GA GA - Brian Wehrle, 39, Carrollton, 23 Sept 2009

[carbuff]

Not as strange as it sounds. As the story went, due to flooding of historic proportions, some roads between Atlanta and Carrollton had been washed out. Brian supposedly got stuck driving 4 hours for a 45 minute trip going from Atlanta to Carrollton a few days earlier.

Yes, I know. And I had been accepting that at face value. But he doesn't need a topo map to find an alternate route back. It sounds to me like he had plans to go somewhere more remote.

I think I'm going to go back through the Atlanta news to see whether the roads were still flooded -- he'd been gone several days. I know the flooding was very bad, but states usually get the major highways re-opened pretty promptly.

 

[webrocket]

Yes, I know. And I had been accepting that at face value. But he doesn't need a topo map to find an alternate route back. It sounds to me like he had plans to go somewhere more remote.

I think I'm going to go back through the Atlanta news to see whether the roads were still flooded -- he'd been gone several days. I know the flooding was very bad, but states usually get the major highways re-opened pretty promptly.

never thought of his using it for other purposes, good thought carbuff.

 

[carbuff]

Okay, I just noticed something interesting: If you go from Atlanta to Chattanooga, back to Atlanta then to Carrollton, Googlemaps says that should take you about 4 and a half hours.

edited to add: article about the flooding -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Georgia_(U.S._state)_floods

It appears that I-20, the main route from Atlanta to points west, was flooded and closed on the 21st, with most detours also flooded. The route north was just as bad. So finding a route back is a legitimate concern. But on the other hand, these are main roads and information about closing etc. seems to have been prominently featured.

Might he have been trying to get to the farm that has been mentioned? Approximately where is that located?

 

[dreamweaver]

While the above posts are good thinking of what could have happened,
he did have an important meeting about his grandmother's care.
He missed it.
That was the reason he was in Carrollton.

 

[webrocket]

While the above posts are good thinking of what could have happened,
he did have an important meeting about his grandmother's care.
He missed it.
That was the reason he was in Carrollton.

I don't think it was his grandmother. The niece who posted the comment said it was her grandmother.

But that really is neither here nor there. If he was a random victim of a crime between 2 am and 8 am then LE should just do its job and figure out what happened to him. If he up and left then I don't think it matters that Brian was supposed to meet up with his sick mother that morning.

Any scenario is possible but consider this - Brian was one of 10 children, he has his own health problems at the young age of 40, he got "stuck" (my term not family's) caring for his father until his death, ditto his mother who I think has Alzheimer's and they were contemplating putting in a home, ditto his partner's mother who came to live with him and Jeff in Atlanta.

Being responsible for the care of (one) elderly parent is emotionally draining. Then factor in both parents when Brian has 9 brothers and sisters yet it fell into his lap. Then add the mother-in-law when one of the articles said Jeff had retired. So you have all these people available to care for the aging family members yet it all fell on poor Brian.

Sounds like more than enough reason to get the hell away from GA.

 

[carbuff]

Good point, webrocket. And he's not in good health himself.

 

[dreamweaver]

Per family:
Brian W is in good health. All his medical issues were corrected.
The reason stated by family that he would look at a topographical map
is that he thought spatially. He was a land surveyor and a geology student.
It worked for him.
No map has ever been found.
He cared for his parents by his own choice.
The care for his parents did not fall solely on him. Two sisters helped out a lot. When it became too much for him he stopped.
Jeffrey's mother had no cognitive decline like Brian's mother. Jeffrey's mother had lost her husband within the past year. It seemed to be a mutal solution by both
Jeffrey and Brian.
specific quote from niece:
"He didn't get "stuck" with my grandmothers care. Other sisters had offered and he insisted! "

 

[dreamweaver]

I asked more questions on FB pm. Will post when I have those answers.

 

[dreamweaver]

Answers to questions I posted to Brian's niece:

Date license plate taken:
The license plate was stolen on October 14th. This was three weeks after Brian went missing. It is two months before car is discovered in Chattanooga.

