GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #11

[bessie]

So it is likely the toilets share plumbing to sewer? And sinks and showers/tubs share plumbing from hot water heaters?

I was able to deduce bathroom layout from photos. Hot water heaters might be individual. Don't know for sure, but probably in dead space in corner cabinets.


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[Oriah]

Okay, reading some more. They do have a cadaver dog, but we don't know which dog was used, do we? Also, I have read repeatedly that it is not good to have a dog trained as both a rescue and a cadaver dog, but they have several. I can see how that might cause a problem on any search where that dog hit because he was trained to hit on living and dead. It could be very unclear which he was hitting on.

Cross-trained SAR dogs are controversial for that very reason.

The trick is really to train them to alert in several distinctly different ways. That's why it's important to know exactly how SAR dogs alert.
For example- a cross trained dog in a disaster situation might bark 7 times- take a break- then bark 7 more times for a live hit -until a handler releases him. That same dog may bark 2 times- take a break- and then bark again in 2's till their handler releases them from a HRD hit.

Make sense?

So... in Lauren's case, we have three different types of SAR dogs used. Is that correct?

 

[Oriah]

I'll let someone else respond to this because it seems likely, but I'm not a plumber or in the construction biz. But, I want to reiterate, Oriah, that the apartment directly below the victim's is the third apartment where the dogs alerted. I would guess its layout is like the victim's apartment and that they would share plumbing.

I don't think we know exactly where in that apartment the dogs alerted, though.

I see.

So they likely share wastewater drainage from fresh water sources, such as sinks and showers.

Are there any leaks in any of the 3 apartments' plumbing? Is it pvc or copper?

 

[Wondergirl]

BBM

If I am reading this right, they did not search McD's apartment with cadaver dogs. Just regular search dogs. Not that they are regular dogs, but they are not looking for dead bodies and are not trained to hit on decomposition. That is something important to think about. It would mean a link to a decomposing body was not found in his apartment. And it gives credence to the story of him tracking in her scent from her apartment.

Oriah, another question. See what you started. lol! Would a dog hit on a room where no body had been, but the room did share a vent with an adjacent room and a body had been in the other room? Thinking of in a house where the duct work is sometimes shared. If the decomp were in a bathroom, could the dog hit on the adjacent bedroom if they had a common vent?

Thanks for letting us pick your brain.

BBM: I don't know what you are reading, but LE specifically said they would not disclose the type of dogs that were used in Search #1.

The section of Georgia Avenue between Orange Street and Nisbet Place was closed for much of Thursday during the investigation. Dogs from Villa Rica-based K9 Search & Rescue Specialists searched the area Thursday afternoon.

Police spokeswoman Jami Gaudet said she couldn’t confirm what type of dogs were being used or what exactly the dogs were searching for.
“They’re looking for clues,” she said.


Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/06/30/1616531/body-found-mercer-law-giddings.html#ixzz1Wi7Gcdqj

As indicated in my previous post, the Villa Ricca based K9 Search and Rescue Specialists were called in by LE for Search #1. According to their site, they do have HRD Dogs, among other types of dogs, with various certifications.

http://www.k9sars.org/MoreDogs.html

So, I do not know how you can make the statement that Cadaver/HRD Dogs were not used.

We do not know.

 

[Wondergirl]

Oriah:

For clarification from my questions, regarding question #4, let me rephrase.

Once a dog alerts to an area, are they allowed "free reign" to run around and alert on other areas, if there are any?

eg. A dog alerts in an apartment, is it allowed to run until it doesn't alert anymore?

If so, exactly how far would the dog be allowed to run?

eg. A dog alerts in an apartment, is allowed to run, runs to several other apartments, runs to the parking lot, runs across the road to a dumpster. How far would the dog be allowed to alert, if they were "trailing" or whatever the terminology is?

Which brings me to 1 more question (sorry).

What does the HRD Dog physically do when it alerts? What is the procedure by the handler, after an HRD Dog alerts?

 

[Oriah]

Oriah:

For clarification from my questions, regarding question #4, let me rephrase.

