GA - Kendrick Johnson, 17, Suspicious Death, Jan. 10/11, 2013, #2

[Karmady]

I don't recall anybody saying the body wasn't moved. I must have missed that somewhere.

In the link upthread, Lowndes County LE says the statement from NAN (and presumably others) about the body being moved are not true. However, I think the issue is what does "moved" mean. Obviously, NAN is implying that the body was improperly moved and Lowndes is saying that the body wasn't improperly moved. There's moved, then there's MOVED. Just more smoke, imo.

 

[Tawny]

In the link upthread, Lowndes County LE says the statement from NAN (and presumably others) about the body being moved are not true. However, I think the issue is what does "moved" mean. Obviously, NAN is implying that the body was improperly moved and Lowndes is saying that the body wasn't improperly moved. There's moved, then there's MOVED. Just more smoke, imo.

Thanks! I did indeed miss that.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Of course the body was moved. The gym teacher pulled down the mat and the emt's extricated him far enough to pronounce him dead.

jmo

Then why do you think the coroner complained so much that the body had been moved before he arrived? I'm sure there are many instances in which EMTs must move a body to attempt CPR and/or pronounce. Why do you think the coroner thought it unusual enough in in this case to remark on it?

 

[Tawny]

I think he was annoyed that others were not doing their job properly (by his standards/ideas) and it affected HIS job.

Why does someone complaining about others doing their job sloppy/wrong suddenly mean there is some massive cover up?

 

[Karmady]

Then why do you think the coroner complained so much that the body had been moved before he arrived? I'm sure there are many instances in which EMTs must move a body to attempt CPR and/or pronounce. Why do you think the coroner thought it unusual enough in in this case to remark on it?

Honestly, it seems to me that he was just distancing himself from the situation. As in, hey, don't drag me into this. They didn't call me in time and by the time I got there, there was nothing I could do. From what I've read, this was an extremely volatile situation locally from the beginning and his position is elected. I can't think of any other reason he'd even care or comment since he wouldn't have been part of the "investigation" anyway. He confirmed the death and the body would be taken for an autopsy -- which he didn't perform.

There may be more to it at a persona/local level, but obviously I'm not in a position to know that. I do know that the GBI was on the scene quickly. So if there was a problem with the body being improperly moved, the GBI would have a problem with it, too. But they didn't.

jmo

 

[BeginnersLuck]

The minute the mat was touched the scene was compromised. It was compromised when kids were on top of the mats, it was compromised when the gym teacher frantically tried to access the situation and for that matter any scene, in most situations, is compromised by whoever finds a person injured or dead, including medical personnel.

In other cases when life saving procedures are performed on individuals, the scene is compromised. This is terminology that is used in the profession.

In justifiable police action shootings that result in death, homicide is the terminology that is used.

IMO, it doesn't matter how he said it. They are using a few words he said to fuel the fire. They are grasping at every straw. It's irrelevant, because the scene was compromised. Compromised in this situation does not equal nefarious.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I think he was annoyed that others were not doing their job properly (by his standards/ideas) and it affected HIS job.

Why does someone complaining about others doing their job sloppy/wrong suddenly mean there is some massive cover up?

BBM. I'm not sure if this question is directed at me since it was in response to my post or if it's simply a general question, but just for the record, I never said anything about a massive cover-up.

 

[Sherp]

Then why do you think the coroner complained so much that the body had been moved before he arrived? I'm sure there are many instances in which EMTs must move a body to attempt CPR and/or pronounce. Why do you think the coroner thought it unusual enough in in this case to remark on it?

With 6 GBI investigators, GBI technicians and the local cops on the scene for hours, I think this non physician elected coroner felt left out of the proceedings and his role minimized. I find it impossible to believe that this "coroner" was in a position to evaluate any ones job performance. The GBI are professionals. The coroner's only job is to pronounce the person dead and designate a homicide or natural causes. The GBI and Sheriff's Office investigate this tragedy from the get go as a homicide. It was clear that Kendrick was dead from the smell of decomposing flesh and the facial bloating from body fluids pooling in his face.

