GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #2

[Shiressleuth]

She was seen driving her mom's car with a male passenger.

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Could you remind me who this witness was who saw this and where? (Eg. Person 1, 2 or 3 or Subie/MSM/LE etc.)

 

[Bit of hope]

That's what I am thinking. I don't think the media got it correct, because I'm not aware of any conversation where her s.c friend or another friend said they were coming by on the 19th
The vet assistant was the only one coming by.

I hope the media isn't twisitjng things to make their own narrative

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Also Subie (and that is what I find disturbing in the media coverage and new for your family) is that so called SC girlfriend would have said that she was on her way to Atlanta...to Jenna, being upset.

First why would she be that upset, there was no breaking up, that night, that was already in February. Maybe she still loves this ex-boyfriend and he confronted her (just to get rid of her) with a story about hearing about her prostituting. To be clear I really really don't think this is the case at all and yes that could be disturbing, upsetting. Wonder what Jenna and SC friend exchanged that night...Lot's of thoughts about this guy but I will not share...(My nasty me "maybe if you give me such and such, (can I use your car), buy diner at Wendy's for me etc....this might have a chance"....)

Second SC friend has a child...In my world you are not going away in the middle of the night alone, or pulling your child out of bed to go to a friend in distress. If you could talk and comfort them through phone contact....or if you really need somebody to talk face to face; inviting them to come to your house instead in this circumstance.

 

[Bit of hope]

It's almost like a mantra...by who, where and when was Jenna seen in her in mom's car with an unknown male. (so sorry if this is annoying)

 

[noseynellie]

That's what I am thinking. I don't think the media got it correct, because I'm not aware of any conversation where her s.c friend or another friend said they were coming by on the 19th
The vet assistant was the only one coming by.

I hope the media isn't twisitjng things to make their own narrative

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Subie, do you know if Jenna was back up near her apartment that night? I remember you saying that College Park guy suggested meeting closer to her apartment (or later Lindbergh area) and she didn't show. Yet the woman on FB says she was right there using her card at 11. Is that accurate? Just wondering if maybe she did pick him up or if there is another reason why she decided not to meet him even though she was nearby and not answer his calls.


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[pamelado2]

With the information from subie that her her boyfriend (?) had borrowed her car and not returned it previously, I'm wondering if she had it at all that night. There's been several suggestions as to why she would be driving her mom's car, but it being driven by someone else seems the least speculative, as we know it had happened before. Also per subie, she'd had belongings in her car for some time, not necessarily placed there that day. If that guy or someone had it, they may have been afraid to come forward (with or without good reason) and left it near the studio, either because that's where it already was or as a dump site.

That said, it's harder for me to figure out where Jenna was when she went missing. The easiest explanation would be that something happened at her parents' home, then Jenna and a potential perpetrator left, with her purse and phones, in Jenna's car, or Jenna and a potential perpetrator were somewhere, with Jenna's car/purse/phones, and something happened there. Based on available phone data, it sounds like either she was staying put from ~1130 on, or her PCS phone (this was the one with Timeline on?) was no longer recording her location (low power mode, dead). Do we know which phone her SC friend had contact with her on? I assumed the T Mobile.

As far as "lying down", I could see it meaning that she was upset and going to get in bed but not necessarily sleep. She might've been upset enough to go find this guy somewhere after that, even, but I don't understand why it wouldn't show up on her timeline. I would think she would charge her phone at home or in her car.

And finally we're at the point of wondering why exactly it was that she went missing. The car was found in an area of some criminal activity, if you will, but nothing that fits the m.o. A drive by shooting, mugging--these are very different from what seems to have happened to Jenna. In those cases, we would know exactly where she was, and finding her would've been the first clue, and not the last. The first possibility is that she decided to leave on her own--with no obvious vehicle, money, phones, I can't see this. I know others have done this, but this level of planning and deception seems beyond her resources. The second is that she was injured. If accidentally, then during an argument, maybe, or a drug overdose. Sorry for the degree of speculation, but finding a viable motive/scenario would be helpful with establishing a crime scene and narrowing the suspects.

