GA GA - Katherine Janness & Dog Bowie Fatally Stabbed - Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 2021 #5

[Cowabunga02]

So I saw one of the recent videos on this case, put out by Nancy Grace. And one of her long time guests theorized this was the action of a mentally ill person, because it was so outrageous. However I think there are a few elements that don't support that. One, is the meticulous nature of the mutilation, that I wrote about above. Two, the fact that the perp ran after the victim. I think most mentally ill people are not organized enough, and fit enough, to run after a victim. I don't think their short attention span would lead to that. Their violence would come in short bursts.

And three, look at the ability of the perp to dodge all the cameras. Judging by the testimony of the girlfriend of the position of the dog, Katie was attacked very close to the entrance of the Charles Allen gate. The sec camera, that we all saw footage of, goes very close to that spot. What are the odds that the crime happened... just ...out of range of the camera? Like within feet probably. And that this perp never wandered through the gate, that was right there, back and forth a few times, maybe looking around, like a disorganized mentally ill person would? Which of course would put him on camera. But somehow this disorganized mentally ill person, managed to avoid the camera that was right there? I don't think so.

So another thing we should do is, look for other murders in the area, where the perp skillfully avoided any security cameras. For example, when they were not functioning for some reason, when they should have been. A criminal who is aware on how to avoid cameras or to manipulate cameras. That is another element we should look for.

IYO, why do you feel the killer chased Katie?

 

[concernedcitizen706]

IYO, why do you feel the killer chased Katie?

Well he didn't want her to get away. I think she knew who he was, so he didn't want her to be able to identify him. Or even if she didn't know who he was, he still didn't want any identifying characteristics of himself known. He didn't want to get caught. Also I think he planned to kill somebody that night. And he didn't want his goal unaccomplished. I agree with the other poster above, that said he was a sexual sadist, and he wanted more thrills. He wanted the infamy of doing this out in a public park.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I wonder also if they have eliminated Brian Kohberger from this. I guess by now they would know whether he was in Atlanta at that time or not. He's always a distant possibility for this. Although he's not my first choice.

 

[dotr]

Noting, 14 year old trans girl dismembered.

PA- Pauly Likens Jr., 14, trans, stabbed & dismembered, LE still recovering body parts, Shenango River Lake, 22/6/24, *Arrest- DaShawn Watkins, 29*

July 6 '24 rbbm https://www.huffpost.com/entry/man-arrested-days-after-missing-trans-teen-found-dismembered-near-lake_n_66898772e4b0fb67af89a00c 'A 29-year-old man arrested on Tuesday stands accused of killing a teen who was found dismembered near a Pennsylvania lake last week. DaShawn Watkins...

www.websleuths.com

 

[AtlantaBourne]

Okay so I looked on Google maps for the distance from Piedmont and 10th to the Charles Allen gate. It's hard to get a precise distance because when you enlarge it kind of gives you a vague ruler. But it looks to be around 2,000 ft. A mile is over 5,000 ft. So it's about half a mile. Humans walk 3 miles an hour, or in other words 1 mi in 20 minutes. Or, a half mile in 10 minutes. So yes Katie definitely had enough time to go from the crosswalk to the Charles Allen gate by 1230. In fact she had more than enough time, because she probably would have gotten there around 12:20. But let's say she walked a little slower for her dog, then 12:30 is perfect time.

Yes, I agree. I have walked that myself & it takes about 8 minutes (without a dog). It is mostly downhill. There are residences on the right side of 10th, lots of cars parked on the street in front of them, lots of trees that make it a little on the dark side. Plus, the walk back is uphill. Also the jogger ran down 10th St that same way, ran in to the CA gate at 12:46am, then right back out continuing on down 10th 22 seconds later. So IMO there is a window of time from 12:25-12:45. After reading the autopsy that was very traumatic was that enough time?
MOO

 

[PrairieWind]

Okay so I looked on Google maps for the distance from Piedmont and 10th to the Charles Allen gate. It's hard to get a precise distance because when you enlarge it kind of gives you a vague ruler. But it looks to be around 2,000 ft. A mile is over 5,000 ft. So it's about half a mile. Humans walk 3 miles an hour, or in other words 1 mi in 20 minutes. Or, a half mile in 10 minutes. So yes Katie definitely had enough time to go from the crosswalk to the Charles Allen gate by 1230. In fact she had more than enough time, because she probably would have gotten there around 12:20. But let's say she walked a little slower for her dog, then 12:30 is perfect time.

