"G (Guilty)" vs "NG (Not Guilty)" Where do you stand?

[Psmith]

I am arguing with you too, but I am sure we are in perfect harmony on this issue?

To me most criminals behave in irrational ways that do not fit with my view of life, and that could be one definition of insane. But I think the legal definition of insanity is much stricter than my day to day definition and standards for others. I think being "aware" of what they are doing and knowing it is WRONG is a good rough standard?

Yes, "aware" as in covering up not to be caught. The crime is not "wrong" ethically or morally to them but "bad" for them, as in punishment. That is how I understand the criterion, too.

Sorry, I can see I'm steering off topic. Apologies, all!

 

[marla]

Love your avatar, Phumi and I agree, if she is the murderer and then drove around with the body in her trunk on purpose for days and finally dumped the body right near her own home just feet from the curb of a street, and failed to remove the tape from the mouth, and all the other bizarre things to incriminate herself, I think she would have to be very mentally ill.

Mentally ill???
Good grief ..
Casey wishes that could be her defense ..

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Mentally ill? Possibly.

Stupid? Absolutely!

Guilty of 1st degree murder. (The duct tape took it out of the realm of accident for me.)

 

[Gma Kat]

Probably everyone here at WS has known someone in their life that was similar to KC in their sociopathic/narcissistic behavior. I think KC struggled, like many new moms, with the unexpected changes an unplanned baby can bring. I think her affection for Caylee was less than the photos and videos portray.. I feel she could have been one of those people that "played" loving mom, but perhaps was different when there was no one around to observe her behavior. She possibly fantasized about life without Caylee and enough events occurred that turned fantasy into the seed of reality. The pressure from her current bf AL to be more available to him coupled with the confrontation/physical altercation with CA brought the fantasy to a head. The research into missing children's cases helped her construct her scenario weaving tidbits of other cases into her story. I don't think she really ever thought out what would happen AFTER she eliminated Caylee. No doubt mentally she spiraled into a manic personality. Rejoicing in her new freedom, temporarily having solved all her problems. I strongly believe she simply expected it to be easy to get away with the crime. Her behavior indicates she clearly expected to get away with it without much questioning or suspicion of her. That explains why she didn't think twice about killing Caylee, scooping her up in the blanket that was already either around her or simply available so that she didn't have to look at her. Concealing the body in the car was a quick and safe place for her because only KC would have access to it in theory. She could enjoy some of the freedom she had been fantasizing about instantly. She could ignore the body in the car for now...then when decomp took over she went to the most logical place, a childhood hang-out. Her own personal graveyard. I don't think she ever worried about being caught, she thinks she's outsmarted everyone. Her family may have never given her consequences to her actions so her mind didn't formulate consequences to eliminating Caylee from her life. Obviously anyone who kills someone is not "right" with society, but I don't believe killing requires a mental illness. So my answer is First Degree Premeditated Murder......

 

[badme102]

My Vote: Guilty--1st Degree Murder

I just wanted to express something here, that is obviously only my opinion....

I know that a lot of people are more comfortable with the idea that anyone that could commit such a horrific crime MUST be insane, but it's just not true. Unfortunately there are millions of people all over this great Earth of ours, that are just plain and simply--EVIL.

Although, I completely understand the fact that there are truly criminally insane people, in my opinion, KC is not even close to being one of them...
A person that is legally insane doesn't have the capacity to distinguish right from wrong. Seeing that KC covered her tracks and lied at every turn (and then some), those actions immediately take the "insanity" BS off the table...

Thanks for reading my post.

 

[Rumpole]

My Vote: Guilty--1st Degree Murder

I just wanted to express something here, that is obviously only my opinion....

I know that a lot of people are more comfortable with the idea that anyone that could commit such a horrific crime MUST be insane, but it's just not true. Unfortunately there are millions of people all over this great Earth of ours, that are just plain and simply--EVIL.

Although, I completely understand the fact that there are truly criminally insane people, in my opinion, KC is not even close to being one of them...
A person that is legally insane doesn't have the capacity to distinguish right from wrong. Seeing that KC covered her tracks and lied at every turn (and then some), those actions immediately take the "insanity" BS off the table...

Thanks for reading my post.

I agree with you.

I think an understanding of GOOD and EVIL clarifies this and many situations.

Concepts like good and evil are not as widely understood in modern "progressive", secular, society.

 

[kageykaren]

Brain Imaging tecnologies have been advancing causing psychiatry and the law to be emeshed, but this will be of no hope for KC when this goes to trial! This keeps me sane when I'm feeling KC just might walk away with little time served.