The suitcase had been in her parents house. Her mom noticed it was missing after they returned from Canada. Perhaps it was done earlier that week but why? Especially if she was planning on being at the house all weekend, according to her brother.

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[pamelado2]

Could you remind me who this witness was who saw this and where? (Eg. Person 1, 2 or 3 or Subie/MSM/LE etc.)

I have no idea, just going off post #2.

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[Bit of hope]

Could you remind me who this witness was who saw this and where? (Eg. Person 1, 2 or 3 or Subie/MSM/LE etc.)

Yes this is still an important question. We WS don't know...I hope the family knows....

 

[Bently]

The suitcase had been in her parents house. Her mom noticed it was missing after they returned from Canada. Perhaps it was done earlier that week but why? Especially if she was planning on being at the house all weekend, according to her brother.

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And what did the suitcase have in it?



https://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/profile.php?id=112894369384841&ref=content_filter posted by admin.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Hope this is going well. This update included posts from Thread 1 and Thread 2 until this post. New info/changed info in red text. T1/T2 meaning thread numbers. VI is Subie. Post numbers may be off a little sometimes, because of modsnips (sorry for that upfront) Still not sure where to place the gas station stops in the time line, but tried to put them in where it would be logical according to the story and times we do .


I don’t know the city, does thissound logical, are those stops en route to Wendy’s?
10:30 p.m. Verified friend has spoken to her that night and he recallsher driving my mom's car. T1 # 612 VI. Is it possible to pinpoint where hesaw her?

? Debet cardused at Texaco @ N Decatur Rd

? Debet cardused at DeKalb Industrial Chevron @ Cheshire Bridge

11 p.m. Pocket Dial from Person 3, T2# 324 VI By voicemail on Metro pcs Jenna Number (also a metro pcs number) is tied to anInstagram account with references to pimping and clubs on Cambelton Rd . T1 #135 VI.

11 p.m. Debet card used at LaVista Wendy's at 1940 PiedmontRoad. Really confirmed is that Wendy'sbased on the straw wrapper in my mom's car / passenger seat pushed back. T1 #833 VI

Around 11 p.m “CheshireBridge/Lavista BP " Lavista turns into Lindbergh at that intersection. T2#484 NN Was she going to meet person 3 after all?
? Debetcard used at Chevron @ N Decatur Rd & Clairemont

? Seenwith an unidentified male passenger in her mother’s car. Per FB Help find Jenna van Gelderen. By whom, where and what time?

11:30 p.m. After that no activity, I suspectright now that both her phones went on power saving mode (meaning all syncingand tracking stops to conserve battery but can still text / call). Her Androidon metro line appears to go into power saving mode around 11:30 pm. This couldbe why her Google Timeline stops tracking at 11:30 pm on her Metro PCs phone. PostT2 #53 VI

11:30-1:30 Timeline activity off after goingdown to midtown. Family does not know if she went back to the house and if shedid on what time, with or without somebody and if and when she left again with her own car and if somebody else was withher. Post T2 #53 VI According to everyone she hadreturned to my parents place that night. T1 # 310 VI. How do they know?

11:45 p.m. In contact with her S.C. friend, must have been aconversation on the phone, because S.C. friend didn’t know where Jenna was atthat point. Prior info states the S.C.friend talked to Jenna on Saturday, so after 12 pm/midnight.

11.50 p.m. By voicemail on Metro pcs Jenna: pocket call from somebody. Number (also a metro pcs number) is tied to an Instagram account withreferences to pimping and clubs on Cambelton Rd = Person3 T1 # 135 VI.

1:30-2 a.m. Text message to S.C. friend, saying ‘laying down’. We are not sure that it was Jenna that actually send that text.

1.30 a.m. iPhone on Tmobile going into power saving modearound 1:30 am as all tracking info seems to stop then. On her iPhone, itappears she had iCloud tracking off as well as Google Time Line not enabledfrom the get go. Post T2 #53 VI

Saturday
9:30 a.m. Brother calls Jenna, phone goes tovoicemail

? p.m. Vet came to the house, can’t get in, no key, Jennanot there. Phone is dead.