That is about what I came up with. Allowing for the dog stopping to sniff stuff, etc, I put them reaching the CA gate area around 12:27 or so. Maybe a few minutes later if they entered from the 12th st entrance. The jogger enters the gate about 12:46 I believe. So that gives a 15 minute window for the attack, which I think is ample time. I am thinking that it maybe didn't take as long as some people think and I do suspect that the killer might have been interrupted before he was finished. Whether that was by the jogger or Emma arriving, or someone else, I don't know. I would love to know what the jogger told the police.

 

[AtlantaBourne]

Interesting thinking. As I don’t know the area and am not good with picturing the specific points in my mind, it’s especially of note to me and, I believe, barely mentioned previously. Wouldn’t Emma have told us in one of her live interviews if Katie had walked home after work with her? Or a newscaster? How do you see it playing out if Katie was not killed in the park? I had guessed that maybe Katie had gone to a bank or at least tried to and maybe was grabbed on the way. Perhaps a last-minute thought to get cash for her trip. I just want it settled so everyone has an end and the family and friends, if possible, understand why the killer did what he did to them.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that KJ was meeting someone possibly. IMO it's also possible she decided to go back to Henri's & walk home with EC. Just a spur of the moment action. That side of 10th St between Piedmont Ave (rainbow crosswalk) & Henri's at night is dark with closed businesses & a large parking lot IMO. I have witnessed alot of people in this section of 10th St sleeping & wandering in the shadows.

 

[PrairieWind]

IYO, why do you feel the killer chased Katie?

I think the distance between Bowie's body and Katie's leads many to believe that the killer first attacked Bowie, Katie ran and the killer caught up to her in the area where she was found. Certainly possible.

 

[AtlantaBourne]

So I saw one of the recent videos on this case, put out by Nancy Grace. And one of her long time guests theorized this was the action of a mentally ill person, because it was so outrageous. However I think there are a few elements that don't support that. One, is the meticulous nature of the mutilation, that I wrote about above. Two, the fact that the perp ran after the victim. I think most mentally ill people are not organized enough, and fit enough, to run after a victim. I don't think their short attention span would lead to that. Their violence would come in short bursts.

And three, look at the ability of the perp to dodge all the cameras. Judging by the testimony of the girlfriend of the position of the dog, Katie was attacked very close to the entrance of the Charles Allen gate. The sec camera, that we all saw footage of, goes very close to that spot. What are the odds that the crime happened... just ...out of range of the camera? Like within feet probably. And that this perp never wandered through the gate, that was right there, back and forth a few times, maybe looking around, like a disorganized mentally ill person would? Which of course would put him on camera. But somehow this disorganized mentally ill person, managed to avoid the camera that was right there? I don't think so.

So another thing we should do is, look for other murders in the area, where the perp skillfully avoided any security cameras. For example, when they were not functioning for some reason, when they should have been. A criminal who is aware on how to avoid cameras or to manipulate cameras. That is another element we should look for.

Regarding other murders in the area, this occurred a few days ago 1.8 miles from CA gate & 10th.
From atlantapd.org news releases:

Homicide: 243 Montgomery Ferry Rd NE.​

Post Date:07/06/2024 12:34 PM
241871901
Preliminary Information: On 7/5/24, around 8pm, officers responded to a person stabbed call at the location of 243 Montgomery Ferry Rd NE. When officers arrived on scene, they located an unidentified deceased male with multiple stab wounds. Grady EMS arrived on scene and pronounced the male deceased. Homicide detectives and multiple discretionary units responded to the scene to canvass the area for a suspect. Zone 6 FIT Units observed a subject matching the description of the suspect. He was detained and identified as William Coleman. (DOB 5/97) Coleman was found to be wanted by the Department of Corrections for Escape. He was taken into custody and transported back to APD HQ for further questioning. After further investigation, Coleman was charged with Murder, Aggravated Assault, and Possession of a Knife during the Commission of a Felony.
Please keep in mind the above information is preliminary in nature and can change as the investigation progresses and new information comes to light.

I also did research on Semmie Lee Williams of FL
Semmie Williams Jr. Indictment | PDF - Scribd
www.scribd.com › document › Semmie-...
MOO

 

[RetLawyer]

Did the article give details about the number and time of stab wounds? Assuming Katie’s murderer is a sexual sadist, it would be unusual for him to kill a man. But if the stabbing has similar aspects to it as Katie’s, it could be very interesting.

 

[AtlantaBourne]

Did the article give details about the number and time of stab wounds? Assuming Katie’s murderer is a sexual sadist, it would be unusual for him to kill a man. But if the stabbing has similar aspects to it as Katie’s, it could be very interesting.

