GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #14

[bessie]

Yes, it would be highly unusual. On the other hand, young mothers that discover their toddlers have accidentally drowned in the swimming pool usually don't bury them in vacant lots and then claim the child was kidnapped for weeks, but apparently that indeed does happen!

The question was about aggravated assault. If they knew there was an aggravated assault how is it they didn't seem to know how she died? Isn't it normal to present the method of murder to the Grand Jury? If they are trying to convince a grand jury that the defendant committed a heinous killing would they really say "you don't need to know HOW he did it, we know but we won't tell you, just indict the him for murder".

Not always. Quite often murder cases proceed sans a body.

http://www.nobodycases.com/no_body2.pdf

 

[bessie]

We have read and there has been "talk" that some of the parts were cut out on the torso. End of story. Hate even saying this. I am sure MPD has the right suspect, and so a Mercer law grad is outsmarting the police. Just because there isn't evidence or so some people think doesn't mean the suspect in custody isn't the right person. This is what I do not like about the justice system. And the suspect is getting off that many people discuss him on this site.

Respectfully, GeorgiaSunshine, McD isn't outsmarting anyone, IMO. Failing to persuade the court to lower his bond, he's been incarcerated for over a year now with a death sentence hanging over his head. Doesn't sound like the brightest crayon in the box to me.

As for evidence, grand juries don't indict without it.

 

[Backwoods]

We have read and there has been "talk" that some of the parts were cut out on the torso. End of story. Hate even saying this. I am sure MPD has the right suspect, and so a Mercer law grad is outsmarting the police. Just because there isn't evidence or so some people think doesn't mean the suspect in custody isn't the right person. This is what I do not like about the justice system. And the suspect is getting off that many people discuss him on this site.

I think that if Stephen McDaniel is the person who killed Lauren, the evidence will be there. I just don't see how it could not be.

 

[Sonya610]

Here we go.

http://law.onecle.com/georgia/17/17-10-30.html

http://law.onecle.com/georgia/16/16-5-24.html


http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/the-crime-of-aggravated-battery-in-georgia

http://law.onecle.com/georgia/17/17-10-30.html

Bessie those are all good references however when I read them I interpret them as talking about premortem injuries to the victim.

If the dismemberment was postmortem (and I think most assume it was) then that would be classified as mutilation of a corpse, not aggravated assault. Postmortem mutilation of the body also wouldn't qualify for the death penalty, dismemberment isn't that terribly unusual and i don't recall anyone being executed solely because of it.

Accidental Death and Dismemberment Insurance is common, it means if you die OR if you lose the use of a limb or body part while ALIVE.

 

[bessie]

Re-posting for clarity

Georgia Code - Criminal Procedure - Title 17, Section 17-10-30

(b) In all cases of other offenses for which the death penalty may be authorized, the judge shall consider, or he shall include in his instructions to the jury for it to consider, any mitigating circumstances or aggravating circumstances otherwise authorized by law and any of the following statutory aggravating circumstances which may be supported by the evidence:

(7) The offense of murder, rape, armed robbery, or kidnapping was outrageously or wantonly vile, horrible, or inhuman in that it involved torture, depravity of mind, or an aggravated battery to the victim;

http://law.onecle.com/georgia/17/17-10-30.html

Georgia Code Crimes and Offenses - Title 16, Section 16-5-24

(a) A person commits the offense of aggravated battery when he or she maliciously causes bodily harm to another by depriving him or her of a member of his or her body, by rendering a member of his or her body useless, or by seriously disfiguring his or her body or a member thereof.

http://law.onecle.com/georgia/16/16-5-24.html

Depriving the victim of a member of his body may refer to the separation of the member from the body (as in dismemberment, amputation, or removal), or it may refer to the loss of the use of the member. Ganas v. State, 245 Ga. App. 645 (2000)

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/the-crime-of-aggravated-battery-in-georgia

Bessie those are all good references however when I read them I interpret them as talking about premortem injuries to the victim.

If the dismemberment was postmortem (and I think most assume it was) then that would be classified as mutilation of a corpse, not aggravated assault. Postmortem mutilation of the body also wouldn't qualify for the death penalty, dismemberment isn't that terribly unusual and i don't recall anyone being executed solely because of it.

Accidental Death and Dismemberment Insurance is common, it means if you die OR if you lose the use of a limb or body part while ALIVE.

Sorry, Sonya. I thought my post was pretty straight forward. If you've assumed all injuries were postmortem, however, then I can see why you would be confused. Frankly, I'm not sure why anyone would make that assumption since neither the autopsy report nor any description of the wounds has been released to the public. I'm strongly inclined to agree with you that mutilation of a corpse is not included in the definition of aggravated battery, and therefore not an aggravating circumstance to felony murder in Georgia. Nevertheless, the state is seeking the death penalty, and it appears aggravated battery is the basis.

