GA - Kendrick Johnson, 17, Suspicious Death, Jan. 10/11, 2013, #1

[FrayedKnot]

I am from Valdosta, Ga and would like to say that the picture posted above, of the mats, would of had to have been taken shortly after Kendrick's death...Kendrick was found in the "old" Gym, which was torn down soon after Kendrick was found...

Thank you very much for the local information! :seeya:

 

[nursemomof4]

Thank you very much for the local information! :seeya:

No problem...many of the questions that I am seeing here are questions that us locals have asked daily since the day that Kendrick was found....us local parents received a phone call around 11 am, telling us that a body of a deceased student had been found on the school property and that all Lowndes County Schools were on lock down....about 2 hours later, we were all contacted again and told that the death had been ruled an accident with no foul play involved and that schools were no longer under lock down...eventually we seen on our local news (a couple months later) that the coroner wasn't called to the scene for 6 hours...which would of been AFTER us local parents were contacted....I have signed every petition that the family has out there.....my heart breaks for them...I truly believe that they just want justice for their son!! Nothing in this story adds up...the Sheriff has an excuse for every mistake that was made in this case....more and more keeps coming to the surface, how many excuses can he possibly make?

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

ETA: This is directed to nursemomof4. Did not link her post. Oops.

wow, FrayedKnot thanked you and now I am going to thank you too. Your insight really means a lot here. Glad to know how this went down locally, and good to know that parents like you have not just swallowed everything the sheriff (and others) has asserted. Like you, we also want justice for this young man and his family. They deserve to have their questions answered.

 

[Seajay]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...n-ga-teens-gym-mat-death-victims-parents-say/

This article says that when Kendrick's body was exhumed by the family, it was stuffed with newspapers. Neither the coroners office nor the funeral home are taking responsibly for this. The plot thickens. How horrible for the parents. It adds to the questions about manner of death, cause of death.

 

[gia2]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...n-ga-teens-gym-mat-death-victims-parents-say/

This article says that when Kendrick's body was exhumed by the family, it was stuffed with newspapers. Neither the coroners office nor the funeral home are taking responsibly for this. The plot thickens. How horrible for the parents. It adds to the questions about manner of death, cause of death.

These facts have been known for quite a while now and we've talked about these things over a last few pages if you haven't seen it.

It must be terrible for the family to find out that all their son wasn't returned to them. As stated a few times before though, it's not unheard of to not return the organs and to pack the body.

Perhaps the funeral home are worried about the impact on their business a story like this would cause. Most people don't seem to be aware of what an autopsy involves and the way the body is returned for burial. People seem so shocked about organs being removed and a body being packed, despite this being normal i'm sure it would impact business if people believed that this company don't take care of the bodies of their loves ones.

(Has the funeral home been named in the media?)

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Warning...graphic details of an autopsy at the link

http://www.deep-six.com/deathweb/page216.htm

Samples of each organ are obtained, Each organ may be removed, weighed and dissected. The contents of the stomach is tested for poison and/or drugs. Other tissues are analyzed for disease, drugs, punctures, bullets, and other abnormalities. Sometimes the organs are replaced and sometimes they are not. In any case, some sort of packing material will be placed in the cavities prior to suturing.

I did not know that it was common practice to remove organs and pack the body. I would imagine most people don't know these things, just like they don't know the other graphic things that are done during an autopsy. It would be inappropriate to share these details with the loved one of a deceased because it would cause unnecessary additional pain knowing what is done to the body after death.

 

[pageantmom]

Something is not right here. A strangers clothes were found nearby, someone else's blood was on the wall, he himself had way too much blood, and besides all that there is the fact that his organs were removed and his body was stuffed with newspaper and the funeral home said that happened BEFORE they got the body, not after.

 

[LinasK]

Something is not right here. A strangers clothes were found nearby, someone else's blood was on the wall, he himself had way too much blood, and besides all that there is the fact that his organs were removed and his body was stuffed with newspaper and the funeral home said that happened BEFORE they got the body, not after.

I agree, and I think something smelly fishy, smells like murder coverup, not a "tragic accident" which seems highly unlikely!!