 

[Tawny]

BBM. I'm not sure if this question is directed at me since it was in response to my post or if it's simply a general question, but just for the record, I never said anything about a massive cover-up.

It was a general question

 

[al66pine]

Both descriptions are quoted from LE’s report, linked below.

Description 1 =
After his arrival, LE reported he was advised body was “slightly pulled out of the mat.” *
LE Thornton’s report does not state he himself observed body position but that he “was advised”
likely, imo, by other LEs arriving earlier or by coach.

Description 2 =
Body was “sticking out of the rolled-up mat from his head to approximately his abdominal area” when county coroner arrived on scene ~4:00pm.” **and
“the body was removed from the mat so …Corner [sic]…could continue his examination.” ** BBM SBM

As I understand LE report-writing protocol, the phrasing indicates that this is Thornton’s own observation, but I could be wrong.

Did some people conclude the body was moved rather than recognizing -
two different people described the body position slightly differently?
I think so.

JM2cts and I could be wrong. :seeya:
　

http://www.news4jax.com/blob/view/-/20620512/data/1/-/x8111n/-/Crime-lab-report-in-Kendrick-Johnson-case.pdf
* LE report, paragraph 1 of page 2. Thornton states after arriving at the scene he was advised “… that the body was positioned head first inside of the rolled-up mat. EMS arrived on scene and the victim [KJ‘’s name & address]… was slightly pulled out of the mat and found deceased.”
** LE report, last paragraph on page 3. Thornton states “…at approximately 1600 hours, The Lowndes County Comer [sic] Bill Watson arrived on scene to conduct his examination of Johnson. Johnson's body was positioned lying approximately on his left side sticking out of the rolled-up mat from his head to approximately his abdominal area. The remainder of his body from approximately the abdominal area to his feet was inside the rolled-up mat. Johnson’s head was on the concrete floor in a pool of blood. Johnson's body was removed from the mat so Lowndes County Corner [sic] Bill Watson could continue his examination.” (‘Corner‘ rather than ‘Coroner’ appears twice.)

 

[noZme]

Did anyone catch this?

When the post-mortem photo appeared, the poor quality was explained to be because it was a cell phone pic. I cannot imagine that photograph having been released to the media by the sheriff or GBI or funeral home. If it had been leaked by someone at the gym, there would have been outrage by the parents or lawyer & someone would have been sued.

So, did it come from the family or someone representing them? The body was identified by a family member (grandfather or uncle) & after it was moved to the GBI Lab in Macon, KJ's dad went there to view the body.

Who made that picture? This question has nagged at me for months.

 

[Reader]

IIRC, the GBI tested tissue samples from that area while the second autopsy (and presumably the EMT) did not. JMO. OMO. MOO.

IIRC, the GBI autopsy included tissue samples of the area. The second autopsy did not. The jaded part of me says that this is because the person conducting the second autopsy did not want to rule out bruising. I have little faith in the privately purchased second autopsy. JMO. OMO. MOO.

The GBI pathologist and Dr. Anderson dissected two separate areas of the neck for their findings:

GBI:
Neck: A layered dissection of the anterior neck is performed.
Anterior of the neck is the front. The report speaks of an examination of the larynx, mucoso, hyoid bone.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anterior?s=t
An anterior dissection of the neck examines the nodes, thyroid, larynx.
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Thyroid?o=2801&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com

Dr. Anderson:
On page 3, he writes regarding a dissection of the 'previously undissected area' and finds hemmorhage in the 'right mandible' area and the "right common carotid artery and carotid body'.
Placement of carotid arteries:
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Internal_carotid_artery?o=2801&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com

*****

Regarding the "missing" clothes, Page 2 of 5 of the Official Report from the Division of Forensics GBI states:

Personal Effects Disposition:
The clothing, set of earphones/buds and hair ties (3) are released with the body.