It's true that at the time of the indictment, the cause of death was unknown to the grand jury. I think some have interpreted that to mean the COD cannot be determined. We don't know that to be true, afaik. In some instances, a preliminary determination of COD is withheld because multiple injuries exist, any one of which on its own could be mortal. I don't know that's the case here, but it's a possibility. Also, keep in mind that under forensic examination, antemortem injuries often can be distinguished from postmortem injuries.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8784990

http://www.fsijournal.org/article/0379-0738%2896%2901938-X/abstract

http://shs.westport.k12.ct.us/forensics/07-injuries/antemortem_&_postmortem_injuries.htm

 

[Sonya610]

Sorry, Sonya. I thought my post was pretty straight forward. If you've assumed all injuries were postmortem, however, then I can see why you would be confused. Frankly, I'm not sure why anyone would make that assumption since neither the autopsy report nor any description of the wounds has been released to the public.

Just seems like a whole lot of things are kept "secret" in this case. To me the state's case has fired off the Hinky Meter since early on. We read about murder investigations all the time on this site, the cause of death is almost always announced early on in the investigation.

I think the aggravated battery charge is based on the assumption that if he indeed killed her, then he must have committed aggravated battery in some way (which makes sense). Other than poisoning I think most all murders would involve it.

You probably follow more trials and murder cases than I do, how many times has the cause of death been kept a secret before the trial when they DEFINITELY knew what the cause of death was? Seeing as how the majority of the body has never been recovered it seems quite likely they do not know.

 

[Indy Anna]

Just seems like a whole lot of things are kept "secret" in this case. To me the state's case has fired off the Hinky Meter since early on. We read about murder investigations all the time on this site, the cause of death is almost always announced early on in the investigation.

I think the aggravated battery charge is based on the assumption that if he indeed killed her, then he must have committed aggravated battery in some way (which makes sense). Other than poisoning I think most all murders would involve it.

You probably follow more trials and murder cases than I do, how many times has the cause of death been kept a secret before the trial when they DEFINITELY knew what the cause of death was? Seeing as how the majority of the body has never been recovered it seems quite likely they do not know.

BBM I've actually seen quite a few cases on WS in which the COD is not revealed. That's one bit of info that only the real killer is privy to. A slip of the tongue by the killer can incriminate him, or the validity of a confession can be verified by the details the confessor gives. In the latter case, the killer can't later claim the confession was forced.

 

[pearl]

Putting this thread back on the front page.

 

[pearl]

Bumping up. Don't want this thread on the third page.

 

[tomkat]

The DA can take the death penalty off the table, Winters did that in at least two cases this year. The Grand Jury signs off on the murder indictment thing, and then the DA decides whether or not to pursue it as a death penalty case. I personally think it would up the chances of a conviction if the jury is on the fence.



I don't see that happening. First of all this is NOT the only case where Mercer grads are on both sides, I would bet MOST of the cases that are tried in Bibb are that way!

Secondly there are political concerns here, if a special prosecutor were assigned a good portion of the public could get VERY angry, some folks already resent the fact that the story gets so much coverage when there are lots of black on black murders in Macon that don't. Special prosecutors are for the benefit of special people, if you get my meaning. Besides why would they need one? Certainly not due to corruption, maybe incompetence, but you can be sure the DA really WANTS to win the case, and in November he could easily be voted out anyway.

Thirdly I think the defense wants the trial to stay in Bibb, sure there has been a lot of coverage but I have heard that the demographics here can favor the defense. I believe it is up to the defense to ask for a change of venue and they have not done so.

These towns, in the macon vicinity, may be large or growing fast, but still tend to have small town politics

 

[pearl]

Still here for this thread.

 

[tomkat]

Just seems like a whole lot of things are kept "secret" in this case. To me the state's case has fired off the Hinky Meter since early on. We read about murder investigations all the time on this site, the cause of death is almost always announced early on in the investigation.

I think the aggravated battery charge is based on the assumption that if he indeed killed her, then he must have committed aggravated battery in some way (which makes sense). Other than poisoning I think most all murders would involve it.

You probably follow more trials and murder cases than I do, how many times has the cause of death been kept a secret before the trial when they DEFINITELY knew what the cause of death was? Seeing as how the majority of the body has never been recovered it seems quite likely they do not know.

well ......how does a murder occur without some kind of aggravated battery prior to that death? Quite obviously she was abused or treated in some manner , to a point, to cause death, whether you see bruises or lacerations or not for lack of physical evidence to the body (because of missing parts)........whether the mutilation occurred before or after, SOMETHING caused her death

 

[Sonya610]

well ......how does a murder occur without some kind of aggravated battery prior to that death? Quite obviously she was abused or treated in some manner , to a point, to cause death, whether you see bruises or lacerations or not for lack of physical evidence to the body (because of missing parts)........whether the mutilation occurred before or after, SOMETHING caused her death

Yes, something caused her death. The prosecution will likely have to prove what that "something" was and prove the defendant did it.

I don't think the evidence is there, and I don't think they can spin whatever they have well enough to convince the jury, not when going up a top knotch defense.

All just my opinion, just like everyone else's opinion.

 

[tomkat]

Yes, something caused her death. The prosecution will likely have to prove what that "something" was and prove the defendant did it.