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I agree as well. Look at the openings in those mats. How could anyone older than a newborn accidentally fall into one?

Source: http://wtkr.com/2013/10/09/expert-gym-mat-death-pics-point-to-foul-play/

 

[IzzyBlanche]

And this quote about the blood on the wall really bothers me too:

In May, sheriff’s Lt. Stryde Jones told CNN that investigators tested the bloodstains on the nearby wall, “and it was not the blood of Kendrick Johnson.” Investigators haven’t determined whose blood it was, “but it doesn’t appear to be involved in our crime in any way,” he said.

I thought it wasn't a crime. :waitasec:

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

nice catch IzzyBlanche!

I am over the issue with this young man's organs and am convinced nothing nefarious or unusual happened there. Thanks those of you who weighed in with your knowledge of such things, and shared "sciency" related information about what happens during an autopsy.

That said, this young man's death needs to continue to be investigated fully. His family, the school, the community - they deserve answers. Even if this was some sort of accident, his death deserves a better explanation that what has been doled out.

I say again - Justice for Kendrick.

 

[4BB]

honest questions:

Looking at the mats. Is it possible that a 3 sport muscular athlete could use the palms of his hands and the movement of his feet to push the mat over?
Im trying to picture him with his palms down pushing himself backwards to back out. Could he use his life saving adrenaline to move it at all?
(I know these things weigh a lot)

Why would he not go in feet first and slide his foot in the shoe?
If he bled out why would the shoe he was retrieving not be covered in blood?
Was there scratching of clawing to the inside of the mat, possibly where the roll ended inside? (which looks like it was in front of him and reachable.)
I would try to rip and tear my way out if my life depended on it. I would press my hands against the inside and find any leverage I could to inch myself out. Possibly even using my toes to push through the bottom and overturn the thing somehow. Using my leg muscles to get me out one way or the other. In using my toes to push, I would think his socks would have been a little less neat and possibly hanging half off. Obviously I say I would try these things, not necessarily succeed...I'm just thinking there should be signs of a struggle to live inside that mat.

All just my mind wondering... maybe it will help someone else.

 

[4BB]

Speaking of the 2nd paid pathologist.
Obviously he may be swayed by the family, but there is some interesting facts about lungs from the initial report:

"The initial autopsy report declared that Kendrick died of “positional asphyxia.” Yet the report noted that Johnson’s right lung weighed 260 grams and his left weighed 240 grams. Anderson has said that if Kendrick did in fact die of positional asphyxia, his lungs likely would have weighed much more"

On various other sites I see the lungs should weigh 800-900 grams if positional asphyxia were the cause. This can be easily confirmed or disputed by other pathologists.

For recent reference, age, sex, etc.. Trayvon Martin's lungs weighed 410 grams together. TM was 71 inches and 158 lbs at the time of his death. He was shot in the right lower lung so that may have thrown off the combined weight of the lungs compared to average combined weight.
KJ was roughly the same size (5'10" and 160 lbs)

 

[FrayedKnot]

Speaking of the 2nd paid pathologist.
Obviously he may be swayed by the family, but there is some interesting facts about lungs from the initial report:

"The initial autopsy report declared that Kendrick died of “positional asphyxia.” Yet the report noted that Johnson’s right lung weighed 260 grams and his left weighed 240 grams. Anderson has said that if Kendrick did in fact die of positional asphyxia, his lungs likely would have weighed much more"

On various other sites I see the lungs should weigh 800-900 grams if positional asphyxia were the cause. This can be easily confirmed or disputed by other pathologists.

For recent reference, age, sex, etc.. Trayvon Martin's lungs weighed 410 grams together. TM was 71 inches and 158 lbs at the time of his death. He was shot in the right lower lung so that may have thrown off the combined weight of the lungs compared to average combined weight.
KJ was roughly the same size (5'10" and 160 lbs)

Wow! I so appreciate folks like you who will do the math. I, sadly, am not that person. :blushing:

Thank you! :loveyou:

 

[pearl]

honest questions:

Looking at the mats. Is it possible that a 3 sport muscular athlete could use the palms of his hands and the movement of his feet to push the mat over?
Im trying to picture him with his palms down pushing himself backwards to back out. Could he use his life saving adrenaline to move it at all?
(I know these things weigh a lot)

