movements and following him played part in releasing him the first time also.
But it is very reasonable they let him go the first time simply due to lack of evidence and I do not think they have extensively followed his every move during the time he was out.

If I had to guess I think they found both their skin cell dna or saliva/bodily fluid dna. If there was found blood traces then I think they would have mentioned that.

I have also read that law enforcement officials already knew with a high level of certainty the victim had been in his car before they had the dna results back.
Due to scent dogs which alerted them and hit on the victims scent in NL his car despite his efforts of cleaning it thoroughly.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Just a quick question, if I may? Has there been any report of the suspect having his DNA profile compared in their database? I am assuming that France has similar access, as the Codis system used by our FBI?

IMO that intermingled DNA should be enough to hold him until he tells them where to find young Maëlys. He needs to tell them now!

There have been no reports on whether the suspect's DNA has showed up in the database (FNAEG) but yes, such a database exists.

In fact, two other well known child murders (cold cases that were reopened in 2008) were solved, over 20 years after the fact, when the perpetrator's DNA turned up in the FNAEG because of a DUI & another driving offence (in 2005). In 2016, he was tried and sentenced to 30 years.

The murders of Sarah Siad (1991) and Saïda Berch (1996) were solved thanks to DNA profiling. On 25 July 2013, a man (who had been 15 years old at the time of the first murder) was investigated after traces of his DNA turned up at both of the different places where the two bodies were found.[11] The man's profile was on the FNAEG, the French national DNA database, due to having previously been arrested for driving under the influence and driving without insurance.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparus_de_l'Isère

 

[ZaZara]

I have also read that law enforcement officials already knew with a high level of certainty the victim had been in his car before they had the dna results back.
Due to scent dogs which alerted them and hit on the victims scent in NL his car despite his efforts of cleaning it thoroughly.

RSBM & BBM


Do you have a link for that?

 

[ZaZara]

JUDGES HAVE MET WITH THE PARENTS OF MAËLYS

Le Dauphine
http://www.ledauphine.com//faits-divers/2017/09/13/maelys-l-insondable-nuit-du-suspect-rrlb

15:25: From a judicial source, the Dauphine Libéré heard that the investigating magistrates in charge of the Maëlys case have received the girl's parents. The meeting took place this Wednesday morning at the Grenoble courthouse. For several hours, the magistrates listened at length to this couple who, for more than two weeks, have been living in an unbearable agony.

3:15 p. m.: Searches on the lake did not yield anything this morning on Lake Aiguebelette. This afternoon divers are expected to join the two sonars. At the same time, a helicopter from the gendarmerie will fly over the lake. He should be flying at a very low altitude looking for clues.


BBM

 

[drwx]

RSBM & BBM


Do you have a link for that?

Sure its a Belgium news site so its in Flemish though.

http://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20170904_03052350?utm_source=nieuwsblad

"Investigators at the time they were still waiting for DNA results where already fairly certain that the girl had been in the car. Due to Odorology, a technique used by the French gendarmerie. As everyone has specific fingerprints, everyone has their own scent. Specially trained dogs can distinguish them. DNA research subsequently confirmed the first findings."

 

[Sjm_qc]

Sure its a Belgium news site so its in Flemish though.

http://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20170904_03052350?utm_source=nieuwsblad

"Investigators at the time they were still waiting for DNA results where already fairly certain that the girl had been in the car. Due to Odorology, a technique used by the French gendarmerie. As everyone has specific fingerprints, everyone has their own scent. Specially trained dogs can distinguish them. DNA research subsequently confirmed the first findings."

Admittedly I had to use Google translate:
https://translate.googleusercontent...wsblad&usg=ALkJrhguZMA93PgFcmQWYB5LeO_N3Kn_8g

I'm not seeing that investigators had confirmation that Maelys was in NL's car before they found the DNA trace? I'm reading it as "suspected" she might have been in it?

 

[ZaZara]

Admittedly I had to use Google translate:
https://translate.googleusercontent...wsblad&usg=ALkJrhguZMA93PgFcmQWYB5LeO_N3Kn_8g

I'm not seeing that investigators had confirmation that Maelys was in NL's car before they found the DNA trace? I'm reading it as "suspected" she might have been in it?

Never trust google translate. I don't know how they manage to mix things up, but they do and they dare publish this as well.

Here's google:
Scientists at the time were waiting for DNA results to be sure that the girl had been in the car.

And this is the translation verified by me

Scientist police investigators were already quite sure at the moment while waiting for the DNA results that the girl had been sitting in the car.

The next question that arises is: was she sitting? or was this written by a reporter who wasn't thinking?
Because the presence of DNA doesn't confirm that she was sitting, unless on the dashboard between the steering wheel and the door on the left. The presence of DNA doesn't exclude a transfer either.

As far as I'm aware, what dogs sniff, does not hold up in court.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Never trust google translate. I don't know how they manage to mix things up, but they do and they dare publish this as well.

Here's google:
Scientists at the time were waiting for DNA results to be sure that the girl had been in the car.

And this is the translation verified by me

Scientist police investigators were already quite sure at the moment while waiting for the DNA results that the girl had been sitting in the car.

The next question that arises is: was she sitting? or was this written by a reporter who wasn't thinking?
Because the presence of DNA doesn't confirm that she was sitting, unless on the dashboard between the steering wheel and the door on the left. The presence of DNA doesn't exclude a transfer either.

As far as I'm aware, what dogs sniff, does not hold up in court.