Fast food breakfast stop:
Brian would rather eat breakfast at home, not fast food. He liked to cook.
He would drink juice in the morning, not coffee. He did not drink coffee, so would not have stopped at a coffee house.
He liked to make things that took awhile to cook.

About who might have made Brian disappear:
Brian's niece feels that the person he ran into was from Carrollton.
She lived in Carrollton for 21 yrs until two years ago. She states she would not
have gone out to the store that late by herself.

quote directly from niece's post>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Wal-mart used to be located in the same strip as Kroger. It became a Super Wal-mart and built a store about a minute down the road.
A black female student was abducted from the parking lot in front of Wal-mart at it's old location when I was in high school. They found her a few weeks later dead. She was actually taken while there were people in the parking lot and if I remember correctly they still haven't caught who did it, but this was years ago.
My point is that things like this do happen. We have gangs, projects, pedophile's, and murderers just like everyone else. If I did not know Brian and read about the story in the paper I would not be shocked.
It's a completely different town at night. At that time of night it would be relatively desolate, there would still be a threat because stuff like this does happen in Carrollton and more often than the police and city council want to admit. "

Brian's niece feels police didn't want to treat Brian as a missing person and how they still refuse to think that something has happened because he left his cell phone on the counter. (that all they have and is their sole reasoning).

Bookstore hangout:
Brian's niece does not know about a favorite book store. Brian read a lot.
"The bookstores in Carrollton aren't that impressive, mainly old romance novels and the college bookstore is very small and only really has textbooks. It would be crowded with 8 people in the store. "

 

[dreamweaver]

from Brian Wehrle's FB page:
They are planning on funding a billboard about Brian's missing person status.
They are getting shirts and buttons made, looking for sponsors.

 

[carbuff]

http://www.edgeunitedstates.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=news&sc3=&id=101878
The Edge magazine article about Brian's disappearance.

A few thing there that I did not know about.

Per family:
Brian W is in good health. All his medical issues were corrected.
The reason stated by family that he would look at a topographical map
is that he thought spatially. He was a land surveyor and a geology student.
It worked for him.
No map has ever been found.
He cared for his parents by his own choice.
The care for his parents did not fall solely on him. Two sisters helped out a lot. When it became too much for him he stopped.
Jeffrey's mother had no cognitive decline like Brian's mother. Jeffrey's mother had lost her husband within the past year. It seemed to be a mutal solution by both
Jeffrey and Brian.
specific quote from niece:
"He didn't get "stuck" with my grandmothers care. Other sisters had offered and he insisted! "

Thanks. That clarifies my question about the map nicely. If he did in fact buy it, he might have had it with him (folded up in a pocket, for example).

Questions about the car: it's mentioned that it had a back window broken out -- is that the rear window, or a back side window? Which side? Was it covered over with plastic, or something? How do we know that it was already broken -- did somebody see it, or something? One report says the glass was still in the back seat. Is that true? If the window was just covered with plastic, that doesn't seem like a very secure repair for driving 5 hours in heavy rain. Did the car have water damage?

 

[webrocket]

since we now know that the plates which were eventually found on Brian's car in TN were not stolen from their rightful owner until 3 weeks after Brian disappeared. Even then Brian's car was not found for about another 2 months.

Other than the fact that Brian's car was found in Chattanooga with these other stolen plates, I still don't see why anyone from Chattanooga would go all the way to Carrollton in the middle of the night on the hope of finding someone on an overnight shopping trip to WalMart so they can take his car. Brian owned a 1992 Buick LeSabre. He may have known that the car worked fine but I would not feel comfortable taking such an old car on such a long trip.

Even if he were carjacked in Carrollton, where is Brian? Who is going to take great care to dispose of a body in complete darkness? At worst, the carjacker kills the occupant and dumps the body. Remember, there was no sign of any struggle. No blood, no broken glass (other than the previously broken window with the plastic still in place), no torn interior, etc.

