GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #3

[Shiressleuth]

Or she saw her park, got the tag number, parked, followed her in, looked everywhere, came out, saw the car was gone and reported to police.

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Agree Pamela - another possibility.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think we need some facts clarifying.
1, who saw Jenna last and what time and date?
2. Who saw a passenger with J in the car that night and who was the passenger?
3. What were the times, amounts and purchases at the gas stations?
4. Has anyone else gone missing with J?
5. What did J discuss in her phone conversation with her SC friend?
6. Has family obtained J's medical records?

Without more info regarding these facts, speculation will be inaccurate IMO.

Forgive me for bumping my own questions but adding to them specific ones for Atlantans-
7. Does Atlanta have public cctv for these areas and especially the areas visited by J the night she went missing?
8. If so, where can we access a map of camera locations?

Obviously the PI's and LE will have already covered these questions but, again, I have not seen any reference. Perhaps the local knowledge on here can help with this.

 

[Bit of hope]

Thinking about Jenna left her ID in her car.

Just some questions, about how things work in America/Georgia. How easy is it to get a new ID? If you have, for example, still your drivers license and you would lie about loosing your ID, would it be possible to get a new ID? If you don't have an ID in what kind of trouble would you get and what could you do to prevent that?

If you found the right papers/code in parents house would it be somehow possible to get your passport from the parents safe at the bank? Using your drivers license with parents address on it? Guess not, just to be sure.....

 

[Shiressleuth]

I agree. I've lived in Atlanta for almost 15 years, always in what's called ITP - inside the perimeter. It's too easy to believe it's not real because that's how under-the-radar it is. Atlanta is a big, spread out place and no one thinks anything of driving from one side of town to the other very often, because you're still in Atlanta.

I'm friends with an Atlantan journalist who wrote an incredible article about human trafficking in Atlanta back in 2008. Nonprofits combatting human trafficking often go into churches and organizations to tell about their work, which is where I learned about the sources of information on Atlanta as a major hub for international human trafficking - not only does it definitely happen here, but it is also a major pass-through area. Horrific things are mentioned. I know Innocence Atlanta was one organization fighting for the cause, but they don't seem to be active anymore under that name. Trying to find some good resources for facts for you all. There is a wikipedia page about it, if you want to look that up.

I had wondered when and if the Atlanta airport was going to come up. If there's any place that would have camera footage, to confirm one way or another that she'd been there, through there, at any point, that would be the place to find out. College Park, where she wasn't supposed to drive the car, is around the airport, as mentioned. There are MARTA stations (Atlanta's mass transit system) close to places mentioned in these threads, including Lindbergh, as someone else mentioned, and there is a transit line south of her parents' house. And MARTA bus lines are all over the areas on the map. It would not be far-fetched to me that whatever happened, that the airport could have been a likely destination at some point.

MARTA has cameras, too. MARTA, with all its geographical and political limitations - a story for another day - did one thing well: the southern terminus of the rail line feeds directly into the airport. No additional shuttle required, proceed to check in and security. Also - Greyhound and Amtrak are possible ways to get out of town easily, and I would think they have cameras.

And, I wanted to mention, speaking of cameras, Publix grocery stores have an amazing camera system. I went there one day to look for something I lost there, and I was able to give them the time of day and where I was, and they found me on the video within minutes. If Jenna was at Publix, there would be footage to prove or disprove it. This has to be how, in addition to the tag info not leading to finding Jenna, LE determined the sighting was not Jenna. I agree it is weird that uber girl didn't pursue finding out if it was really her missed friend, but maybe her boyfriend wouldn't have let her find out right then. Benefit of the doubt, but she does come off as rather slippery when it comes to revealing information - maybe the boyfriend is very controlling in what she can say.

I also live near Emory and frequent 2 Publix locations often, maybe the one is where the false sighting was, where I definitely keep my eyes peeled for a Jenna sighting. Really, anywhere I go these days, I wonder if I will spot her, even if it's away from the Emory area. I go on runs all over the area, too, and am often thinking of this case and Jenna as I do.

I appreciate Subie's participation with all this. My heart breaks over and over as you contribute information and answer, Subie, and when you have to read some of the really difficult-to-read possible theories members have offered. I maintain hope for Jenna's return, despite everything. I take your checkins here to mean that you must find some moral support and hope here.

I have to believe that between LE and PIs handling this case, camera footage has been reviewed and information collected there where possible. I imagine the public locations with camera footage are in places where LE check in often for needs to review footage. I think the same of phone data, info on pings, recordings also reviewed and information collected. I want to believe those who are investigating are holding information close to their chests and revealing as little as possible. It's so easy when you don't know the answers to let your imagination line up details a certain way. I know I have.

Also, I was wondering about our possible red herring, the tapestry, and had the thought that maybe Jenna believed that something valuable was hidden behind it or within that frame, but didn't make a mess finding out. Only a guess.