Typically, a body is returned to the family with a bag of personal effects — clothing, accessories, and anything else found with the deceased at the time of death. That day, Harrington Funeral Home received two bodies from the GBI crime lab. One arrived with clothing. The other body — Kendrick's — did not. Instead, it came only with a pair of broken headphones.

Somewhere between Macon and Valdosta, Kendrick's clothes had disappeared. The Johnsons believe these items may have contained evidence indicating a physical struggle, giving weight to their suspicion that Kendrick's death was no accident. More importantly, they could have fiber or DNA evidence. Owens, who transported the body, did not respond to requests for comment. As for what the clothing may have shown, the Johnsons may never know.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...-17-year-old-football-player-valdosta-georgia

A state medical examiner ruled his death accidental, despite evidence of a neck injury found in a second autopsy conducted by a pathologist hired by the family. His fingernails had been clipped, his clothes were missing and his organs had been removed and replaced by newspaper.

"We have had what I think is a series of events that causes you to raise the question, when does a coincidence stop being a coincidence," King told reporters Wednesday in Valdosta, Georgia.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/georgi...ideo/-/475792/22857926/-/on3gwez/-/index.html

****
RSBM

Just a few MSM quotes that might help, (and one at the end that frustrated me.)

1/19 (referring to funeral) Kendricks friends spoke, so did his football and basketball coach http://tinyurl.com/lrfjqqu

According to a previous article, these were Kendrick's coaches from the middle school:

The dead boys’ friends and family say they were also slighted when virtually every member from the high school faculty, including his coaches, were absent at the funeral.

‘Only two teachers came to K.J.’s funeral,’ Rickey told MailOnline. ‘And a substitute teacher came.’

The three teachers joined a mass of mourners; some included Kendrick’s middle school football coaches and his middle school principals, while others traveled from rival high schools and drove long distances to pay their respects. Rickey said the abandonment hurt.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...urs-teens-mysterious-death.html#ixzz2kqIOV1Hx

 

[Tawny]

That day, Harrington Funeral Home received two bodies from the GBI crime lab. One arrived with clothing. The other body — Kendrick's — did not. Instead, it came only with a pair of broken headphones.

---

A state medical examiner ruled his death accidental, despite evidence of a neck injury found in a second autopsy conducted by a pathologist hired by the family. His fingernails had been clipped, his clothes were missing and his organs had been removed and replaced by newspaper.

"We have had what I think is a series of events that causes you to raise the question, when does a coincidence stop being a coincidence," King told reporters Wednesday in Valdosta, Georgia.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/georgi...ideo/-/475792/22857926/-/on3gwez/-/index.html

SBM

The clothing thing was refuted by the Sheriff/GBI (link upthread).. The funeral home signed for clothing, as shown upthread. It's on the funeral home now what happened to those clothes, and IIRC, they are being investigated, so that would explain why they haven't spoken out.

The fingernails being clipped really seems to be another stretch, grasping at straws. The family said KJ kept his fingernails long while photos show him with short nails. The fingernail claim and the clothing claim both come from the families' lawyer. None of it has been proven.

Respectfully, :twocents:

 

[Karmady]

SBM

The clothing thing was refuted by the Sheriff/GBI (link upthread).. The funeral home signed for clothing, as shown upthread. It's on the funeral home now what happened to those clothes, and IIRC, they are being investigated, so that would explain why they haven't spoken out.

The fingernails being clipped really seems to be another stretch, grasping at straws. The family said KJ kept his fingernails long while photos show him with short nails. The fingernail claim and the clothing claim both come from the families' lawyer. None of it has been proven.

Respectfully, :twocents:

Tawny, did you mean to say the funeral home signed for them, or the guy who transported the body from GBI to the funeral home? I thought it was the transport guy who signed, which is what the blog posted by Scarlett said. I don't remember if it says who hired that guy, but it did say he didn't talk to the media and also made sure to mention the fact that he's retired LE just so we could all infer that he must have been "in on it" too :facepalm:

jmo

 

[Tawny]

Tawny, did you mean to say the funeral home signed for them, or the guy who transported the body from GBI to the funeral home? I thought it was the transport guy who signed, which is what the blog posted by Scarlett said. I don't remember if it says who hired that guy, but it did say he didn't talk to the media and also made sure to mention the fact that he's retired LE just so we could all infer that he must have been "in on it" too :facepalm:

jmo

I think I assumed the driver worked for the funeral home.