The family said Brian would have put up a fight. Even the container of coins was still there undisturbed.

 

[carbuff]

Just because the car was abandoned in Chattanooga doesn't mean it was driven there by someone from Chattanooga. Nor that it was taken from Carrollton, for that matter. I'm not thinking carjacker -- or even murder, come to that. I'm still thinking medical incident.

I don't have anything as concrete as a theory, but I'm noticing that from 2am when he was seen in the garage to 9am (10am?) when he was supposed to meet with the family is the same not-quite-5-hour interval that it took to get to Carrollton on the 21st (assuming he wanted to get there a few minutes early). I'm wondering whether there was some other problem/interest/business in that two-hour circle that he thought he could get to and back before the meeting, and he had a heart attack or medication reaction or something while he was there.

The most obvious thing that comes to mind is that he realized he had forgotten something he needed for the meeting and went back to Atlanta or to the farm (do we know where that is?) to pick it up.

The car sounds like it might have been in a barn or carport somewhere before it was "recovered." That's why I was wondering about the details of its condition. I'm thinking somebody might have been hoping to sell it to a "chop shop" or collector -- a 1992 Buick LeSabre might sound like a clunker to you, but it's a car many people love and it's on the edge of being a classic. Not quite old enough yet, but that's the kind of car many collectors like to pick up while they're still cheap. Possibly the collector had it, realized it belonged to a missing person, and decided he didn't want it any more

since we now know that the plates which were eventually found on Brian's car in TN were not stolen from their rightful owner until 3 weeks after Brian disappeared. Even then Brian's car was not found for about another 2 months.

Other than the fact that Brian's car was found in Chattanooga with these other stolen plates, I still don't see why anyone from Chattanooga would go all the way to Carrollton in the middle of the night on the hope of finding someone on an overnight shopping trip to WalMart so they can take his car. Brian owned a 1992 Buick LeSabre. He may have known that the car worked fine but I would not feel comfortable taking such an old car on such a long trip.

Even if he were carjacked in Carrollton, where is Brian? Who is going to take great care to dispose of a body in complete darkness? At worst, the carjacker kills the occupant and dumps the body. Remember, there was no sign of any struggle. No blood, no broken glass (other than the previously broken window with the plastic still in place), no torn interior, etc.

The family said Brian would have put up a fight. Even the container of coins was still there undisturbed.

 

[dreamweaver]

Thanks. That clarifies my question about the map nicely. If he did in fact buy it, he might have had it with him (folded up in a pocket, for example).

Questions about the car: it's mentioned that it had a back window broken out -- is that the rear window, or a back side window? Which side? Was it covered over with plastic, or something? How do we know that it was already broken -- did somebody see it, or something? One report says the glass was still in the back seat. Is that true? If the window was just covered with plastic, that doesn't seem like a very secure repair for driving 5 hours in heavy rain. Did the car have water damage?

The window that is broken out is on the passenger side rear window.
It is covered in plastic.
The incident happened in Georgia, and something was taken from the back seat.
There is a pdf file pics of Brian's car after it was recovered.
I thought I had posted it, but will do so again.
http://media.timesfreepress.com/docs/2009/12/Wehrle_report_1209.pdf

Notice the thick plastic on the rear window. It is partially hanging down.

ot: A long time ago, I had a car with a window that would not roll up, so it was taped over with plastic. It was very noisy, but it held up for awhile.

 

[carbuff]

The window that is broken out is on the passenger side rear window.
It is covered in plastic.
The incident happened in Georgia, and something was taken from the back seat.
There is a pdf file pics of Brian's car after it was recovered.
I thought I had posted it, but will do so again.
http://media.timesfreepress.com/docs/2009/12/Wehrle_report_1209.pdf

Notice the thick plastic on the rear window. It is partially hanging down.

ot: A long time ago, I had a car with a window that would not roll up, so it was taped over with plastic. It was very noisy, but it held up for awhile.