10:30 a.m. Brother is at the parents’ house, Jenna is not there. Jenna’s car is not at the house, her mom’s caris.

RSBM

I am quoting the parts of the timeline regarding the witnessing of J and a passenger in her mum's car as we are discussing it. To me this part of the timeline is the most important to verify.

 

[Capebluff]

Thats a point actually, how come her Google Timeline didnt record the gas station stops?


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IIRC, Subie stated the Google Location Hx & Timeline went black around 1130pm either due to the phone being completely dead or location tracking being turned off.

If this is the reason why these stops don't show on the Google Timeline, we could safely assume the stops occurred after 1130pm.

However, it's also a possibility that Jenna isn't the one who used her debit card (therefore not physically in these locations to be tracked by Google Timeline).

I know Subie said that there was a Wendy's straw wrapper found in mom's car, but, I'm sure no one is 100% certain this straw wrapper (unless accompanied by a dated receipt), was in fact from that purchase.

 

[Shiressleuth]

IIRC, Subie stated the Google Location Hx & Timeline went black around 1130pm either due to the phone being completely dead or location tracking being turned off.

If this is the reason why these stops don't show on the Google Timeline, we could safely assume the stops occurred after 1130pm.

However, it's also a possibility that Jenna isn't the one who used her debit card (therefore not physically in these locations to be tracked by Google Timeline).

I know Subie said that there was a Wendy's straw wrapper found in mom's car, but, I'm sure no one is 100% certain this straw wrapper (unless accompanied by a dated receipt), was in fact from that purchase.

Debit card usages appear to be before 11.30 ( see section of timeline I just posted) Also, if her Tmobile phone went dead at 11.30 p.m it was ok at 2.30 a.m. to text her S.C. friend so was charged up again by then. If battery dies does timeline stop? Restart ?

 

[JazzTune]

She didn't swap cars, that's what her brother is saying. She was in her mom's car. Also, she didn't recline the seat. It was pushed back (as if someone very tall were driving). She is quite short, she wouldn't be able to drive with it that far back.

If it's NOT someone who found the car and was joyriding - then I wonder, how tall are the ex-boyfriend and the roommate?

(To put the seat as low as it would go also tells me it *could* be because the person is tall. Over 6 feet.)

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You may be correct in this case. I don't know about Jenna's driving habits.

That would not be a correct conclusion if it were about me.

Like Jenna, I'm petite and close to her height. I always move my seat back when exiting my car. Always.

Have done so for years too.

It's so much easier to move the seat back than to try to sling my purse, and lunch bag over the steering wheel while getting out.

When I get back in, I move the seat forward. It's no problem at all.

Habit. What I always do.

I'm probably the odd one, but just pointing that out...

 

[Shiressleuth]

@Subie - Are you able to say more about the witness to J using your mum's car and being seen with a male passenger? E.g. time, place, witnessed by (e.g.person1?). That does seem to be the last sighting.

 

[Bently]

RSBM

I am quoting the parts of the timeline regarding the witnessing of J and a passenger in her mum's car as we are discussing it. To me this part of the timeline is the most important to verify.

And at 11 pm eastern.. The visit to Wendy's... There are articles from Wendy's restaurant.. A straw wrapper.., in the mother's car, not her car.

Is this correct? Near her apt.

 

[flute4peace]

You may be correct in this case. I don't know about Jenna's driving habits.

That would not be a correct conclusion if it were about me.

Like Jenna, I'm petite and close to her height. I always move my seat back when exiting my car. Always.

Have done so for years too.

It's so much easier to move the seat back than to try to sling my purse, and lunch bag over the steering wheel while getting out.

When I get back in, I move the seat forward. It's no problem at all.

Habit. What I always do.

I'm probably the odd one, but just pointing that out...

I'm glad you pointed this out. I am very small also but the only time I move the seat back is when my husband will be the next one driving the vehicle. That's partly what makes these cases so difficult I think, the details are important but only as relevant to the victim specifically.