Why would he not go in feet first and slide his foot in the shoe?
If he bled out why would the shoe he was retrieving not be covered in blood?
Was there scratching of clawing to the inside of the mat, possibly where the roll ended inside? (which looks like it was in front of him and reachable.)
I would try to rip and tear my way out if my life depended on it. I would press my hands against the inside and find any leverage I could to inch myself out. Possibly even using my toes to push through the bottom and overturn the thing somehow. Using my leg muscles to get me out one way or the other. In using my toes to push, I would think his socks would have been a little less neat and possibly hanging half off. Obviously I say I would try these things, not necessarily succeed...I'm just thinking there should be signs of a struggle to live inside that mat.

All just my mind wondering... maybe it will help someone else.

Think of a memory foam mattress topper. These mats are very similar though not the exact same kind of foam. I don't think KJ would have been able to get any kind of leverage by pressing against the mat with any part of his body. The foam would give to accommodate his shifting body but would not give him any kind of grip to wiggle out of it. This is just my opinion.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Think of a memory foam mattress topper. These mats are very similar though not the exact same kind of foam. I don't think KJ would have been able to get any kind of leverage by pressing against the mat with any part of his body. The foam would give to accommodate his shifting body but would not give him any kind of grip to wiggle out of it. This is just my opinion.

Hmm. But also given those same materials and texture/ pressure, how likely is it KJ would have fallen into the rolled up mat to begin with?

I have a memory foam topper and NOTHING slides over it's surface. It's almost like velcro. If those mats are really like memory foam, the sheriff's explanation is even more hinky than before. I was picturing a traditional gym mat with a slick surface. And even that was a stretch. I am thinking more and more that KJ was rolled up in the mat and THEN upended.

 

[pearl]

Hmm. But also given those same materials and texture/ pressure, how likely is it KJ would have fallen into the rolled up mat to begin with?

I have a memory foam topper and NOTHING slides over it's surface. It's almost like velcro. If those mats are really like memory foam, the sheriff's explanation is even more hinky than before. I was picturing a traditional gym mat with a slick surface. And even that was a stretch. I am thinking more and more that KJ was rolled up in the mat and THEN upended.

I used a memory foam mattress topper for several months because some friends told me they were so comfortable. I did not think so and trashed it. I found it to be hot, suffocating, and too cumbersome to move and adequately clean. We rolled it up like a rug, and it took 3 men to carry it out of the house. In replying, I am referring to the picture in post #182. The mat is foam. You can see where pieces have been gouged out of it. Unlike a memory foam, it does have a stiffer backing, maybe vinyl or rubber. I will try to remember to check the gym mats the next time I substitute at school where there are several types of mats. I do believe there are a couple of these same kind. If they were purchased through the RESA program, they are the same kind. My opinion is that once he was in the mat, he was in it to stay. He could not have rocked it over with his body weight because it was surrounded by other mats. I don't think he could have pushed his way out being upside down. Maybe if he was feet first, he could have saved himself or yelled until someone found him.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

nice catch IzzyBlanche!

Snipped for focus

I didn't make the catch so I can't take credit. Someone far upthread did.

But no matter, I find what he said very disturbing. In the rest of the interview he speaks easily and does not seem to grasp for words, so the fact that "our crime" comes so naturally out of his mouth sends my hinky meter reading up to 11.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

And another thing.

He says (paraphrasing from memory) the investigators determined by sight that the blood on the wall looked to have been there for a while and wasn't fresh, so they didn't test it.

Raise your hands? How many people here went to a high school where blood wouldn't have been cleaned off a gym wall within days if not hours of it having been left there?

Again, hinky meter up to 11.

 

[beth272]

I just started reading this thread so I apologize if this question sounds stupid...but are they really saying that he "accidentally" fell into a gym mat upside down to get a shoe??? If it were me and I lost my shoe, I would not try to get it out by going upside down in one of those mats....I'd let the shoe go, tell the PE teacher, a coach, principal, someone, before I'd dive in to get it...but thats just me and my opinion. I dont think this kid died "accidentally"...so tragic