Thank you so much. I knew I had seen that somewhere and couldn't find it, and I thought I remembered the plastic being partly out of place.

If the car doesn't have water damage, that would imply it was parked in a sheltered place, or it came loose only shortly before it was found.

 

[dreamweaver]

Just because the car was abandoned in Chattanooga doesn't mean it was driven there by someone from Chattanooga. Nor that it was taken from Carrollton, for that matter. I'm not thinking carjacker -- or even murder, come to that. I'm still thinking medical incident.

I don't have anything as concrete as a theory, but I'm noticing that from 2am when he was seen in the garage to 9am (10am?) when he was supposed to meet with the family is the same not-quite-5-hour interval that it took to get to Carrollton on the 21st (assuming he wanted to get there a few minutes early). I'm wondering whether there was some other problem/interest/business in that two-hour circle that he thought he could get to and back before the meeting, and he had a heart attack or medication reaction or something while he was there.

The most obvious thing that comes to mind is that he realized he had forgotten something he needed for the meeting and went back to Atlanta or to the farm (do we know where that is?) to pick it up.

The car sounds like it might have been in a barn or carport somewhere before it was "recovered." That's why I was wondering about the details of its condition. I'm thinking somebody might have been hoping to sell it to a "chop shop" or collector -- a 1992 Buick LeSabre might sound like a clunker to you, but it's a car many people love and it's on the edge of being a classic. Not quite old enough yet, but that's the kind of car many collectors like to pick up while they're still cheap. Possibly the collector had it, realized it belonged to a missing person, and decided he didn't want it any more

I think the car was in a barn or garage and hidden away also.

IMO: I don't think Brian would have driven back to Atlanta or his farm.
It was a 5 hr one way trip due to the flooding.
He wanted to be there for the meeting in Carrollton about his mother at 10am. That was the purpose for the trip.
So between 2am when he was seen by the neighbor and 8:30am when the neighbor noticed his car was gone, there is a 6 hour window.

I think the farm is located outside Atlanta.

 

[dreamweaver]

http://www.edgeunitedstates.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=news&sc3=&id=101878
'snipped'

Johnson said a crime scene specialist with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation processed the car. This investigator sent the materials to the state crime lab, but Johnson said he is waiting for the results. He added there is no time frame as to when the tests will be completed.

For now, Rolsten replays his last conversation with Wehrle in his head. The two spoke for the last time on Sept. 23. Wehrle called Rolsten while visiting his sister and spoke about going to Wal-Mart to purchase a topographical map to find alternate routes to their Atlanta home--the floods had made several of the area’s main roads impassable. As a land surveyor, Wehrle would have been able to easily read a topographical map and navigate his way back to Atlanta.

Wehrle also called his best friend later that evening. He talked about a much-anticipated trip to Florida with Rolsten the following weekend, but they would not get to take their vacation.

After visiting with his sister, Wehrle returned to his family home. A neighbor saw him working in his garage around 2 a.m. Rolsten recalled this was not unusual for Wehrle because he had odd sleeping habits and suffered from insomnia. The neighbor left for work around 8:30 a.m., and he did not see the car in the garage.

..more at link..

 

[Mrs.Peacock]

As I am reading this thread what strikes me first off is how little publicity this story has received. I live within 20 minutes of Carrollton in the Atlanta suburbs and have not seen this story on our local news.
A couple of questions regarding the time frame:
Where was the "family meeting" set to take place? In Carrollton? At a family member's house? I don't know that this question has been answered. How far of a drive would this have been?

Is there a possibility that in the morning hours before 9am Brian left the house without the neighbors noticing and a carjacking/medical emergency occurred at that point?

Has his partner's whereabouts been confirmed the night Brian went missing? Is it possible that he drove down in the early morning hours?


Carrollton is a pretty safe place, relatively speaking. It is a small college town. But between the hours of 2am-9am, any place can become a possible danger. Thursday night is "party" night for college students who return home on the weekends but bars close at 2am. It doesn't sound like he was the type to hang out a the local bar with college students.

