GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #3

[pattysleuth]

I’ve been quiet for awhile just because there hasn’t been much I could contribute. I still have no more than I did a month ago.
I still feel they should check out the vet tech; I’m not saying he is a POI, but just to hear his story.
I also still feel that the framed “tapestry/quilt/mosaic” was either damaged by J and she took it out to try and have it repaired before someone noticed; hence the frame returned to the wall. OR, someone was there to harm J and some DNA ended up on the cloth piece. The frame and glass are easily cleaned; cloth, not so much. So it was taken. Which if this was the case, leads me to believe it may be someone the family knew. Someone to care enough to return the frame to a hanging position or to delay the brother/family in noticing.

I agree, i think it was someone that the family knew also. What keeps bothering me is this happened when the family was out of the country. Either Jenna was convinced to leave with someone that she knew that would take care of her expenses or put her to wotk under the table ( cash), or someone that knew Jenna close enough to know that her family was out of town. Ive seen it happen before where a person hurts themselves or disappears when the family is away. This way it is not discovered right away. I believe Jenna left her parents house on her own since the house was locked and the picture was placed back on the wall. Jenna had clothes and belongings in her car so she may have had extra shoes/ toiletrees there.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I agree, i think it was someone that the family knew also. What keeps bothering me is this happened when the family was out of the country. Either Jenna was convinced to leave with someone that she knew that would take care of her expenses or put her to wotk under the table ( cash), or someone that knew Jenna close enough to know that her family was out of town. Ive seen it happen before where a person hurts themselves or disappears when the family is away. This way it is not discovered right away. I believe Jenna left her parents house on her own since the house was locked and the picture was placed back on the wall. Jenna had clothes and belongings in her car so she may have had extra shoes/ toiletrees there.

But she took none of her stuff with her at all except phones, which are now dead. Her suitcase, shoes and belongings including card and id were left with her car. The only thing missing with her is the green San Antonio t-shirt.

 

[pattysleuth]

But she took none of her stuff with her at all except phones, which are now dead. Her suitcase, shoes and belongings including card and id were left with her car. The only thing missing with her is the green San Antonio t-shirt.

I think that it was either leaving on her own or someone that knew her family was out of town ( maybe Jenna told them) and took off with her either willingly or unwillingly. Its just a big coincidence that this happened when her family was out of town.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think that it was either leaving on her own or someone that knew her family was out of town ( maybe Jenna told them) and took off with her either willingly or unwillingly. Its just a big coincidence that this happened when her family was out of town.

I do agree with you on that but just can't work out why she wouldn't need her stuff. That is what makes me doubt it was voluntary. Nobody has said or can tell whether any clothes are missing with her except her green T. There has been no apparent searches conducted at either her apartment or her parents property. So why haven't LE searched either property? What evidence do they have that would preclude searches? It doesn't add up somewhere, that's for sure. JMO.

 

[BlkMtnGirl]

I do agree with you on that but just can't work out why she wouldn't need her stuff. That is what makes me doubt it was voluntary. Nobody has said or can tell whether any clothes are missing with her except her green T. There has been no apparent searches conducted at either her apartment or her parents property. So why haven't LE searched either property? What evidence do they have that would preclude searches? It doesn't add up somewhere, that's for sure. JMO.

According to Bit of Hope's timeline, LE finally searched her apartment. (Thread #1, post #391). AFAIK, we never heard for sure about searching her parents' property, but I feel certain they did.

 

[Shiressleuth]

According to Bit of Hope's timeline, LE finally searched her apartment. (Thread #1, post #391). AFAIK, we never heard for sure about searching her parents' property, but I feel certain they did.

I thought they just got her belongings, not a full scale forensic search.

 

[noseynellie]

I think that it was either leaving on her own or someone that knew her family was out of town ( maybe Jenna told them) and took off with her either willingly or unwillingly. Its just a big coincidence that this happened when her family was out of town.

Regarding the significance of parents being gone, I wondered the exact same thing. However, a search might've been delayed longer had she disappeared while staying at her apartment. In this case, she volunteered to stay at their house where she would be seen twice a day by her brother and a vet tech who needed access to the home.

So I'm thinking it wasn't her that saw it as an opportunity to leave discreetly. Rather, I could see the possibility of someone else seeing it that way, maybe someone who didn't know the specifics of the cat arrangements.

Are you thinking a theory of leaving on her own but then something bad happened or willingly left with intention not to return? I'm having a tough time with the idea that she planned not to come back, for several reasons, but curious about any thoughts on this.