Once a dog alerts to an area, are they allowed "free reign" to run around and alert on other areas, if there are any?

eg. A dog alerts in an apartment, is it allowed to run until it doesn't alert anymore?

If so, exactly how far would the dog be allowed to run?

eg. A dog alerts in an apartment, is allowed to run, runs to several other apartments, runs to the parking lot, runs across the road to a dumpster. How far would the dog be allowed to alert, if they were "trailing" or whatever the terminology is?

Which brings me to 1 more question (sorry).

What does the HRD Dog physically do when it alerts? What is the procedure by the handler, after an HRD Dog alerts?

BBM:
No.
Well, not our dogs anyway, lol.

If an HRD dog is brought to a location (whether it is an apartment, a dumpster, a landfill, a rubble pile etc) in order to detect scent of human remains- they are not sort of willynilly taking off in any and every direction. They should be responding to their handlers commands.

So let's say the command for my HRD dog is "Find it HERE". Then my dog should search the area I am indicating and not go beyond it. Then I move to another area, and repeat "Find it HERE." The dog should search it in the same manner.

Only trailing dogs should 'take off' on their own, so to speak. And even then they should respond to voice commands- so they should be within range of voice command.

As for alerting- there are many ways that dogs alert, from barking to laying down, etc. But the most validity of SAR K9's comes when they alert and hold their position, until their handler releases them.

Does that help?

 

[Wondergirl]

BBM:
No.
Well, not our dogs anyway, lol.

If an HRD dog is brought to a location (whether it is an apartment, a dumpster, a landfill, a rubble pile etc) in order to detect scent of human remains- they are not sort of willynilly taking off in any and every direction. They should be responding to their handlers commands.

So let's say the command for my HRD dog is "Find it HERE". Then my dog should search the area I am indicating and not go beyond it. Then I move to another area, and repeat "Find it HERE." The dog should search it in the same manner.

Only trailing dogs should 'take off' on their own, so to speak. And even then they should respond to voice commands- so they should be within range of voice command.

As for alerting- there are many ways that dogs alert, from barking to laying down, etc. But the most validity of SAR K9's comes when they alert and hold their position, until their handler releases them.

Does that help?

Yes it does help, and is much appreciated.

Thank-you kindly, Oriah, for answer my questions. :blowkiss:

 

[Wondergirl]

Oriah:

One more question, of utmost importance.

Lauren Giddings torso is the only part of her remains discovered to date.

Her head, arms and legs are still missing.

There has been discussion regarding one of the landfills being searched, and I *think* that the garbage from the week in question (or so) has been cordoned off, so to speak, and no other garbage put there.

Is it possible that HRD Dogs could alert on Lauren's remains if they were there, a full 2 months after possibly being put there?

 

[matou]

Ok some thoughts I had:

Was he stealing condoms to plant as evidence for a future crime?

Also, the chain mail is what butchers wear when cutting up meat. That's what I thought right away when I heard about him wearing it to class, etc. The medieval thing is I believe could be bogus, to laugh in his own way at what he is really into.

He always has an explanation for everything. I believe he wants to get away with this to show that he can. JMO

Stealing condoms is really juvenile and he got busted for that. Why steal condoms when they are cheap to buy? Something was up with that, IMO.

 

[Oriah]

Oriah:

One more question, of utmost importance.

Lauren Giddings torso is the only part of her remains discovered to date.

Her head, arms and legs are still missing.

There has been discussion regarding one of the landfills being searched, and I *think* that the garbage from the week in question (or so) has been cordoned off, so to speak, and no other garbage put there.

Is it possible that HRD Dogs could alert on Lauren's remains if they were there, a full 2 months after possibly being put there?

Yes, with the right dog(s).

And let the knowledge of that put fear in the hearts of criminals everywhere. :innocent:

 

[Cas128]

[/B]

Yes, with the right dog(s).

And let the knowledge of that put fear in the hearts of criminals everywhere. :innocent:

Thank you, Oriah. I find the role of HRD and SRD dogs especially fascinating and really appreciate your enlightening input. Thank goodness for those hard-working canines and their trainers.

