GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #1

[Bently]

Bently.... I will work on the timeline more today...just finished work....was a little bit frustrated yesterday, because people keep asking questions where answers are in the thread....sorry.....a little bit inpatient, only human.... is it possible to delete former summary's? Because the text is now here a couple of times, with updates and this could be confusing, disturbing for the readers of this thread. Also..is it possible to attach a summery somewhere In the beginning of the thread, so people could read this first so we don't have repeat ourselves over and over again. Not meaning this nasty at all, btw.

Thanks!

At the end of your post....A Question to contact a mod, as we may not be appropriate/approved person to guide you?

 

[All3Mine]

If it helps-
Re: lying to LE: A person can be charged with a crime if they lie about a material fact to ANY law enforcement agency. There wouldn't be a distinction between local LE or Federal. There are different laws that define different ways that that law can be broken-false statement etc. (in case you're law nerdy like I am and are interested- note that a person "can" be charged for lying to LE. In practice it wouldn't happen unless the person was esp. deceitful about something very important. Or, if the person lied about something material and also committed a crime that the state can't prove. Like the mob and tax evasion.

Re: FBI jurisdiction (when they get involved)-usually it is when there are multiple state jurisdictions involved-they have reason to believe that this search/case has to do with more than one state. The FBI isn't better than local LE necessarily they just have more reach and more resources.

As an aside-and just my .02- I would never give out any investigators direct contact to anyone-esp on a public website unless said investigator 100% says it's okay. As a former prosecutor I can't imagine any LE officer wanting to be a one person tip line-but I could be wrong. I think there's a tip line-which is much better. There are just a lot of leads to sort thru and some of them need to be sifted out. As we all know LE are overworked/underpaid and time is much better spent than sorting out every single tip of the 1000's that will come in. I saw someone, with good intentions, wanting to list the investigators direct line and I cringed. I'm no expert tho and I'm a SAHM mom now-so I could be wrong.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I apologize if my post of questions from the beginning are repeats & are answered further in the thread! I have followed closely & read through many pages multiple times. Naturally I may have forgotten a piece of information here & there!

I love the timeline you're working on & again, I do apologize if I posted questions that are already answered!

I agree and if my unanswered questions are answered anywhere in the thread I apologize too. Perhaps someone would be good enough to point out where the answers are for us? as that is what I try to do on other threads that are very much longer than this one. If I can answer a question then I do, and presume others would be happy to do the same. There are a lot of guests following also, so we are not just informing each other on here. :wave: to all you guests, why not join us? Putting the timeline in the first post will be very helpful. JMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Does this help?

RSBM
Re.Lying to LE.
Indeed. TYVM. I also googled it and loads of info too, boring as it is. Everyone knows you don't lie to a cop.

 

[FrozenPeach]

To those of you doing your own searches investigating people who aren't well-versed in facebook, one way to see connections is: https://www.facebook.com/friendship/username1/username2/
so if you are for instance looking at Jenna and a friend (since her profile is public knowledge, pretty sure I can post that?)
https://www.facebook.com/friendship/jenna.vangelderen/username2/
but note that this does not include comments from one to the other or likes on posts, etc. - just direct wall posts, mutual acquaintances/workplaces.

Different topic, I know, but maybe it helps some of you dig deeper with what knowledge there is available to the public. Of course the presumed male in the vehicle with her may not have been known to her at all even through mutual friends, we don't know.

 

[Elainera]

I feel scared to ask, I obviously missed something, but did someone lie to a LEO? Or why is this being discussed?

 

[dalsglen]

To those of you doing your own searches investigating people who aren't well-versed in facebook, one way to see connections is: https://www.facebook.com/friendship/username1/username2/
so if you are for instance looking at Jenna and a friend (since her profile is public knowledge, pretty sure I can post that?)
https://www.facebook.com/friendship/jenna.vangelderen/username2/
but note that this does not include comments from one to the other or likes on posts, etc. - just direct wall posts, mutual acquaintances/workplaces.

Different topic, I know, but maybe it helps some of you dig deeper with what knowledge there is available to the public. Of course the presumed male in the vehicle with her may not have been known to her at all even through mutual friends, we don't know.

Ooh how do you do that? Don't break my heart and tell me its on desktop only

 

[Shiressleuth]

I feel scared to ask, I obviously missed something, but did someone lie to a LEO? Or why is this being discussed?

Bently was asking about it originally. I don't know the reason. Don't be scared to ask. But be prepared to dislike the answer. ullhair:

 

[FrozenPeach]

Ooh how do you do that? Don't break my heart and tell me its on desktop only

You can *always* use a desktop version on a mobile. Just may not look so good or function so well. In the mobile browser there should be a menu box, usually top right corner, and a check box in that menu ("request desktop site"). At least that is how google chrome works on mobile.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Different topic, I know, but maybe it helps some of you dig deeper with what knowledge there is available to the public. Of course the presumed male in the vehicle with her may not have been known to her at all even through mutual friends, we don't know.