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[Shiressleuth]

According to Bit of Hope's timeline, LE finally searched her apartment. (Thread #1, post #391). AFAIK, we never heard for sure about searching her parents' property, but I feel certain they did.

I thought they just got her belongings, not a full scale forensic search.

According to that post they searched and got her things back on the 30th, this was 12 days after J's disappearance. So why are family asking if J had a bed at the apartment? If police searched, why not ask them? Surely they will know if J had a bed there?

 

[pattysleuth]

Regarding the significance of parents being gone, I wondered the exact same thing. However, a search might've been delayed longer had she disappeared while staying at her apartment. In this case, she volunteered to stay at their house where she would be seen twice a day by her brother and a vet tech who needed access to the home.

So I'm thinking it wasn't her that saw it as an opportunity to leave discreetly. Rather, I could see the possibility of someone else seeing it that way, maybe someone who didn't know the specifics of the cat arrangements.

Are you thinking a theory of leaving on her own but then something bad happened or willingly left with intention not to return? I'm having a tough time with the idea that she planned not to come back, for several reasons, but curious about any thoughts on this.

If she shared an apartment with a friend, they would be there, since she was housesitting, she had access to the house without a roommate. My theory is she could come/go without anyone being there. If she shared the info that she was house sitting while her parents were in Canada with the wrong person they could have taken this as an opportunity to grab her, convince her to go away with them- all expenses paid etc. Im not sure how the family knows that she didn't have other shoes, clothes in either her apartment or car? Unless they did an inventory of every item she owned before amd after the disappearance. Girls her age buy clothes frequently, borrow, swap from friends etc. and she had moved out of the house months before this happened. I believe there was a thread that said that she kept clothes in her car? I still go back to her original friends and contacts within the last week. Someone knows what happened or where she is right now. The get together on a Thursday night is odd, why not Friday or Saturday?

 

[Capebluff]

According to that post they searched and got her things back on the 30th, this was 12 days after J's disappearance. So why are family asking if J had a bed at the apartment? If police searched, why not ask them? Surely they will know if J had a bed there?

I think they’re asking because they did not see any bed or sheets, etc., when it was searched. It wasn’t until later that they somehow discovered that she DID have a bedroom there & something leads them to believe she also had a bed, etc. If she DID, (which is why they’re asking friends to share what they know) they need to know that info as it would be critical to the investigation. However, it’s my belief that it’s a bit late to follow leads pertaining to such information as the bedding & bed itself would be long gone as too much time has passed.

 

[Greater Than]

Saw this article posted on this suspect's trial thread and thought I'd share it here since there has been discussion regarding Jenna's Google timeline.

In a strongly worded three-page ruling issued Thursday, state Supreme Court Justice Andrew Ceresia determined prosecutors for District Attorney Joel Abelove "failed to meet their burden of demonstrating that the science underlying Google location services has gained general acceptance in the in the relevant scientific community."

http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Google-evidence-tossed-from-Troy-suitcase-murder-12311986.php

Of course this doesn't necessarily mean the information is inaccurate, but apparently it is inadmissible evidence.

 

[noseynellie]

If she shared an apartment with a friend, they would be there, since she was housesitting, she had access to the house without a roommate. My theory is she could come/go without anyone being there. If she shared the info that she was house sitting while her parents were in Canada with the wrong person they could have taken this as an opportunity to grab her, convince her to go away with them- all expenses paid etc. Im not sure how the family knows that she didn't have other shoes, clothes in either her apartment or car? Unless they did an inventory of every item she owned before amd after the disappearance. Girls her age buy clothes frequently, borrow, swap from friends etc. and she had moved out of the house months before this happened. I believe there was a thread that said that she kept clothes in her car? I still go back to her original friends and contacts within the last week. Someone knows what happened or where she is right now. The get together on a Thursday night is odd, why not Friday or Saturday?

OK, I see what you're saying. Her roommate doesn't strike me as the type who would care to assist LE with a disappearance, or anything else, regardless of circumstances, jmo.

However, I could definitely see the parents being gone as a benefit to someone else who thought there would be no witnesses and a report to police would be delayed.

I remember the clothes-swapping days well but would she leave make up and toiletries? That stuff is unique to the person. And what's the motive for leaving it? She would have to think her parents would worry to find her missing yet personal items left behind. Would she intentionally want them to endure this agony if she just wanted to run off with someone?

I guess if anything was left or staged with purpose, it's not staged to look like she willingly left with the mindset to never return. At least, not to me. Maybe the initial departure was her idea, she planned to return at some point, but then something else happened, jmo.