 

[Knox]

Knowing what a busy time this is for you Oriah ... thank you for educating us on the HRD issues in Lauren's case. Very much appreciated!!

 

[SmoothOperator]

Re: wondergirl asking if dogs a full two months out from the death.. Would the HRD dogs still be able to alert on the remains if they are in the landfill which is scheduled to be searched..

Oriah's answer: yes, with the right dogs and let the knowledge of that put fear in the hearts of criminals everywhere!

My comment: From your mouth, Oriah to God's ears.. Or better yet from your mouth directly to the criminals ears!!!

Because IMO we have got to deter them there are too, too many innocent people(babies, children, women, and men).. All innocent victims of these monsters who prey on their kind and gentle hearts.. Just as IMO happened with Stephen and Lauren's kind, caring, and compassionate heart with which she treated him with nothing but respect and absolute kindness..

IMO there are hotter burning pits of hell for people who take someone's kindness, innocence, caring nature and use it to further trap and kill their prey, real life human beings with entire lives ahead of them and the very many that love them that they were stolen from.. There IMO are hotter pits of hell for these murderers in particular..jmo, tho!!

 

[Knox]

ORIAH
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,017

Originally Posted by southern_comfort So, could a dog sense decomp coming from within an area, behind a closed door? And would he then alert at the door?

Yes.
If a door to a room in a home or business or whatever were closed, and on the other side of the door there were human remains- an HRD dog should first alert at the door. That is not because they are trailing or tracking- it's because they are close enough to the source of the scent they are looking for- but have encounted obstacles in alerting right at the source. If the door is opened for the dog, and remains are, say, at the opposite side of the room- the dog should alert again, right at the location of the remains.

 

[PsychoMom]

Cross-trained SAR dogs are controversial for that very reason.

The trick is really to train them to alert in several distinctly different ways. That's why it's important to know exactly how SAR dogs alert.
For example- a cross trained dog in a disaster situation might bark 7 times- take a break- then bark 7 more times for a live hit -until a handler releases him. That same dog may bark 2 times- take a break- and then bark again in 2's till their handler releases them from a HRD hit.

Make sense?

So... in Lauren's case, we have three different types of SAR dogs used. Is that correct?

That is what I was afraid of. The agency they used seems to have a lot of cross trained dogs. That could be a problem in a court case because it could mean they hit on remnants of someone deceased or on something from a living person that may have been tracked in. It could be an issue later during the trial.

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[PlainJaneDoe]

Bessie, PsychoMom, & Smooth* - Thanks for posting the articles! I love it!

 

[SmoothOperator]

WoW.. That's what I get for popping off with a post before I was able to sit down and actually R-E-A-D through the posts.. Unfortunately only had a few mins to quickly scan thru and then just jumped right in with a post without having thoroughly read what was ahead of mine..

Thanks knoxy for reposting the info about the HRD dogs and that they indeed would react similarly to what I initially purposed yesterday in that their job woukd be seeking out the trace evidence in the air(if available) and making their way to the door of an apt that they are indicating that there likely are human remain scents available on a particular area behind or through the door of that apt..

Sorry for throwing irrelevant bunk out into the thread.. I will attempt to do a better job of making sure not to post until I have sufficient amount of time to actually read the posts and not just skim over and then blurt out whAtever silly notion pops into my mind..:crazy:

Bessie, feel free to delete my insignificant and irrelevant post upthread if I find that my little blue edit button has already expired..

Sorry guys:blush:

ETA: no worries, bessie, I still was able to edit so I went ahead and removed my post so as to not cause confusion later when people come to read thru today's posts.. I'll do better from now on :shame:

 

[3doglady]

Wow This is so interesting. Thanks for all the info.

 

[pearl]

A: Not likely, unless there is a transfer of a scent article(s).

Haven't been able to read all through today's post. Apologize if this has been discussed. What are "scent particles?" Would this be like molecules of decomposition gases hanging around in the air?

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

I thought I'd point out that LG's mother made a post yesterday to her Facebook page,
linking to the ‘A light from the shadows’ Telegraph article.
Her post and the comments it's generated are quite touching.

:heartbeat: raying: :heartbeat: