These are very valid points and unfortunately very young adults (18-20) and mentally disabled adults (autism spectrum, adhd, etc) do not want to go to their families or the police for help. Sometimes it is a fear of retaliation, or fear for the family's safety, or a belief they can handle it on their own. Other times they are emotionally close to the abusers or feel like they finally fit into a group and don't want to lose their new found friends. There is a misplaced loyalty in which they will not "rat" on others which explains why the friends etc are not forthcoming with much information.
GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #3
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These are very valid points and unfortunately very young adults (18-20) and mentally disabled adults (autism spectrum, adhd, etc) do not want to go to their families or the police for help. Sometimes it is a fear of retaliation, or fear for the family's safety, or a belief they can handle it on their own. Other times they are emotionally close to the abusers or feel like they finally fit into a group and don't want to lose their new found friends. There is a misplaced loyalty in which they will not "rat" on others which explains why the friends etc are not forthcoming with much information.
noseynellie
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It must be so frustrating for Subie and his family to wait week after week for LE to tell them something new. It sounds like he has gathered more information on his own (like the recording) and yet there is seemingly no action.
Maybe it's not as easy as identifying a "ring" because it could not look like one on the surface.
In that "Diamond Kitties" case here, the judge threw out the trafficking charges because she couldn't discern whether it was voluntary or not for the women involved. A grand jury ended up indicting the suspect on those charges. http://www.11alive.com/mobile/artic...t-on-all-charges-judge-dismissed/85-425300901
It sounds like from the beginning, local LE responded as if she went missing on her own accord (not processing the house or mom's car until weeks later, not following up on that phone call from her friend that was on the call log). They made a claim that she was on Backpage without any factual evidence. Who does that to the distraught parents of a missing woman? It wasn't until her car was found with her ID that they posted her missing photo to their FB page.
This is just my opinion as an outsider, but it seems like they wasted time. Maybe I should have more faith in them to do the right thing now - they are cops, after all - but I'm skeptical. JMO. This is the same police department that had an officer who allegedly doubled as a hitman for the Gangster Disciples. https://www.google.com/amp/www.myaj...es-crime-ring/tm6rZv48QoXoEdaakk1I2I/amp.html
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Regarding the last seen- actual last seen is different from last contact. Last verified contact is different from last unverified contact. Contact via electronic or cellular device does not connect with an individual necessarily, it is contact with a computer or device . Why do we not know with certainty who last physically laid eyes on Jenna?
If we show up on site to search for a missing person, that is the first and most important piece of information we need to have because that is where we start to try to determine a route of travel.
I do not understand why we can not get that essential piece of information nailed down in Jenna's case.
I really, really hope LE and the PI's working on her case know this with absolute certainty, and we're just confused due to misspeaks or misreporting.
If we show up on site to search for a missing person, that is the first and most important piece of information we need to have because that is where we start to try to determine a route of travel.
I do not understand why we can not get that essential piece of information nailed down in Jenna's case.
I really, really hope LE and the PI's working on her case know this with absolute certainty, and we're just confused due to misspeaks or misreporting.
Shiressleuth
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Lots of people on here are saying it does look like a ring though. If this is the case and it is not being investigated properly, then Subie and the family must raise this with their representative as has been suggested a couple of times on here. Put in an official complaint, whatever it takes. JMO.
Stanly
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I think that at the beginning, due to various sources and innacuracies, we were given a conpletely different picture/version of events. If im right in saying this, at the start we were led to believe Jenna had no job, stole money, no respect for her family, no friends, a secret double life and it was originally quoted that her brother said she was into prostitution (later denied by the brother) so im assuming LE were given the same info and probably assumed it was a simple case of her voluntarily having a break away from family...however, later down the line when her friends speak up and actually she has loads and good genuine friends start saying its unusual she hasnt been in touch, we then hear she has autism, which actually started as her being 'a bit vulnerable' then 'mild autism' and then 'high functioning autism' plus the public putting pressure on LE, i think they then realised there was an issue. I dont know statistics but im sure there are a lot of missing people in Atlanta and with no sign of forced entry do you think it would be a priority for them? Especially when they are hearing that family said she was into prostitution (later denied i add again) and that the family didnt even know where she lived.
Whatever is happening now i guess we just have to wait and see. We get rare answers from our VI (for whatever reason it doesnt matter) and nothing from LE. What can we do? Im hoping (still) LE are gathering evidence quietly.
Oriah's post a few hours earlier was great! Back to the beginning. Whether she was into trafficking, gone into hiding and pregnant, been harmed and (sorry!) left somewhere, either way im betting there are/were vital clues at the parents house.
I feel so helpless and i hope this all comes to an end soon.
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Whatever is happening now i guess we just have to wait and see. We get rare answers from our VI (for whatever reason it doesnt matter) and nothing from LE. What can we do? Im hoping (still) LE are gathering evidence quietly.
Oriah's post a few hours earlier was great! Back to the beginning. Whether she was into trafficking, gone into hiding and pregnant, been harmed and (sorry!) left somewhere, either way im betting there are/were vital clues at the parents house.
I feel so helpless and i hope this all comes to an end soon.
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jnelsoninjax
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I have been following this case from before it came here (subie posted about it on another forum) and I have a few things that I want to add.
I have a really good friend who has Asperger's. She is married and has two kids, one of whom has been diagnosed on the autism spectrum (extreme side, non verbal, zero social skills, etc.), The one thing that I have noticed about her since I have been living with her for about 3 years now is that she lacks impulse control and doesn't catch on social cues, etc, but her biggest issue is that she lies about everything. It is almost as if she doesn't seem to realize that she is lying (or if she does, she thinks its okay to do). She has a real problem with money, if she has any she feels that she has to spend it, she can not save money. She has been working as a cashier for a year now and since she has been working her impulse control with money has gotten worse. She bought an XBox 360, never played it and eventually sold it to a pawn shop. Her son gets disability from social security each month, and since he's a minor, she is the payee which is a bad idea, she manages to pay the rent each month from his money, and anything that is left she blows on frivolous things for herself or her daughter, rather than using it for the son whom its is intended. She has never learned how to drive, so she is dependent on friends/family etc. to get her around town. She also has a few 'friends' (female) who only want to hang with her when she has money or food stamps (which she uses on them), and when myself or her husband try to point this out to her she 'shuts down' and storms off to her room. So in this situation with Jenna being Asperger's I can totally understand how she might have been molded or fooled into doing something, lets say less than legal, for her 'friends', and from what I have been reading here and the excellent timeline that has been put together, I can see a few scenarios that could have happened:
1) J is housesitting for the weekend, only has to worry about the cat whom she loves, otherwise she has a very nice house that is in a quiet neighborhood to herself. One of her 'friends' calls/texts/FB messages, etc her and 'suggests' that they invite a few other 'friends' over and have a party (this was mentioned earlier that the house showed signs of a party). Obviously not many came over, otherwise the neighbors would have reported that to LE or the family. So in the course of this little get together the buffet cover frame gets hit and either cracks or breaks in the corner. Now perhaps J had someone take it out of the frame, or someone else did it on there own, that is really not important, imho. Also while this little get together is happening a 'friend' of J's says to her that he/she knows about a private party that is going on and it is really cool, etc.and it is worded in such a method that she wants to go to it (one question I have that I don't recall being asked: did Jenna drink alcohol?) I understand that the family is Jewish, but must admit not knowing much about the religion, is Alcohol allowed in Judaism? I only ask because other religions such as the Mormon's do not allow alcohol.
At this private party something happened to Jenna, maybe some slipped her a roofie, or GBH (date rape drug) and then took advantage of her. Now she is ashamed or too embarrassed to come home, so she is hiding.