 

[websurfer]

Who else thinks CASEy as it stands today DREAM DEFENSE or no DD will go down?


I say she is a dead duck and still think she resembles LIZZIE BORDEN.
I think she looks and has the attitude that LIZZIE had way back in those murderous days she was living in/

CASEY and LIZZIE both stole stuff/
they both were selfish
both were/are money hungry.

Maybe Lizzie came back as CASEY ?
Crazy?
Well....maybe?

Krazy KC:twocents:

 

[chefmom]

I think that the totality of the evidence will take her down. I honestly can't see any scenario under which JB and company can make any argument that will overcome the things that we know, and I feel confident that we do not know everything yet. I do not believe they will use the Nanny defense, since that would seemingly require KC to testify and that's not happening! They could try to throw someone else under the bus, but had better have something that looks damning against that person or it will just make KC look even more guilty. And, lastly, they could, and probably will, just attack the forensic evidence, all of which points directly at KC and only KC. They may make a reasonable argument against one or two pieces of the forensic evidence, but I can't see them being able to argue away every piece, and there are a lot of pieces there! So, I think it will be "Bye bye, KC!" My only question will be can she get the DP out of a jury or will it be LWOP?

 

[PrintGal]

Agree with chefmom- the totality of the evidence will overcome anything the defense puts out. Even if they attack the validity of some of the science they still won't be able to provide reasonable doubt. Unless a one-armed man shows up with videotape I think she's done. Most likely will get LWOP, the AL specialty.

 

[Brini]

Seagull: I bet she could have managed it one way or another, borrowed or taken enough money for a bus ticket to somewhere. But I don't think she would ever want to. That's part of the reason I don't think she would murder someone to be honest, she wouldn't want to have her social life disrupted!

Why would she have murdered in the first place, unless she suffers from serious mental illness, because she would know that all these problems would result. She would have to leave her social life and go off on her own, live on the run, etc. I don't think she'd want to do that and I definitely don't think she'd want to spend her life in prison. If she wanted out of her responsibilities I think she'd take the easy way and let her mother have either official or unofficial custody. I have trouble making the stretch to her killing Caylee at all much less premeditated. I can't rule her out but I think it's possible that someone who was around her may have harmed Caylee. She seems to be involved in something though, because she didn't report Caylee missing. Either she knew but was covering up for someone initially or thought they would kill her, too. Or, she didn't know Caylee was going to be harmed then, and still doesn't know exactly what happened or who did it. I'm still not sure. Great points you raise.

I think if she killed Caylee, she probably suffers from a serious mental illness, i.e. wasn't aware what she was doing, didn't remember she had the body in the trunk, etc, because I don't think she would knowingly jeopardize her freedom and so on. Also, just from the history, she was a young mother, and liked her social life, but there was no history of her not liking Caylee or mistreating Caylee, Caylee was a healthy, happy child up until June 15. So many witnesses who knew KC said that KC would never harm Caylee or just lose her or something and not look for her. I still have the feeling we don't have the full picture. I hope a lot comes out at trial. Thanks for your great points.

She's a sociopath. She doesn't think or plan, she just DOES, because she's not the sharpest sociopath.

She didn't let her mother have Caylee, because she's a spiteful sociopath. If she let Mom have Caylee, CA would "win" the tug of war they've had over Caylee, all her life.

She has never had a break with reality, so she isn't psychotic, to any degree.

It's not a serious mental illness, it's a character deficiency that may be innate.

Scott Peterson had most of the same considerations. Does he suffer from a serious mental illness, too?

 

[Brini]

My Vote: Guilty--1st Degree Murder

I just wanted to express something here, that is obviously only my opinion....

I know that a lot of people are more comfortable with the idea that anyone that could commit such a horrific crime MUST be insane, but it's just not true. Unfortunately there are millions of people all over this great Earth of ours, that are just plain and simply--EVIL.

Although, I completely understand the fact that there are truly criminally insane people, in my opinion, KC is not even close to being one of them...
A person that is legally insane doesn't have the capacity to distinguish right from wrong. Seeing that KC covered her tracks and lied at every turn (and then some), those actions immediately take the "insanity" BS off the table...

Thanks for reading my post.

Exactly! And, many, many mothers have killed their kids. Usually over a guy. KC's just another one.

Just another common-as-mud sociopathic mom.

 

[Brini]

i voted premed.

The reality is, all the girl had to do was get a real job to pay for a real nanny and she would have been able to go out on the town once in a while and also move out of her parent's house and have them out of her business.

The problem was she was way too lazy to do that so she eliminated the anchor bringing her down at the same time removing her mother's nagging voice.