Wow, I guess I am a verbose new member. I've been pondering some of these thoughts for over a month.

Welcome Sonnenschein. Your camera comments are interesting. It was previously mentioned re cctv on the buses (where the car was found is a bus route IIRC) and I have also asked before about cctv. Have added some questions to my recent list that hopefully locals may be able to answer.
Ps. Perhaps your journalist friend could cover J's story for some media attention?

 

[Shiressleuth]

I have been following this for a while and decided to chime in. I find it hard to believe that the music studio directly across from where Jenna's car was found does not have surveillance footage of anything. Many of the most basic surveillance systems save months of footage at the very minimum before writing over the digital storage. Additionally, the apparent lack of helpful information from Jenna's friends seems to be suspicious.
One theory I had was if Jenna had become involved in a scenario of texting two different men who did not know eachother. Is it possible one of these guys showed up looking for her because she was not responding and found her with another man at the house?

I hope she is found safely sometime soon.

Your theory of a love rival is interesting especially as a passenger was seen with J in the car. Is that what you are basing it on?
(See post 1 on this thread - Jenna was seen driving her mother's red mazda with an unidentified male passenger)

 

[Bit of hope]

Per VI, T2 # 920 The subpoenas for both phones should be arriving anyday now which will include last ping locations. Any news?

 

[Bit of hope]

I have not been able to confirm the keys were found in the vehicle. Can you tell me where I can find that info? I might have missed it.

It might be insignificant either way, but every little detail counts!

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Correct, if her keys were found in the car is not confirmed. As far as I know this is the last information I could find (T1 and T2) and I don't believe it was discussed further in T3

• About questions what was or was not in her car: Per VI T2 #976: Purse / day bag yes found in car. We askedabout the keys yesterday and the Chief said he needed to check again. Per VI T2# 980: Both < <housekeys parents and car-keys> she had them on a lanyard. Per VI, T2 #982
  
• Was lanyard found in thecar?
  

 

[Shiressleuth]

<modsnip> Why would Jenna not drive her home and let her take an uber with a stranger?

I guess a similar reason as to why friend couldn't rush around a store looking for J ? Subie has hopefully asked her about both situations and if we haven't been told, it must be for a reason, I am sure.

 

[believe09]

Thanks shiressleuth I really feel the housing situation is important to thoroughly investigate. I think there's a good chance that Jenna was sort of living out of her suitcase/vehicle for a little bit prior to house sitting, and perhaps she didn't want her family to know that, and that's why she has been a bit cagey about her living situation.

This has me thinking. Where was Jenna's mail being received?

 

[Shiressleuth]

This has me thinking. Where was Jenna's mail being received?

Well her bank statements and phone bills went to the parents house I believe but not sure about her driving licence, id address, passport address, doctor and counsellor's address however. Perhaps she has a p.o.box number as well?
Good question.

 

[believe09]

This is what has bothered me. I work at Emory (literally a block from her parents house) and have seen no flyers. The media hasn't covered this at all that I've seen. The only way I knew about this case was because the flyer from Nextdoor was shared on a Facebook group I belong to.

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I want to jump on this-I know some of our locals have indicated that the areas associated with Jenna's travels on 8/18 don't appear to be saturated with flyers, especially near her home. If that is the case, it may be a great opportunity to get some support on the FB page and start hanging flyers. It is amazing what you can spark when someone sees a flyer and says "Wait I saw that woman xyz..." Every little thing to add to the timeline is so important.

The GoFund Me, which links through the FB page, indicated that Jenna disappeared from her parents house the early morning hours of 8/19. I am trying to figure out the siting in Mom's car with the passenger. IIRC Subie indicated that a witness knew Jenna was in her mother's car at some point, but I wasn't sure of the origin of the siting of the passenger.

(Hmm, cant get the snip to post-please reference bit of hope timeline of Jenna's movements between 10PM and 1130PM on 8/18)

 

[Bit of hope]

I want to jump on this-I know some of our locals have indicated that the areas associated with Jenna's travels on 8/18 don't appear to be saturated with flyers, especially near her home. If that is the case, it may be a great opportunity to get some support on the FB page and start hanging flyers. It is amazing what you can spark when someone sees a flyer and says "Wait I saw that woman xyz..." Every little thing to add to the timeline is so important.

The GoFund Me, which links through the FB page, indicated that Jenna disappeared from her parents house the early morning hours of 8/19. I am trying to figure out the siting in Mom's car with the passenger. IIRC Subie indicated that a witness knew Jenna was in her mother's car at some point, but I wasn't sure of the origin of the siting of the passenger.

(Hmm, cant get the snip to post-please reference bit of hope timeline of Jenna's movements between 10PM and 1130PM on 8/18)

Subie/VI said he put up flyers 'just the other day" but they keep getting removed. Per VI #161

 

[WorkerBee]

Subie/VI said he put up flyers 'just the other day" but they keep getting removed. Per VI #161

Bit of Hope,
Your time, energy, and compassion for Jenna and her family does not go unnoticed. Thank you for all your hard work day after day!