2) Same type of theory as above (party at house) but perhaps her 'friends' hooked her up with someone who is in the sex trade businesses, as lots have pointed out Atlanta seems to be a hot spot for this type of thing. Allot here have been showing how she has been showing signs of being groomed, and with her disorder, I can see that this would be fairly easy to do, and also if someone came into the pet store she worked at on a regular bases, it most likely would not take much to pick up on the fact that she has a disorder. I know myself that I frequent a store enough that I have developed a re-pore with allot of the workers and I could tell you if any of them had ADD/ADHD, autism, etc with a fair amount of success (I have not done that, just pointing out that it would be easy). So my third theory:
3)An unknown person (I will call them X) happens across her at the pet store, notices that she is very pretty and friendly. X comes into the store frequently when Jenna was working and starts talking to her, realizes that Jenna has a mental disorder, and decides to take advantage of this. So over the course of a few months X comes into the store more and more and maybe brings another person along, X and Y start talking to her, and perhaps Jenna makes a comment about she doesn't like her boss, or something to that effect, (maybe she needs housing as well?) and X and Y start tag teaming her (I have noticed that with my friend if me and her daughter or someone else are telling her something, she is more likely to listen) and they mention that they (or someone they know) needs money or has an apartment she could lease and they tell her 'if you take a few dollars out of your drawer, they are not going to notice...' so she starts to do that, and perhaps X comes back and says 'You doing good, but (the apartment, etc) needs just a bit more,and they convince her to take more cash maybe saying 'with your disability, you won't get arrested, etc." really laying it on so she feels that she really needs to help this person out. So, as we know, she did get caught stealing from her employer, and they did indeed prosecute her. So fast forward, she has been asked to move out of mom and dad's place and she has been couch surfing for a time, then she manages to get an apartment but never tells anyone about it (strange, but perhaps she was told not to?) Then Mom calls her and tells her that they are going to Canada to watch the eclipse and that her (Jenna) cat needs medication and can you please come over and watch the house while we are gone, and let the vet tech in to give you cat medicine. Jenna jumped at that, because she loves the cat and sleeping in her bed again was probably a wonderful idea to her. So we know from the timeline that she was over the night before the tech was due to come over, and she had some type of party (again, not very many people over) but lets say X and Y are there and at this point they have gotten money from her, so the next step is to get her, so they invite her to a private party, she goes with them and then they drug her and she then becomes a piece of property that is sold and traded for sexual purposes.
I have a really good friend who has Asperger's. She is married and has two kids, one of whom has been diagnosed on the autism spectrum (extreme side, non verbal, zero social skills, etc.), The one thing that I have noticed about her since I have been living with her for about 3 years now is that she lacks impulse control and doesn't catch on social cues, etc, but her biggest issue is that she lies about everything. It is almost as if she doesn't seem to realize that she is lying (or if she does, she thinks its okay to do). She has a real problem with money, if she has any she feels that she has to spend it, she can not save money. She has been working as a cashier for a year now and since she has been working her impulse control with money has gotten worse. She bought an XBox 360, never played it and eventually sold it to a pawn shop. Her son gets disability from social security each month, and since he's a minor, she is the payee which is a bad idea, she manages to pay the rent each month from his money, and anything that is left she blows on frivolous things for herself or her daughter, rather than using it for the son whom its is intended. She has never learned how to drive, so she is dependent on friends/family etc. to get her around town. She also has a few 'friends' (female) who only want to hang with her when she has money or food stamps (which she uses on them), and when myself or her husband try to point this out to her she 'shuts down' and storms off to her room. So in this situation with Jenna being Asperger's I can totally understand how she might have been molded or fooled into doing something, lets say less than legal, for her 'friends', and from what I have been reading here and the excellent timeline that has been put together, I can see a few scenarios that could have happened:
1) J is housesitting for the weekend, only has to worry about the cat whom she loves, otherwise she has a very nice house that is in a quiet neighborhood to herself. One of her 'friends' calls/texts/FB messages, etc her and 'suggests' that they invite a few other 'friends' over and have a party (this was mentioned earlier that the house showed signs of a party). Obviously not many came over, otherwise the neighbors would have reported that to LE or the family. So in the course of this little get together the buffet cover frame gets hit and either cracks or breaks in the corner. Now perhaps J had someone take it out of the frame, or someone else did it on there own, that is really not important, imho. Also while this little get together is happening a 'friend' of J's says to her that he/she knows about a private party that is going on and it is really cool, etc.and it is worded in such a method that she wants to go to it (one question I have that I don't recall being asked: did Jenna drink alcohol?) I understand that the family is Jewish, but must admit not knowing much about the religion, is Alcohol allowed in Judaism? I only ask because other religions such as the Mormon's do not allow alcohol.
At this private party something happened to Jenna, maybe some slipped her a roofie, or GBH (date rape drug) and then took advantage of her. Now she is ashamed or too embarrassed to come home, so she is hiding.