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[Shiressleuth]

Saw this article posted on this suspect's trial thread and thought I'd share it here since there has been discussion regarding Jenna's Google timeline.


http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Google-evidence-tossed-from-Troy-suitcase-murder-12311986.php

Of course this doesn't necessarily mean the information is inaccurate, but apparently it is inadmissible evidence.

That's interesting TY GT. That makes it imperative LE also have cam footage of the stops and actual phone location data and witness evidence too I guess

I want to ask about the person who it is thought encouraged/benefitted from the theft of money from the pet shop till. Do the family know who this is? Is it one of the people alteady listed as Person 1, 2, 3 etc?

Back in thread 1 a theory was floated about the possibility that person may have thought their name would come out in court because a date was scheduled for the 21st Aug (the Monday after the disappearance IIRC) but that did not take place as the issue had been settled. That could have been a reason to harm J so has that person been identified and added
to the 'person' list along with the vet tech?

This also reminds me - what about the person receiving the WU payments? Are they also on the 'person' list?

 

[Stanly]

Im just catching up after a busy couple of days. I really dont know what to say anymore its heartbreaking.

Lots of POI's, lots of evidence & info to work with, lots of help from the Public.....yet no further forward. Nearly 7 weeks since her car was found and nothing [emoji21]

No public communication from LE, no info can be shared by our VI (quite understandably not a dig at you Subie) looooads of unanswered questions.

Im looking for something positive to go on? I cant see it. I still believe she was taken out the house involuntarily.

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[girlie13]

I have been thinking/theorizing about Jenna's activities that night. If she left the gas station on Cheshire Bridge at 11PM (the only one that we were provided a time for) and drove to the Handi Mart to Person #1 at 11:45, Jenna would have traveled almost immediately to reach the Handi Mart on Joseph Boone Blvd. The Joseph Boone Blvd.(granted it could be the other Handi-Mart on the West side) location is right next to the Vine City area---near the Bluff's, which is one of Atlanta's most dangerous neighborhoods. This area suffers from tremendous blight, with vacant and boarded up houses on each every street and is known for high crime.

With this thought in mind, IMO it is possible that Jenna never left this area that night. This scenario left me with questions about her parent's home and the missing tapestry. The sad realization that I came to is with an individual's phone and keys it would be possible to obtain directions and access to a home that you have never been to. So, here is one of my full theories (all MOO):

Jenna drives her Mom's car to the Cheshire gas station after making plans to meet Person #1. She then drives to meet Person #1 at the Handi-Mart. In the space of several hours, something happens to Jenna. I think that the person/persons responsible send the text to the SC friend and use prior knowledge or her phone to return to the parent's home. At this point, they collect the suitcase and take the tapestry as a red herring. They wipe down the Mom's car. They take the items collected from the home and place them in Jenna's car and leave with her car. I don't believe that this person(s) would have had any knowledge about the insurance. They then lock the door behind them. IMO, they take Jenna's car and store it somewhere (maybe a garage, behind a building) for several days. When Subie calls the phone that morning and it rings, I question whether the person still had the phones in their possession. I wonder if Subie's call could have caused them to power off the phone. (If this would be the case, the ping information could be why LE is so quiet.) As more and more flyers go out and news coverage starts, the responsible party(ies) moves the car to Defoor Place, places Jenna's day bag in the car and wipes the car down. They leave with Jenna's lanyard.

With Jenna's lanyard and phone, they would also likely have her address for the apartment as well. (How many of us have "home" or "frequent locations" stored in our Map apps?) They could have waited until no one was home and removed items from there as well.

Please feel free to chip away at the above. The only thing that I can think of that puts the above theory to bed is the sighting of Jenna driving someone to her parent's home, but to my knowledge that was never confirmed. I don't believe she left of her own accord but, I cannot figure out the tapestry!

 

[girlie13]

In thinking more about the tapestry and broken glass, I wonder if the family or LE checked the vacuum bag. If by some chance the glass had any finger prints or DNA on it, it could be in the vacuum bag.

 

[Capebluff]

Jenna drives her Mom's car to the Cheshire gas station after making plans to meet Person #1. She then drives to meet Person #1 at the Handi-Mart. In the space of several hours, something happens to Jenna. I think that the person/persons responsible send the text to the SC friend and use prior knowledge or her phone to return to the parent's home. At this point, they collect the suitcase and take the tapestry as a red herring. They wipe down the Mom's car. They take the items collected from the home and place them in Jenna's car and leave with her car.