Generally speaking, we could go round and round for days disgusting things like this but unless we know what is characteristic for Jenna herself it doesn't really bring us answers. But on the other hand it is so hard not to do because we are looking for all the answers we can find.

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[Shiressleuth]

And at 11 pm eastern.. The visit to Wendy's... There are articles from Wendy's restaurant.. A straw wrapper.., in the mother's car, not her car.

Is this correct? Near her apt.

I thought that too but that is the address 1940 Piedmont not the time 19.40.

Eta. Ah. I see you have edited.

Is this correct? Do you mean the time location or which car? What are you questioning exactly?

 

[pamelado2]

You may be correct in this case. I don't know about Jenna's driving habits.

That would not be a correct conclusion if it were about me.

Like Jenna, I'm petite and close to her height. I always move my seat back when exiting my car. Always.

Have done so for years too.

It's so much easier to move the seat back than to try to sling my purse, and lunch bag over the steering wheel while getting out.

When I get back in, I move the seat forward. It's no problem at all.

Habit. What I always do.

I'm probably the odd one, but just pointing that out...

But don't forget it was also lowered, when mine is lowered a person who is shorter (my sister) can barely see over the steering wheel, she hates it. I'm 5'6" and lower it part way, my ex was 6'6" and lowered it all the way.
Also, her brother thought this was significant so I am thinking that seat position wasn't the habit for Jenna.

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[Bit of hope]

And what did the suitcase have in it?

View attachment 123521

https://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/profile.php?id=112894369384841&ref=content_filter posted by admin.

I don't understand this picture...suitcase was in the trunk......

 

[JazzTune]

I'm glad you pointed this out. I am very small also but the only time I move the seat back is when my husband will be the next one driving the vehicle. That's partly what makes these cases so difficult I think, the details are important but only as relevant to the victim specifically.

Generally speaking, we could go round and round for days disgusting things like this but unless we know what is characteristic for Jenna herself it doesn't really bring us answers. But on the other hand it is so hard not to do because we are looking for all the answers we can find.

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But don't forget it was also lowered, when mine is lowered a person who is shorter (my sister) can barely see over the steering wheel, she hates it. I'm 5'6" and lower it part way, my ex was 6'6" and lowered it all the way.
Also, her brother thought this was significant so I am thinking that seat position wasn't the habit for Jenna.

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Oh yes, you're both right. I apologize if I misled anyone, or if I wasn't very clear.

We are all different, and that's what I was trying to say. That not every petite woman leaves her seat in the same position. Most do, but there's always an oddball like me.

My seat being moved back would not be a correct indication that a much taller person had been the last one to drive my car.

That was the only point I was trying to make. Not whether Jenna's car was last driven by her or someone taller.

You're correct, flute4peace, we just don't know.

You're right too, Pamelado2 about the lowering of the seat itself. I do apologize because I had missed that in your original quote.

I never lower the height of the seat. I leave that completely alone.
I only move the seat itself back.

The fact the seat was lowered IS very compelling. Thank you for the clarification!

 

[subie_climber]

Subie, do you know if Jenna was back up near her apartment that night? I remember you saying that College Park guy suggested meeting closer to her apartment (or later Lindbergh area) and she didn't show. Yet the woman on FB says she was right there using her card at 11. Is that accurate? Just wondering if maybe she did pick him up or if there is another reason why she decided not to meet him even though she was nearby and not answer his calls.


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Yes, we talked with her local girl friend again and Jenna was at the apartment that night before heading back out to meet a guy. Thats all we know right now

I believe what happened is that girl friend left to Uber back up to her home and Jenna left to meet one of these guys. The pi is going to speak again with this girl friend again tomorrow to see if can nail down when she left Jenna exactly.

Now next part is that my parents bought Jenna a green T shirt from San Antonio on their last Vacation. Jenna had been wearing that shirt that week, and can confirm from her girlfriend that Jenna was wearing that Friday night before changing to go back out. We do not see this shirt in her stuff in the car, in her room at my parents nor from the stuff at the apartment. So I'm thinking maybe she put this back on late Friday / early Saturday morning before she disappeared

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