RSBM

Do you mean as in being carjacked/kidnapped/robbed/abducted scenarios?

Has there been any of those types of crimes in Atlanta? eg. stranger abductions?

 

[Shiressleuth]

So, I've started at the beginning of this thread & looking back, I have a few questions.

When was the last time brother had a verbal conversation with Jenna? Last time he saw her? When did he text with her last? Is it typical for them to communicate with one another on a day to day basis?

Post 234


DID SHE TALK TO MOM 1/2x FRIDAY? Any on Saturday?

Post 239 Mention of suitcase missing.

How do they know she brought a suitcase? Size? Taking into account the size of the suitcase, one could assume the quantity of clothing it would hold. Were her clothes missing as well? Or was everything, except suitcase, tapestry & Jenna still at the home?

Post 246

Post 247


Has this question ever been answered? Is it allowed to be answered?

Post 291


Subie responded saying,

Is there any confirmation whether flyers have been posted anywhere??

I'm nowhere near the end, yet! Just wanted to put these here for now...

Subie, could you respond to my questions and these of others who have asked about the male passenger?
Finding it hard to follow when you or your family last had any contact with Jenna on that Friday also.

Ok back to the beginning. The poster states J went missing on Friday 18th. Subie states she spoke to a friend and sent a text at 02.30 a.m. on Saturday 19th And she was reported missing on the 20th. Why aren't LE considering that conversation and text as the last contact? What phone did she use for this contact as both phones are missing? Did the friend in SC say which phone was used when LE spoke to them?

There are inconsistencies with timings again. The text was after 2am on this link and the brother turned up at 'daybreak'. I know it may seem petty but timings really are crucial. Overall, between the timing of the fuel stations, the time jenna was last seen, the last text, the time her brother checked on her, the time delay in reporting her missing hours have been lost. If at least one of these pieces were right and with evidence to back it up then you have somewhere to start and something to work on.

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Just bumping some of the outstanding questions as a reminder for follow up. Apologies if they have been answered but I don't believe they have been yet AFAIK.

 

[Bit of hope]

I'm sorry but all the open ends and questions are in my timeline...so what is it with you Shiresleuth? Please work with me/us and put this questions in the timeline (as far they are not there)

 

[noseynellie]

RSBM

Do you mean as in being carjacked/kidnapped/robbed/abducted scenarios?

Has there been any of those types of crimes in Atlanta? eg. stranger abductions?

Maybe more like she chose to bring someone back to her parents' house and might not have known them very well - or at least at an obvious level, like a close friend, boyfriend, ex. Just guessing.

I still have that question outstanding, too. It would be awesome if someone confirmed she actually went to that club that night.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

RSBM

Do you mean as in being carjacked/kidnapped/robbed/abducted scenarios?

Has there been any of those types of crimes in Atlanta? eg. stranger abductions?

This is the most recent to my knowledge. However the Kroger is at least ~ 60 miles away! The Kroger is near West Ga College in Carroll County. She got away near midtown Atlanta. (Which is closer to the area from where Jenna went missing from)
MOO
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/278661435-story
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[Bently]

I feel scared to ask, I obviously missed something, but did someone lie to a LEO? Or why is this being discussed?

Bently was asking about it originally. I don't know the reason. Don't be scared to ask. But be prepared to dislike the answer. ullhair:

:giggle:

Yeah, you're perhaps going to dislike the answer only because I think so random and try to connect things that aren't there, and it's hard sometimes to communicate my thought pattern when asked and I appear . Seriously!

Here goes my attempt to try to put into words my thoughts, and perhaps someone else can explain my thoughts better than I can :floorlaugh:

I guess I reacted to a post where I had a thought that someone might be lying I guess. Not saying they were, but just made me think of the consequences if someone did lie, and I mistakenly thought that having FBI was different lying to than normal LE (I have been set straight by many here, I must have dreamed the consequences were more for lying with FBI/felony... or stuck in my brain due to too much watching of Investigation Discovery channel here in the States..lol.)

Anywhooo, what struck me was the post #464 by VI (not on timeline I don't think), which states:

"The tricky part right now is figuring out the last few hours before her activity ends. There is this apartment / townhome I mentioned. Still figuring out the deal with that and then I discovered that the timeline goes a bit more and shows driving from there down to midtown (14th and Crecsent Ave) which is near Opera night club. We also know that she was in my moms cars most of that night, so she had to have come back (with someone we assume) to have the cars switched"

and the information on the timeline above which states:

"Friend talked to her briefly before she left (to where?) By media ….he told the police. Face to face, by phone. What time? Friday night she had left a friends place to come home around 11 pm, in mother's car. Why in mother’s car? (post 34 by brother) He claims she wanted a relationship but he didnot knowing the theft issue. Posted by brother post 167"

I guess when I first read one of these statements, I thought back to the other statement .