BBM: I don't!! So extra thanks to you & drwx for verifying that! I think I've said before that I hate google translate because I know how badly it mangles the languages I *do* know & can verify.

 

[Elainera]

With the many searches of the area spanning 2 weeks and yielding no results I begin to wonder - are they fairly sure that she is deceased? Is it possible that he passed her on (sold her) to someone else rather than killing her and hiding her so well in a relatively short amount of time?

 

[MzOpinion8d]

DISAPPEARANCE OF MAËLYS: THE UNFATOMABLE NIGHT OF THE SUSPECT

Le Dauphine
http://www.ledauphine.com/faits-divers/2017/09/13/maelys-l-insondable-nuit-du-suspect-rrlb

11:04: For the fourth time this week, the Swiss police officers and gendarmes of the Strasbourg Brigade plunged their sonars into Lake Aiguebelette. The search began at 9:45 a. m.

11:00 am: Le Guiers and about twenty ponds have been surveyed, the gorges of Chailles were searched by abseil, the lake of Aiguebelette is being explored since Sunday with the help of two sonars: the gendarmes seem bound to intensify their research on the ground, in search of the slightest hint that would allow them to lead them to Maëlys. The 9-year-old girl has been missing since her disappearance on the night of August 26-27, during a wedding in Pont-de-Beauvoisin (Isère).

While this tedious search work is to be extended to other locations in the coming days, such as Lake Paladru, the Grenoble investigators also hope to uncover a loophole in the schedule of the prime suspect, who was indicted and jailed for "kidnapping and sequestration" ten days ago. A painstaking task in order to reconstruct "the journeys he was able to make within an hour or an hour and ten minutes, knowing that he is driving fast," a source close to the case says.


BBM

I'm so impressed with how hard they are working to find Maelys. They are all behaving as though it were their own child missing - that's the team I'd want if it were my child. ❤️❤️

 

[drwx]

Never trust google translate. I don't know how they manage to mix things up, but they do and they dare publish this as well.

Here's google:
Scientists at the time were waiting for DNA results to be sure that the girl had been in the car.

And this is the translation verified by me

Scientist police investigators were already quite sure at the moment while waiting for the DNA results that the girl had been sitting in the car.

The next question that arises is: was she sitting? or was this written by a reporter who wasn't thinking?
Because the presence of DNA doesn't confirm that she was sitting, unless on the dashboard between the steering wheel and the door on the left. The presence of DNA doesn't exclude a transfer either.

As far as I'm aware, what dogs sniff, does not hold up in court.

It means she was in the car not necessarily literally sitting that is just a bad google translation.
They knew fairly certain because of odorology by a specially trained scent dog and legitimately certified trained scent dogs (not what some regular beethoven sniffs) do hold up in court and are infact frequently used as evidence.
You can look up plenty cases where it is used succesfully.

Also I translated that myself and verified it myself because I speak both that language natively and English. It is not the reporters fault, it is a wrong translation and interpretation on your part due to the almost direct google translation this is why you get the faulty translation of sitting in the car instead of was present in the car.
Scientists is a completely wrong translation also, it says "speurders" which means "detectives/investigators" and not "scientists".
Wetenschappers = scientists

In the flemmish language we say directly translated "had sat or was sitting" in the car instead of was present in the car sometimes, which doesn't necessarily equals literally sitting in the car, so that is a wrong interpretation on your part.

An example of this in English language is a person who is standing and laying for most part while in prison, you would still say that person "sits in prison" and not say "that person lays in prison" or "stands in prison".

So when we say "at some point she was sitting in that car" it can mean either she was sitting laying or standing in the car, it can mean she was in the front in the back or in the trunk.

 

[drwx]

I hope that clarifies it a bit for you @ZaZara

 

[Sjm_qc]

It means she was in the car not necessarily literally sitting that is just a bad google translation.
They knew fairly certain because of odorology by a specially trained scent dog and legitimately certified trained scent dogs (not what some regular beethoven sniffs) do hold up in court and are infact frequently used as evidence.
You can look up plenty cases where it is used succesfully.

Also I translated that myself and verified it myself because I speak both that language natively and English. It is not the reporters fault, it is a wrong translation and interpretation on your part due to the almost direct google translation this is why you get the faulty translation of sitting in the car instead of was present in the car.
Scientists is a completely wrong translation also, it says "speurders" which means "detectives/investigators" and not "scientists".
Wetenschappers = scientists

In the flemmish language we say directly translated "had sat or was sitting" in the car instead of was present in the car sometimes, which doesn't necessarily equals literally sitting in the car, so that is a wrong interpretation on your part.

An example of this in English language is a person who is standing and laying for most part while in prison, you would still say that person "sits in prison" and not say "that person lays in prison" or "stands in prison".

So when we say "at some point she was sitting in that car" it can mean either she was sitting laying or standing in the car, it can mean she was in the front in the back or in the trunk.

I found your explanation very helpful, thank you!

 

[renarde]

Maybe his shorts were never found because he never changed shorts in the first place. Maybe there never were red wine stains. His mother couldn't recall what he was wearing, after all, even though she confirmed he did come home at one point.

 

[drwx]

Maybe his shorts were never found because he never changed shorts in the first place. Maybe there never were red wine stains. His mother couldn't recall what he was wearing, after all, even though she confirmed he did come home at one point.

From what I understood the shorts are really missing because they have pictures of the party where he's wearing those exact shorts and they havent been able to locate those.
So I think he did change shorts but not because of a wine stain but because of a dna stain.