I don't think the evidence is there, and I don't think they can spin whatever they have well enough to convince the jury, not when going up a top knotch defense.

All just my opinion, just like everyone else's opinion.

She was dismembered,something caused her death, so why does anyone have to prove anything, except the "WHO"

 

[pearl]

My opinion is they will not have any problem solving the who.

 

[Backwoods]

She was dismembered,something caused her death, so why does anyone have to prove anything, except the "WHO"

I guess, in a nutshell, the answer is they have to prove (to a jury, beyond a reasonable doubt), that someone caused her death, and, for a murder charge, on purpose (or, if not on purpose, in the commission of another felonious act) --because theoretically (not saying I think this is what happened, just one very far-fetched example!) she could have died in a car accident with someone -- that person could have panicked and dismembered her to attempt to hide evidence of the event and her death.

 

[Backwoods]

Hey, folks. Have had to take a break from WS recently, for the most part, because just a whole lot of stuff came up in my life (good and bad) and I am still trying to get things under control a little. Have been checking in from time to time, but have had little time usually to log in or post.

Until today, still completely mum on Lauren's case in local media, though, as far as I have seen, and I have been checking regularly. The link directly below this paragraph is to a macon.com/Telegraph story about the DA's race and there is mention of Lauren's case -- but only stemming from comments lobbed by DA Greg Winters' opponent in the upcoming election.

Cooke, Winters face off again in district attorney’s race

http://www.macon.com/2012/10/14/2213276/cooke-winters-face-off-again-in.html


Beyond this type of thing (the opponent bringing it up), I am about ready to make a prediction that either (1) We will not be hearing anything further until after the election in November OR (2) We might hear something pretty interesting just before the election.

I am not right in the thick of things (town talk and such, I mean) like some of the "local" posters in this case are, but I get the feeling, even from my relative isolation, LOL, that the DA race is shaping up to get sort of nasty.

About a week or so ago, I received and participated in a phone "poll" focusing mostly on the DA's race. (While I don't live in Macon/Bibb County, my county is part of the Macon Judicial Circuit ... so it's "my" DA, too.) The poll was rather...strange, let's say, and I kept thinking I should make time to log in here and post about it, but I did not know exactly what to say about it, actually... it was that strange. I happened to run across some coverage on macon.com the other night, though -- seems that poll has made the news. So in lieu of describing my experience with the phone call at this moment, I'm posting the link to that macon.com coverage about the poll:

Winters, Cooke spar over poll phone calls

http://www.macon.com/2012/10/08/2205865/winters-upset-over-false-poll.html

Many commenters on macon.com are characterizing the poll as a push poll. On this topic, here's info from and a link to the wikipedia entry on "push poll", if anyone needs a reference (kind of embarrassed to admit it, but I really sort of did need one!):

A push poll is an interactive marketing technique, most commonly employed during political campaigning, in which an individual or organization attempts to influence or alter the view of respondents under the guise of conducting a poll. ... The term is also commonly used in a broader sense to refer to legitimate polls that aim to test political messages, some of which may be negative.

Push poll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I will say, FWIW, that the call I received was lengthy and did include some "negative" statements about both candidates. The statements I heard about Winters and the responses that were options were not exactly as given in the macon.com story, but were somewhat similar. I truly don't know quite what to make of it. I did respond to all the statements by pretty much saying, "Well, if that is a true statement -- and I don't know that it is -- then ..." (and then gave my response).

 

[tomkat]

My opinion is they will not have any problem solving the who.

If they have the right "WHO", I hope not!


Backwoods, I hope all is well with you, sorry about your troubles!

If someone felt the need to dismember someone after an "accident causing the death" they would probably also be the "WHO" since, in my opinion, scared that bad to dismember another human and spread the parts all over God only knows where, they would seem quite guilty in mind because they felt the need to hide it and becasue to dismember someone, IMO, speaks volumes about them anyway

 

[Backwoods]

If they have the right "WHO", I hope not!


Backwoods, I hope all is well with you, sorry about your troubles!

If someone felt the need to dismember someone after an "accident causing the death" they would probably also be the "WHO" since, in my opinion, scared that bad to dismember another human and spread the parts all over God only knows where, they would seem quite guilty in mind because they felt the need to hide it and becasue to dismember someone, IMO, speaks volumes about them anyway

bbm: Thanks, tomkat, that's sweet of you. I'm OK -- nothing terrible has happened, just a whole avalanche of different kinds of "stuff" coming at once, kind of got overwhelmed there for a bit.

 

[GeorgiaSunshine]

To keep the thread up and to make a speculation, I finally just started watching Dexter from Episode 1, Season 1. I have always been an HBO person, but we just got Showtime with our new package. Wow!! Is all I can say. Has been very disturbing to watch as I believe I read an account on the other site about Dexter from SMD, and how it was rumored and I do not know if ever made true that there is Walmart Video evidence of Smd purchasing heavy rope and ponchos, which makes me cringe because Season 1 of Dexter is all about ponchos, draining body of blood, mutilation of parts etc. I have had a really hard time watching, as it all seems too coincidental. And how cleanly and neatly Dexter does things to not be traced.