Yes. I found this very interesting IMO. This is all the info that has been released by LE & MSM. I find it interesting as to the alledged suspect was escaped from prison. What prison, incarcerated for what, how long was suspect in prison & how long ago did he escape? Victim has not been publicly id'd.
MOO

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Noting, 14 year old trans girl dismembered.

PA- Pauly Likens Jr., 14, trans, stabbed & dismembered, LE still recovering body parts, Shenango River Lake, 22/6/24, *Arrest- DaShawn Watkins, 29*

July 6 '24 rbbm https://www.huffpost.com/entry/man-arrested-days-after-missing-trans-teen-found-dismembered-near-lake_n_66898772e4b0fb67af89a00c 'A 29-year-old man arrested on Tuesday stands accused of killing a teen who was found dismembered near a Pennsylvania lake last week. DaShawn Watkins...

www.websleuths.com

Yes this is interesting, but I still don't think it's the same type of stuff that we have with this Atlanta killing. It's the precise mutilation that makes it different in the Atlantic case.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

That is about what I came up with. Allowing for the dog stopping to sniff stuff, etc, I put them reaching the CA gate area around 12:27 or so. Maybe a few minutes later if they entered from the 12th st entrance. The jogger enters the gate about 12:46 I believe. So that gives a 15 minute window for the attack, which I think is ample time. I am thinking that it maybe didn't take as long as some people think and I do suspect that the killer might have been interrupted before he was finished. Whether that was by the jogger or Emma arriving, or someone else, I don't know. I would love to know what the jogger told the police.

I don't think the jogger necessarily interrupted anything. Probably the jogger wanted the bathroom, he saw it closed and ran out. The crime scene was further up. They were low to the ground. Maybe behind a tree or bush. And I dont think the perp would get scared off so easy. So the murder could have gone on longer than that.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Regarding other murders in the area, this occurred a few days ago 1.8 miles from CA gate & 10th.
From atlantapd.org news releases:

Homicide: 243 Montgomery Ferry Rd NE.​

Post Date:07/06/2024 12:34 PM
241871901
Preliminary Information: On 7/5/24, around 8pm, officers responded to a person stabbed call at the location of 243 Montgomery Ferry Rd NE. When officers arrived on scene, they located an unidentified deceased male with multiple stab wounds. Grady EMS arrived on scene and pronounced the male deceased. Homicide detectives and multiple discretionary units responded to the scene to canvass the area for a suspect. Zone 6 FIT Units observed a subject matching the description of the suspect. He was detained and identified as William Coleman. (DOB 5/97) Coleman was found to be wanted by the Department of Corrections for Escape. He was taken into custody and transported back to APD HQ for further questioning. After further investigation, Coleman was charged with Murder, Aggravated Assault, and Possession of a Knife during the Commission of a Felony.
Please keep in mind the above information is preliminary in nature and can change as the investigation progresses and new information comes to light.

I also did research on Semmie Lee Williams of FL
Semmie Williams Jr. Indictment | PDF - Scribd
www.scribd.com › document › Semmie-...
MOO

No I don't think it's the same type of quality.

 

[PrairieWind]

I don't think the jogger necessarily interrupted anything. Probably the jogger wanted the bathroom, he saw it closed and ran out. The crime scene was further up. They were low to the ground. Maybe behind a tree or bush. And I dont think the perp would get scared off so easy. So the murder could have gone on longer than that.

I doubt the jogger saw the attack taking place. If someone interrupted the killer, I think it was likely someone else. But, I think what the jogger saw, or DIDN"T see, is relevant. I do agree he might have been wanting to use the bathroom there, or maybe jog in the park, no idea. But Bowie's body would have visible to him in the road as he entered (he was about 50 ft inside the gate), if it was there. Did he see it and then decide to leave? Or did he NOT see it and perhaps the attack occurred after? I just would love to know what he told police. He reportedly gave at least 2 interviews to the police.

 

[RetLawyer]

I doubt the jogger saw the attack taking place. If someone interrupted the killer, I think it was likely someone else. But, I think what the jogger saw, or DIDN"T see, is relevant. I do agree he might have been wanting to use the bathroom there, or maybe jog in the park, no idea. But Bowie's body would have visible to him in the road as he entered (he was about 50 ft inside the gate), if it was there. Did he see it and then decide to leave? Or did he NOT see it and perhaps the attack occurred after? I just would love to know what he told police. He reportedly gave at least 2 interviews to the police.

That’s interesting that he gave at least 2 interviews. The jogger had on that head lamp which could have keep him looking straight forward. However, his peripheral vision could have picked up some movement that with the police drawing His attention to it in an interview the jogger may have been able to recall it. IMO Bowie had been killed and Katie had been murdered or nearly so when the jogger went into the park. It is curious tho that he went into the park given he came out and continued his run in the same direction he was headed when he entered. I would love to know anything about the murder!