2) Same type of theory as above (party at house) but perhaps her 'friends' hooked her up with someone who is in the sex trade businesses, as lots have pointed out Atlanta seems to be a hot spot for this type of thing. Allot here have been showing how she has been showing signs of being groomed, and with her disorder, I can see that this would be fairly easy to do, and also if someone came into the pet store she worked at on a regular bases, it most likely would not take much to pick up on the fact that she has a disorder. I know myself that I frequent a store enough that I have developed a re-pore with allot of the workers and I could tell you if any of them had ADD/ADHD, autism, etc with a fair amount of success (I have not done that, just pointing out that it would be easy). So my third theory:
3)An unknown person (I will call them X) happens across her at the pet store, notices that she is very pretty and friendly. X comes into the store frequently when Jenna was working and starts talking to her, realizes that Jenna has a mental disorder, and decides to take advantage of this. So over the course of a few months X comes into the store more and more and maybe brings another person along, X and Y start talking to her, and perhaps Jenna makes a comment about she doesn't like her boss, or something to that effect, (maybe she needs housing as well?) and X and Y start tag teaming her (I have noticed that with my friend if me and her daughter or someone else are telling her something, she is more likely to listen) and they mention that they (or someone they know) needs money or has an apartment she could lease and they tell her 'if you take a few dollars out of your drawer, they are not going to notice...' so she starts to do that, and perhaps X comes back and says 'You doing good, but (the apartment, etc) needs just a bit more,and they convince her to take more cash maybe saying 'with your disability, you won't get arrested, etc." really laying it on so she feels that she really needs to help this person out. So, as we know, she did get caught stealing from her employer, and they did indeed prosecute her. So fast forward, she has been asked to move out of mom and dad's place and she has been couch surfing for a time, then she manages to get an apartment but never tells anyone about it (strange, but perhaps she was told not to?) Then Mom calls her and tells her that they are going to Canada to watch the eclipse and that her (Jenna) cat needs medication and can you please come over and watch the house while we are gone, and let the vet tech in to give you cat medicine. Jenna jumped at that, because she loves the cat and sleeping in her bed again was probably a wonderful idea to her. So we know from the timeline that she was over the night before the tech was due to come over, and she had some type of party (again, not very many people over) but lets say X and Y are there and at this point they have gotten money from her, so the next step is to get her, so they invite her to a private party, she goes with them and then they drug her and she then becomes a piece of property that is sold and traded for sexual purposes.
Shiressleuth
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Welcome jnelsoninjax. TY for your detailed theory. I would just like to ask
1. Why didn't the extortion of money come out in the court case?
2. I have known people like your friend all my life who are like that with money and would rather spend it on themselves. And they don't have aspergers or autism, just selfishness.
3. Why haven't LE or the PI or family done anything regarding this e.g. checking out the W.U. payments?
4. Why do you suspect Jenna's friends are taking advantage? Are your friends acquaintances like that with your friend who has Aspergers?- I.e. effectively stealing from her?
Hope you don't mind the questions.
1. Why didn't the extortion of money come out in the court case?
2. I have known people like your friend all my life who are like that with money and would rather spend it on themselves. And they don't have aspergers or autism, just selfishness.
3. Why haven't LE or the PI or family done anything regarding this e.g. checking out the W.U. payments?
4. Why do you suspect Jenna's friends are taking advantage? Are your friends acquaintances like that with your friend who has Aspergers?- I.e. effectively stealing from her?
Hope you don't mind the questions.
Eileen730
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if we are talking Aspergers they dont usually ever leave home.
jnelsoninjax
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1. Good question, but perhaps it was never brought up? (Or I could be completely off base with this theory)
2. I thought that was the case at first, but it recently came to light that she was Asperger's, and where that does not explain or excuse it totally it does allow us to understand her better.
3. I can not speak for the OP but I would imagine that they have done some checking into, but even as the OP has stated LE has been slow in releasing info to them.
4. I do not know Jenna, so I can not say that her friends were/are taking advantage of her, I can only speak from what I have seen from my friend. To answer the second part of the question, yes, a month ago, they convinced her to get a payday loan (~$200), she went to Walmart and bought a $70 TV and had ~$20 cash left on her person, when asked where did the rest of the money she got go, she shut down and refused to talk except to say that her she did not give her friend any money (which I find very hard to believe because one of her friends drives a taxi for a living)
What I was attempting to point out was that a person, like Jenna, who has a mental disorder can more easily be taken advantage of because of A) they want to fit in and feel 'normal' and B) they don't realize that they are being taken advantage of. The reason I was using the 'friends' was to say that they may or may not be true friends, based on my observation of my friend.