Regarding the Taco Bell receipt- in our area the cashier at the window usually hands the customer a small "envelope" for lack of a better term with the receipt, change and napkins. I could see him tossing that into the passenger seat and not thinking another thing about it. At any given time I'm sure that a random Taco Bell receipt could be found in the floorboard of my own car.

This is case is baffling. So many unanswered questions and unturned evidence, especially regarding the condition of the car. In September the metro Atlanta area received unseen amounts of rain and flooding was widespread, particularly in the area Northwest Atlanta. If the car was driven from Atlanta to Chattanooga within that last week of September, surely there would be significant evidence of plant material or sediment on the underside of the car indicating if it has been driven through flooded areas or off-road.

 

[dreamweaver]

As I am reading this thread what strikes me first off is how little publicity this story has received. I live within 20 minutes of Carrollton in the Atlanta suburbs and have not seen this story on our local news.
A couple of questions regarding the time frame:
Where was the "family meeting" set to take place? In Carrollton? At a family member's house? I don't know that this question has been answered. How far of a drive would this have been?

Is there a possibility that in the morning hours before 9am Brian left the house without the neighbors noticing and a carjacking/medical emergency occurred at that point?

Has his partner's whereabouts been confirmed the night Brian went missing? Is it possible that he drove down in the early morning hours?


Carrollton is a pretty safe place, relatively speaking. It is a small college town. But between the hours of 2am-9am, any place can become a possible danger. Thursday night is "party" night for college students who return home on the weekends but bars close at 2am. It doesn't sound like he was the type to hang out a the local bar with college students.

Regarding the Taco Bell receipt- in our area the cashier at the window usually hands the customer a small "envelope" for lack of a better term with the receipt, change and napkins. I could see him tossing that into the passenger seat and not thinking another thing about it. At any given time I'm sure that a random Taco Bell receipt could be found in the floorboard of my own car.

This is case is baffling. So many unanswered questions and unturned evidence, especially regarding the condition of the car. In September the metro Atlanta area received unseen amounts of rain and flooding was widespread, particularly in the area Northwest Atlanta. If the car was driven from Atlanta to Chattanooga within that last week of September, surely there would be significant evidence of plant material or sediment on the underside of the car indicating if it has been driven through flooded areas or off-road.

The meeting was in Carrollton. I am unsure where it was going to be at.
I don't think anyone has said.
I think the meeting was there in Carrollton, probably a 5 minute drive, if that. I will check in with Brian's niece to make sure.
The house in Carrollton belongs to Brian's parents. But he stayed there when he went down to Carrollton, which was often.

Almost anything is possible at this point. He left the house in his car.
He left behind cell phone, etc. It looked like he just went out for a short quick errand.
If he had a medical emergency, which is what I first thought, his body would have been found by now.
As for a robbery or carjacking, the car he was driving would not have made anyone think he had money on him.
And the tupperware bowl full of change was still in the car when it was discovered in Chattanooga.

IMO: his partner is not involved in Brian's disappearance at all.
I do not know if police checked on an alibi.

From what family says, Brian was not the type to hang out at the bar scene.
And as for the Taco Bell receipt, there may be one in my car right now. I didn't attach too much importance to that.

I thought the same thing about sediment and plant debris on the underside of his car. I am hoping GBI will release the results of the forensic tests on Brian's car very soon.

 

[carbuff]

I don't think it's at all certain that his body would have been found by now. If he wandered in the wrong direction while confused, fell down an embankment while trying to reach help, or was struck and flipped by a car, the body could have fallen into a ditch, swampy patch, body of water, etc. If he was in an area people didn't expect him to be in, he'd be even less likely to be discovered. Water was at record high levels. He could have stumbled into a stream where it's usually dry and been washed quite a distance.

I'm thinking that if he did have something private, he might have told a bit of a white lie about the trip -- that not all the long trip was caused by the flooding, but it made a good excuse. And if he did find a topographical map to get a better route, that would shorten the trip.