 

[AtlantaBourne]

That’s interesting that he gave at least 2 interviews. The jogger had on that head lamp which could have keep him looking straight forward. However, his peripheral vision could have picked up some movement that with the police drawing His attention to it in an interview the jogger may have been able to recall it. IMO Bowie had been killed and Katie had been murdered or nearly so when the jogger went into the park. It is curious tho that he went into the park given he came out and continued his run in the same direction he was headed when he entered. I would love to know anything about the murder!

IMO interesting about the jogger running in then out then down the street. Another pic of him jogging a few minutes later on the beltline near Monroe Dr. My point is he could have jogged to Monroe Dr & the beltline if he had continued on into the park. So what made him turn around & exit? IMO did someone say, you better get outta here now.?

Attached is a pic of that section of PP taken in 2021. The fork in the service road & the circle or donut is the focus point. Just above the circle & to the left of the fork under the tree closest to the roadway is where the wtf guy placed flowers in a vase the following day (there is a white square & blue square just across from that tree). All local MSM covered this stating this is where KJ was found by EC. The path going to the left of the circle winds it way down thru 'The Meadows" & then up to Monroe Dr. & the beltline (this is the way the jogger could have taken to get off the street IMO). A little more to the left on the service road is where the bathrooms are located under tree cover. All the way to left you can barely see 10th St. verticle to the service road. This roadway ends at the CA gate & 10th St.
JMOO

 

[concernedcitizen706]

IMO interesting about the jogger running in then out then down the street. Another pic of him jogging a few minutes later on the beltline near Monroe Dr. My point is he could have jogged to Monroe Dr & the beltline if he had continued on into the park. So what made him turn around & exit? IMO did someone say, you better get outta here now.?

Attached is a pic of that section of PP taken in 2021. The fork in the service road & the circle or donut is the focus point. Just above the circle & to the left of the fork under the tree closest to the roadway is where the wtf guy placed flowers in a vase the following day (there is a white square & blue square just across from that tree). All local MSM covered this stating this is where KJ was found by EC. The path going to the left of the circle winds it way down thru 'The Meadows" & then up to Monroe Dr. & the beltline (this is the way the jogger could have taken to get off the street IMO). A little more to the left on the service road is where the bathrooms are located under tree cover. All the way to left you can barely see 10th St. verticle to the service road. This roadway ends at the CA gate & 10th St.View attachment 516603
JMOO

Yes thanks for the picture and the explanation as to where the crime scene was. I actually had the wrong idea about where the scene was. I thought it was on the right side of path. Now I am corrected. Well as you can see, there's a lot of tree cover there. So even though the one guy placed the flowers there, right on the roadway, it doesn't mean the body was not found a little bit further in, as in behind the treeline. I mean, even just behind a tree a bit, would make a big difference in terms of visibility.

Probably the jogger wanted to go to the bathroom, I don't know, do they have a water fountain there? He either saw the bathroom was closed and or got his drink of water, and left. He probably did not want to jog through a closed empty park in the middle of the night. And yes maybe he did see the dog there, and that impacted his decision to get out of there.

But yeah judging by your map, I don't think the jogger got close to the scene.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I doubt the jogger saw the attack taking place. If someone interrupted the killer, I think it was likely someone else. But, I think what the jogger saw, or DIDN"T see, is relevant. I do agree he might have been wanting to use the bathroom there, or maybe jog in the park, no idea. But Bowie's body would have visible to him in the road as he entered (he was about 50 ft inside the gate), if it was there. Did he see it and then decide to leave? Or did he NOT see it and perhaps the attack occurred after? I just would love to know what he told police. He reportedly gave at least 2 interviews to the police.

I agree with you that the jogger did not see the attack. And even if the jogger saw the dog there, he probably had no idea what it meant. But yes, maybe it did impact his decision to get out of there. I'm sure it looked, not very pleasant.

 

[Valiant]

I think the timeline estimates could be off and the killer might have had more time that proposed above.
The rainbow crosswalk image had the timestamp removed after first showing 12:09. Why? Is it possible that time displayed was not correct?
If it was correct, a lot of time is missing between leaving Henry's at about 11:30. Google shows that as about a 4 minute walk, even adding the dog it would likely not take almost 40 minutes unless there was another stop we don't know about.
If the timestamp is wrong, she could have crossed the crosswalk around 11:30-11:45. The add another 10-15 minutes and she could have been near the incident scene as early as 11:40 to midnight.