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Hi...I totally missed that Jenna had Asperger....never saw or heard of this...where do you get this from?
Stanly
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One discrepency, the get together was on the Thurs 17th not the night she disappeared. Subie saw her on the Friday morning and spoke to her Fri afternoon and a verified friend spoke to her Fri night. It was between then and the morning (when Subie came by) that she had gone.
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jnelsoninjax
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T2 # 15 VI. Jenna is in the autism spectrum; has a form of high-functioning autism.
I took this to mean Asperger's, it is the only autism spectrum that I know of that is considered high functioning.
https://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/mental-health-aspergers-syndrome
jnelsoninjax
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You know, I missed that! But the same scenario could be applied, i.e. 'friend' convinces her to go somewhere. What day was party at the private club? I don't recall when it was.
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TY # 13<Jenna> was only diagnosed December 2016. I don't have the full history,but I know my parents tried for years to have tests run, but they always saidthere 'wasnt an apparent issue. It did affect her social life and she tendedto latch on to people that were overly nice to her and she did have a fewissues years back where roomates had used her a lot for rides or buying alcoholbut never did anything in return for her. She didn't think like a normal 25year old would in a situation that could put her in harm
Do you think this sounds like Asperger....going to leave it like this...no opinion.....no theories.....
Stanly
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I understand autism can vary dramatically from person to person as per a few members posts relating to friends/relatives with autism. To get a bigger picture of Jennas character it would be useful to know how it affected her personally. Nobody can relate to how it affected her, its different for each sufferer. I recall she was only diagnosed in December last year so im assuming it was not a severe degree of autism as it is usually noticed during the first 3 years of childhood.
I also see that with high functioning autism people generally can live independently etc etc... when i researched it before i read that people with high functioning autism find it hard to lie. So im guessing that the fact the family suspected she was lying and hiding stuff which led to them having a chat and telling Jenna it was best to move out, sge couldn't have been good at lying. I cant think of anything she has lied about? She had a 2nd phone that her parents didnt know about (though the paperwork was at her parents house) so that was kept to herself and she didnt tell them where she was living.
When i was 25, had my parents kept my passport, had access to my phone and bank details and sat me down for a 'chat' i think i would hide things too.
That is no disrespect to her family and you can call me unfair but i really cant see what the issue is with her lifestyle (from what we have been told, the facts only and not speculation from members). The ONLY way it would matter is if her autism severely affected her lifestyle that bad, but it couldnt have done if she was asked to move out.
All MO
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I also see that with high functioning autism people generally can live independently etc etc... when i researched it before i read that people with high functioning autism find it hard to lie. So im guessing that the fact the family suspected she was lying and hiding stuff which led to them having a chat and telling Jenna it was best to move out, sge couldn't have been good at lying. I cant think of anything she has lied about? She had a 2nd phone that her parents didnt know about (though the paperwork was at her parents house) so that was kept to herself and she didnt tell them where she was living.
When i was 25, had my parents kept my passport, had access to my phone and bank details and sat me down for a 'chat' i think i would hide things too.
That is no disrespect to her family and you can call me unfair but i really cant see what the issue is with her lifestyle (from what we have been told, the facts only and not speculation from members). The ONLY way it would matter is if her autism severely affected her lifestyle that bad, but it couldnt have done if she was asked to move out.
All MO
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Stanly
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Bit of hope
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As far as we know (by subie/VI) there was a little get together on Thursday night at her parents house. Subie knows a few people who joint this get together (we don't know)....but still not everybody is accounted for if I recall this right....open question....the house was in disarray...by Subie the bedroom(s) where not cleaned up....Open question for Subie....Does he know by now who was at this get together...where there still persons in parents house when he came to their house?
jnelsoninjax
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Someone mentioned a location that her Google timeline put her at was a club that had a private party going on.
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Do you mean the Opera club....I really don't know what you mean. (your posts are absolutely of value, don't get me wrong)
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