Yet another of the hundreds who are in on a massive conspiracy.

 

[Reader]

This is a repost of a previous article but I just focused on what Mr. Miller said:

While warning his jurisdiction is limited as a federal prosecutor, Moore said that after lengthy review of evidence collected by authorities and the family's own investigator that "sufficient basis exists" to warrant a formal review of the facts.

Should evidence gathered in the investigation warrant criminal or civil rights charges, he said he would recommend them.

"I will follow the facts wherever they lead. My objective is to discover the truth," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/31/justice/georgia-gym-mat-death/index.html

To me, this means that in reviewing the facts known so far, Mr. Miller sees some of the same questions in the case that some of us do. He did include evidence collected by the family's investigator, so is giving those questions weight in the case, including the matters concerning the different autopsy outcomes, the missing evidence, how the county/GBI investigation was conducted, and the body was handled later by GBI and the funeral home.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

With 6 GBI investigators, GBI technicians and the local cops on the scene for hours, I think this non physician elected coroner felt left out of the proceedings and his role minimized. I find it impossible to believe that this "coroner" was in a position to evaluate any ones job performance. The GBI are professionals. The coroner's only job is to pronounce the person dead and designate a homicide or natural causes. The GBI and Sheriff's Office investigate this tragedy from the get go as a homicide. It was clear that Kendrick was dead from the smell of decomposing flesh and the facial bloating from body fluids pooling in his face.

BBM. I find a contradiction in these two statements.

If the coroner's only job is to pronounce the person dead and designate a homicide or natural causes, then why would he feel left out of the proceedings and his role minimized?

As far as I recall he wasn't a newbie to the position he held, and therefore must have been well aware of what his "only" job was. So why would he have felt left out of the proceedings enough to complain publicly about it if normal protocol was being followed?

 

[Sherp]

BBM. I find a contradiction in these two statements.

If the coroner's only job is to pronounce the person dead and designate a homicide or natural causes, then why would he feel left out of the proceedings and his role minimized?

As far as I recall he wasn't a newbie to the position he held, and therefore must have been well aware of what his "only" job was. So why would he have felt left out of the proceedings enough to complain publicly about it if normal protocol was being followed?

Due to the decomposing and smell, it was obvious that poor Kendrick was deceased as soon as his body was found. The GBI and local LE investigated the scene as a homicide from the get go, something like hours before the coroner was notified and arrived at the scene.

 

[Reader]

Even if everyone in LE knew Kendrick was deceased, the correct protocol of calling the coroner to officially pronounce him deceased was still not followed.

Was there some reason they did not want the coroner present to witness their investigation? He seems to think so. Why was his original report of complaints about it changed?

 

[Karmady]

Even if everyone in LE knew Kendrick was deceased, the correct protocol of calling the coroner to officially pronounce him deceased was still not followed.

Was there some reason they did not want the coroner present to witness their investigation? He seems to think so. Why was his original report of complaints about it changed?

~bbm I doubt it. He isn't a Dr. and has no training in law enforcement or crime scene investigation that I'm aware of. I think the explanation they gave for not calling him sooner is logical and probably the truth of the matter. The coroner would have wasted several hours cooling his heels in the parking lot drinking coffee for 5 minutes of "work."

I don't know why he toned down his report. But I posted my thinking about why he went so far with the first one upthread.


Here's what he had to say about the pending petition for a coroner's inquest:

"Coroner's inquests are not something you do every day. I cannot tell you the last time a coroner's inquest was done in this office," Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson said.
"I want to do the right thing by the people and the county and all concerned; I'm just not sure we have enough information. I'm not about to refute anybody's findings because I'm not a doctor," said Watson.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/03/us/georgia-teen-death-autopsy/

jmo