>>RSBM<<

Are you thinking the person ‘responsible’ knew Jenna? Reason for asking is, IF a total stranger, I can’t imagine how they would have any knowledge that Jenna wasn’t driving her own vehicle at the time. IF not a stranger, then yes, of course! All MOO!!

 

[noseynellie]

I have been thinking/theorizing about Jenna's activities that night. If she left the gas station on Cheshire Bridge at 11PM (the only one that we were provided a time for) and drove to the Handi Mart to Person #1 at 11:45, Jenna would have traveled almost immediately to reach the Handi Mart on Joseph Boone Blvd. The Joseph Boone Blvd.(granted it could be the other Handi-Mart on the West side) location is right next to the Vine City area---near the Bluff's, which is one of Atlanta's most dangerous neighborhoods. This area suffers from tremendous blight, with vacant and boarded up houses on each every street and is known for high crime.

With this thought in mind, IMO it is possible that Jenna never left this area that night. This scenario left me with questions about her parent's home and the missing tapestry. The sad realization that I came to is with an individual's phone and keys it would be possible to obtain directions and access to a home that you have never been to. So, here is one of my full theories (all MOO):

Jenna drives her Mom's car to the Cheshire gas station after making plans to meet Person #1. She then drives to meet Person #1 at the Handi-Mart. In the space of several hours, something happens to Jenna. I think that the person/persons responsible send the text to the SC friend and use prior knowledge or her phone to return to the parent's home. At this point, they collect the suitcase and take the tapestry as a red herring. They wipe down the Mom's car. They take the items collected from the home and place them in Jenna's car and leave with her car. I don't believe that this person(s) would have had any knowledge about the insurance. They then lock the door behind them. IMO, they take Jenna's car and store it somewhere (maybe a garage, behind a building) for several days. When Subie calls the phone that morning and it rings, I question whether the person still had the phones in their possession. I wonder if Subie's call could have caused them to power off the phone. (If this would be the case, the ping information could be why LE is so quiet.) As more and more flyers go out and news coverage starts, the responsible party(ies) moves the car to Defoor Place, places Jenna's day bag in the car and wipes the car down. They leave with Jenna's lanyard.

With Jenna's lanyard and phone, they would also likely have her address for the apartment as well. (How many of us have "home" or "frequent locations" stored in our Map apps?) They could have waited until no one was home and removed items from there as well.

Please feel free to chip away at the above. The only thing that I can think of that puts the above theory to bed is the sighting of Jenna driving someone to her parent's home, but to my knowledge that was never confirmed. I don't believe she left of her own accord but, I cannot figure out the tapestry!

One little thing that I'd add is regarding that call to SC friend. What would be the motive for someone to bother sending a text on her phone, providing additional final location evidence?

I could see this act being worthwhile if she had told someone what her plans were that night, who she might be seeing, or any other clues that might lead back to that person (thinking if the suspect was a stranger or random person that wasn't obviously linked to her, maybe no need for the extra cover up). Sending a text saying she was laying down could divert attention from that person because people looking for Jenna could initially assume, as they did, that she went missing from the home, where she was supposedly sleeping alone, jmo.

Any thoughts on the deleting of all her photos after January?


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[HorseGuy]

Are there any public woods areas by the house that volunteers could search ?

 

[girlie13]

One little thing that I'd add is regarding that call to SC friend. What would be the motive for someone to bother sending a text on her phone, providing additional final location evidence?

I could see this act being worthwhile if she had told someone what her plans were that night, who she might be seeing, or any other clues that might lead back to that person (thinking if the suspect was a stranger or random person that wasn't obviously linked to her, maybe no need for the extra cover up). Sending a text saying she was laying down could divert attention from that person because people looking for Jenna could initially assume, as they did, that she went missing from the home, where she was supposedly sleeping alone, jmo.

Any thoughts on the deleting of all her photos after January?


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IMO, the phone call with the SC friend was likely as she drove to meet Person #1. Maybe Person #1 heard Jenna tell the SC friend that she would call/text them later. I agree with your thoughts on why a person known to Jenna might send this text. I also think that maybe they felt like the SC friend could ring the bell if Jenna didn't respond.

As for the photo deletion, I wondered if that was due to a syncing issue. Subie noted in Thread 1, Post 365 that beginning in February she started using a new email as her Apple ID. With a new ID, all of her photos would be on the old account and not on the new one. But, it is possible also that someone wiped it.