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[Bit of hope]

Bit of Hope,
Your time, energy, and compassion for Jenna and her family does not go unnoticed. Thank you for all your hard work day after day!


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This applies to a lot of members in this thread and is nothing compared to what Subie has to go through, but thanks, appreciated. Like all others I wish so hard that Jenna is found.

 

[BlkMtnGirl]

[Respectfully snipped for focus.]

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=132654&page=1

Wow. Thanks, WorkerBee, for the link. If anyone "scrolled and rolled" past this article on trafficking, I urge you to please read it. There are many things that sadly, sound so familiar in this case. I have not been focusing on the trafficking angle until now, but this article has given me pause. My thoughts are in red:

- "[The pimp] so impressed Rachel that she decided to "choose up" from her current pimp and go to Atlanta with [him]. In accordance with pimp custom, [the pimp] called the other pimp to "serve" him notice that he wanted to take one of his women.

The pimp consented, so next it was up to Rachel to "buy in" with [the new pimp], or give him enough money to show she could be a good earner. So Rachel gave Fresh all the cash she had on her and cashed in her bus ticket. "

The stolen money from the pet store? This corresponds with timeframe of "new boyfriend?"

- "the relationship between pimp and prostitute is about one thing: "It has to be understood that this is strictly about the money. [snip] This is not about being a girlfriend and a boyfriend."

The "breakup" might be because her "boyfriend" didn't want to have that kind of relationship? Sounds like Jenna may have gotten confused as to what kind of relationship they had.

- "When questioned alone, all three [of the women] said they were free to leave [the pimp] at any time, but chose to stay of their own accord.

I keep hearing the words of the SAR expert who chimed in saying that it sounded like Jenna may have been a willing participant in her disappearance.

- "As it turned out, Rachel never showed up again. [The pimp] never saw her again, and, [snip] [the pimp] seemed unconcerned. "She could not show. She could not produce," he said."

So, even if this were a case of trafficking, the "boyfriend" may or may not have had anything to do with her disappearance, and he may or may not even care. Ditto for the "friends."

I have been not wanting to "go there" with this because I don't want to hurt Subie and his family anymore than they are already hurting. Thank goodness Jenna has a loving family who is searching for her and loves her unconditionally, regardless of how and why she has disappeared. So many people do not have family who care. You got this!!

ETA: Oh, and the article states that it is a misdemeanor for the pimp, and a felony for the women. That is horrible!! Could explain the lack of forthcoming girlfriends.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I am trying to figure out the siting in Mom's car with the passenger. IIRC Subie indicated that a witness knew Jenna was in her mother's car at some point, but I wasn't sure of the origin of the siting of the passenger.

(Hmm, cant get the snip to post-please reference bit of hope timeline of Jenna's movements between 10PM and 1130PM on 8/18)

RSBM
FYI you can find the origin in BoH timeline at around 1130pm. It is on the missing persons flyer linked in the timeline. However, I cannot see it anymore in the current flyer so it has recently been removed. Perhaps Subie can confirm this fact as still being correct or not.

 

[noseynellie]

I wish I lived in a place where any time a young woman goes missing, the idea she could be a victim of sex trafficking is so preposterous that it's not even considered. It must be nice.



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[BlkMtnGirl]

About the tapestry...
The actual description should be "vintage embroidered and appliqued table linen." I'm okay with calling it a tapestry, but if anyone is searching ebay and such, it would not be described as a "tapestry."

 

[Shiressleuth]

Wow. Thanks, WorkerBee, for the link. If anyone "scrolled and rolled" past this article on trafficking, I urge you to please read it.

I have been not wanting to "go there" with this because I don't want to hurt Subie and his family anymore than they are already hurting. Thank goodness Jenna has a loving family who is searching for her and loves her unconditionally, regardless of how and why she has disappeared. So many people do not have family who care. You got this!!

ETA: Oh, and the article states that it is a misdemeanor for the pimp, and a felony for the women. That is horrible!! Could explain the lack of forthcoming girlfriends.

SBM
Regarding rumours of prostitution, Subie and family have strongly denied this both on this site and via MSM. Maybe you shouldn't go there IMO.

If posters actually look at post 1 on this thread, the last MSM item explains where family state rumours have actually harmed the search efforts.

 

[Shiressleuth]

About the tapestry...
The actual description should be "vintage embroidered and appliqued table linen." I'm okay with calling it a tapestry, but if anyone is searching ebay and such, it would not be described as a "tapestry."

Egyptian khasamiya is probably the official term but we have got used to it being referred to as "tapestry","quilt" "buffet cover" and even "picture" in early reports. :thinking: Quilt I like for brevity.