I had in my mind that the last whereabouts were her apartment to then travel near the Opera in midtown. An intersection was given, so I thought the mention of the Opera meant that VI was unsure of where she was, so he added "near Opera", vs. saying....... that it was to the friends place that she left from to go home around 11 pm in the mothers car, and VI saying that she had to have come back with someone to have the cars switched.

Just came to mind to ask what are the consequences of lying to FBI. It just didn't jive to me that she left her apartment, went down to an area in mid-town near the Opera, but it wasn't stated that this area was the friend place that she was at around 11 pm (I also assumed this was also the person that said he didn't want a relationship due to the thefts,

.......and VOILA my hinkey meter went off with that statement by friend to the FBI when interviewed... as to perhaps distance himself iykwim).

as at the time I read it, I perceived (wrongly?) that this all was referring to her last stop before she went home, and was late at night, before the activity ended.

See! The poster was right in that my answer you might not like and ullhair: as I try to keep up and put stuff together, but we don't have times on all this so I may be off, and I cannot for the life of me put my thoughts succintly down on paper (internet) to relay what I'm thinking. Grrrrrrrr.

But... I did try to answer!

 

[FrozenPeach]

RSBM

Do you mean as in being carjacked/kidnapped/robbed/abducted scenarios?

Has there been any of those types of crimes in Atlanta? eg. stranger abductions?

As far as I have read before, Atlanta is one of the largest locations for human trafficking in the US so yes you would presume so - with abductions. Don't see any particular reports on individuals but that is probably because of the sensitive nature of most of those cases - especially if minors - but a lot of the women wouldn't want their names released I'd think?
But I wasn't referencing that in particular just that we don't know anything as a fact right now, so checking her connections on facebook are only worthwhile if she knew the person.

I posted some pages back about carjackings that week, pretty common in Atlanta. Just check news on google - Atlanta carjacking...

As to trafficking? you can look up the depressing statistics, Atlanta is pretty high up there :/ But weird crimes always happen in Atlanta. Knew some people in the neighborhood behind my school that got held up and told to strip by people who robbed their house, they were 2 guys - they tied them up and left them naked in their house. Probably the weirdest thing that happened there, but not uncharacteristic in the least. A lot of my friends (I really mean a lot) were held at gun point or knife point at some point for cash or something, usually near gas stations. But this is not the area she was living in or her parents were living in. Just trying to make a point that Atlanta is not a safe city by any means - the potential for violence is always there. Could it be a stranger, sure.

I have a bigger question though: did she always have a second cell phone? is it possible she had found a phone and was supposed to return it to someone that night or they were supposed to come get it - but that is where it all went wrong?

 

[noseynellie]

At 11:50 pm thought ? The number for the pocket dial was tied to an Instagram account as well that leads me.to believe something more is up. Also metro pcs number as well. Metro pcs did say her no she was not the primary account holder as well.

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Frozenpeach- he said she was not the primary account holder for the second phone. Not sure if it means she was still listed as a user or if it was someone else's phone entirely. That's an interesting idea.

 

[Henry2326]

My hinky meter needs new batteries because it has been going off from the beginning.

Me too....I wasn't going to be any help to you guys so I've been watching on the sidelines. I hope she is safe...but have difficulty connecting the dots.

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[Capebluff]

I'm sorry but all the open ends and questions are in my timeline...so what is it with you Shiresleuth? Please work with me/us and put this questions in the timeline (as far they are not there)

I don't believe Shiresleuth was directing the posting towards you. Correct me if I'm wrong @Shiresleuth!

The only person who could probably answer these questions, considering I haven't seen them answered yet here, would be brother. JMO!

 

[Shiressleuth]

It seems to me the timings of the gas station final visit and the time J was heading home according to a friend were around 11/11.30 p.m. and with a male passenger. It is likely something happened between that time and the 2/2.30 p.m. text to the SC friend. The mothers car was returned undamaged and the front seats were left as if J had driven and the taller male was the passenger. By the next day, the male passenger, J, her car, the tapestry and a suitcase were all missing from the house and with the house in disarray yet the door was deadlocked from outside.
If it can be established if/when J spoke to her SC friend that night and what was said, and how soon after the conversation the laying down text was then sent, it may be possible for LE to determine the location of the phone during the hours 11.00 p.m. till 2.30 a.m. and trace the vehicle on cctv. They may of course have already done this and be following leads. I hope there is more positive info forthcoming from LE in the next day or so. JMO