The question is for how long would she have gone on with the fake job and nanny story? What was her long time plan, did she have one? I say no.

I say she just thought most people would be as indifferent to her child as she was and eventually she would choose to ignore her parents and never let them see caylee again, even though there was no caylee and maybe she was going to tell tone that she gave caylee away to give her a better life.

potd.

 

[Brini]

I am really surprised at the 10 people who still think this is an accident, and completely shocked that there are 5 people out there that think she is totally innocent.

Guilty, guilty, guilty! Murder one. No question.

Yeah, don't you hate it when your kid goes missing, and you forget to report it for 31 days? Drive me nuts, when I do that.

AND, of course, when people put dead bodies in your car, and you overlook it, for a few days. I HATE when that happens.

Of course, there are the times when my perfectly reliable nanny goes invisible, and all the evidence of her existence vanishes with her. Even all evidence of texts, emails, phone calls, and snail mails. Makes REAL problems for me at tax time.


Stick a pitchfork in KC. She's done.

 

[Brini]

Some of her friends that she's known for years mentioned on this board that she is quite intelligent, they rated her highly intelligent.
In answer to why would someone take LE to Universal, etc (tell the strange stories to LE that could be disproved immediately, etc)...exactly. That serves no strategic purpose for KC. Why would a calculating murderer do that when it would only make them look guilty? It doesn't make sense.

Sounds more like confusion/ possible mental illness, maybe just delirium from lack of sleep for weeks or using who knows what substances or some other cause, or trying to give fellow scamster friends a chance to cover tracks or whatever.

With respect:

WHO called KC intelligent??? Much less "highly intelligent."

Problem with her covering for a scamster, honey, is.. she was the worst scamster in her crowd. The chronic check-kiter. The identity thief. The robber of a helpless old man (her granddad), and her best friend. Lifetime liar and manipulator.

Pretty much the worst thing anyone else in her crowd did was smoke the occasional fatty.

If she killed Caylee "in a delirium," she wouldn't have been able to cover up and misdirect for months-- because she wouldn't know WHAT she was covering up.

Also, can anyone imagine KC taking the fall for her friends?

That babe would never cover for anyone, because her only loyalty is to herself. She has never had a psychotic break, and never been our of touch with reality. She has always known who and where she is and what she's doing.

She's just another Scott Peterson, Duane Peterson, Diane Downs, Susan Smith, or Stacy Barker. Were they ALL in a delirium?

 

[Brini]

I am surprised to see 14 people total that voted either NG Accident or NG Completely Innocent. Wow. My opinion, she is BEYOND GUILTY!!!

And, the mountain of evidence is higher than Annapurna.

 

[Tuffy]

Yeah, don't you hate it when your kid goes missing, and you forget to report it for 31 days? Drive me nuts, when I do that.

AND, of course, when people put dead bodies in your car, and you overlook it, for a few days. I HATE when that happens.

Of course, there are the times when my perfectly reliable nanny goes invisible, and all the evidence of her existence vanishes with her. Even all evidence of texts, emails, phone calls, and snail mails. Makes REAL problems for me at tax time.


Stick a pitchfork in KC. She's done.

BBM

Even more annoying when your nanny goes invisible and takes her entire family and her roommate with her. Her apartment becomes vacant, and the memory of her ever living there is wiped from the leasing agent's minds.

Almost as if she never existed at all...

 

[chefmom]

Yeah, don't you hate it when your kid goes missing, and you forget to report it for 31 days? Drive me nuts, when I do that.

AND, of course, when people put dead bodies in your car, and you overlook it, for a few days. I HATE when that happens.

Of course, there are the times when my perfectly reliable nanny goes invisible, and all the evidence of her existence vanishes with her. Even all evidence of texts, emails, phone calls, and snail mails. Makes REAL problems for me at tax time.


Stick a pitchfork in KC. She's done.

LMAO! That was so well put, Brini! I just wish we had a smiley that was holding up a "10" card! Lol!

:dance:

 

[Brini]

BBM

Even more annoying when your nanny goes invisible and takes her entire family and her roommate with her. Her apartment becomes vacant, and the memory of her ever living there is wiped from the leasing agent's minds.

Almost as if she never existed at all...

You're right!

AND, her mom and sister Sam and Sam's three kids evaporated, too!

 

[ecs5298]

LMAO! That was so well put, Brini! I just wish we had a smiley that was holding up a "10" card! Lol!

:dance:

I also wanted to thank Brini for putting it all back in perspective for us!

There's no other reasonable explanation for it. She killed her kid and then went about partying it up.

You can apply a gallon of lipstick, but it's still a pig!